Hi guys - I recently won a Mannlicher Schoenauer sporter in 8x57 and my gunsmith (TooManyTools here) suggested I should post it up on the Forum due to it's very unique feature.

It appears to be a former Greek military M/S converted to a sporting rifle by Waffen-Jung, a gun shop near Stuttgart, Germany.

The interesting feature is a button on the bottom of the stock that, when pushed, releases the spring activated cheek rest from the stock. I've attached photos of the mechanism so you can check them out. The hole on the right side is for part of the apparatus to move into when the stock is raised.

I shot it last weekend and it did fine. I'd love to get the stock redone, but don't want to compromise its authenticity.

If anyone sees anything else that you find distinctive about this rifle, please feel free to comment. I'd love to get an idea of when this work might have been done, and what the proofs on the barrel shank indicate.

Best - NMCollektor

MANNLICHER PHOTOS

I'm certainly no expert, but I believe this is a factory original that has been modified. I have an original 1903, had a modified 1903(similar to yours), and have a sporterized Greek. Ownership is really the extent of my expertise.

Well that might explain the other odd thing about this rifle which I forgot to mention... The magazine will only take 2 rounds.

Perhaps I should try 6.5 M/S rounds in it and see if all 5 will load?

Does the action have the bolt hold down spring tension spring (flat spring) set in the right rear bridge of the recv'r?

I think I can see it there in the one pic.
The commercial actions have that,,the Greek and Breda Military actions do not.

It looks like a commercial M/S with one of the German commercial adj cheek piece options. The DRGM (Patented)# on the hardware seems to indicate that.
It has a Repair Proof (Crown/R) with the 7.9x57 cal marking which would be correct for a rechambered piece.

The carbine may have been a 1908 M/S in 8x56M/S and then converted to 8x57Mauser by a simple rechamber,
Can't know that now as the orig ring markings are gone. A scope base was dovetailed thru there and then filled. The entire area filed true and then some simple engraving added.
Being a 1908 Model in 8x56M/S caliber originally is just my guess.

One way to check if it's a 1903 commercial M/S is that those used a bbl length of 19".
The 1908 M/S (and the 1905 and 1910 carbines) used bbls with a length of 20".

(Both of these measurements are 'American' tape measurments. The actual lengths are just a bit under these and are a clean metric length.
But there is enough of a difference betw an orig 1903 and the other 3 to be able to pick them out)


That rechambering to 8x57 solves that particular issue, but the rotary magazine will usually still not accept the slightly different case size of the 8x57 freely.
The shoulder of the 8x57 is further forward than the 8x56M/S. As a consequence the round sits at a bit of a nose up angle when loaded into the mag.

You usually get 2, sometimes 3 into the magazine but then the bullet tips begin to engage and jam against the bullet guide ring at the front of the magazine because of the upward angle and that's as far as you get.

Remove the magazine assembly from the rifle and you can see the guide ring at the front of the assembly. It's the hoop type ring at the very front. It is removable by way of two small screws that have their heads filed flush with the box at the bottom.
Disassemble the magazine, remove the swivel floor plate by pushing the flat spring staple out from under the peg on the inside,
Pull the spring loaded rotor up and out.
You can see the flush screws that hold the ring on the bottom of the box if only by their screw slots showing.

Thinning that ring from the inside to provide more room for the bullet(s) to move by it is one way to improve feeding in these instances.
Another is to reload the ammo and use lighter weight bullets. They are shorter and the ogive will not touch the ring.
You can sometimes seat the heavier bullets deeper to give the same effect.
Seating deeper should be done w/ reducing the load slightly.

You sometimes have to adj the feed ramp and cartridge guide for a new case/caliber too,,but not always. It doesn't take much if the change isn't all that drastic.

Thank you for the reply. That's great info. I hadn't considered a M1908, but that would explain a lot.

Your explanation of the rounds jamming is exactly what was happening. It would load 2 spitzer rounds without issue but no more. It also wouldn't load Remington round nose rounds at all.

I'll check the bolt hold spring this weekend and see if it is present.

I just added a bit of info re: barrel length on orig 1903 vs 1908 carbines.
Might be a way to tell what they started out with.

quote:

Originally posted by 2152hq:
I just added a bit of info re: barrel length on orig 1903 vs 1908 carbines.
Might be a way to tell what they started out with.

Thank you! Assuming I'm measuring the barrel correctly (from the muzzle to the beginning of the shank)it measures 19."

More info - it does have the the bolt hold down spring tension spring, making it a commercial action.

I also tried an 8x56 round, which of course wouldn't chamber, but also would not feed into the magazine at all. It seems the shoulder, which is very different from an 8x57JS, was the issue.

As Hemingway described the 1903 in Islands In The Stream,"The little Mannlicher with the 18" bbl. that they don't sell anymore." I love mine.I have owned all the other originals,1905,1908,1910 but sold them off after the shine was off but I would never take for my 1903.

NMCollektor, whatever her genetic heritage, she is just a beautiful rifle. Congratulations from three hours south of you.

Thank you, Bill. I've learned some more about it since my original post.

I tried the magazine last night and it would chamber all 5 rounds of 6.5 M/S, leading me to conclude it must be a converted 1903.

The bolt is numbered, but does not match. It is likely from a M1908 (8x56).

Most interestingly, the engraved piece on the top of the receiver ring appears to be a fill-in plug for an older, earlier scope mount base, of dovetail style, on the receiver ring. This was probably done when the receiver was re-barreled, in 1957 by Waffen Jung, with the new mount base, installed much further ahead, on the barrel.

Hmmm,the bolt face of a 1903 is different from a 1908.THe bolt might fit in the action (maybe) but the chambering + thus extraction of the cases might be a "chinese fire drill)e.g.or as Jeff Cooper called it, Father's Day in Harlem.WE all remember him for his disquenense + elogonce in verbage.I personally find the .256 a top drawer calibre.

Well, it chambers and fires fine, so perhaps it is an adapted M1903 bolt as well.

Hey if it works it works.Who knows what was possibly done to it in the past.I love that calibre.

http://www.germanhuntingguns.c...wy-ludwig-of-berlin/

Schiwy built a number of rifles with the adjustable cheekpiece for various scopes. Hermann Gøring had some of them also,

Don't you know that some G.I. scored liberating Goering's rifle collection?

Yes i know,but it was mostly higher officers that went away with them,some of them as some of double rifles never fired after capture by their owners. I know his .250 -3000 Kurtz Mauser is in Sweden that is depicted in the article also.

There used to be an old retired bootmaker in Lampassass that in war 2 liberated enough schutzen rifles with their die sets to fill his basement. I saw them as he used to make my boots. When he was dying in the hospital his son who was on drugs went in + cleaned him out. Who knows where they went but it's a safe bet where the money went.

That is awful, the Schuetzen rifkes are well built and high quality and accurate as few others.

I have a US friend who still is in remorse of not buying several Luftwaffe drillings with case in the 80s for a low price.

I saw a MS in 9,3 here in Norway online, with Mauaer type sidemount. Drilled it too much and wrong mount for it sadly.

Hope to find a FS 6,5 one day.

Per, I love my 6.5x54 M/S. I don't know about the importation rules to Norway are but there are usually some on Gunsinternational.com.

Its import papers and for hunting 6 guns in the wardobe it is for that . And i have approved papers for drilling laying around ,saving up dole. I recently traded 2 rifles for that papers and a R93 in .308 and .375 . But i will see for one one day, can live with a 9,5x57 also if no else turns up.

I have had all the early M/S rifles, 1903,1905,1908,+ 1910. I have only kept the 1903. I have played with the others though. The model 1910 in cal. 9.5x56/57 is essentially a rather anemic .375. When H+H came out with theirs in 1913 it put a death knell on the 1910 but it is fun to play with. The brass is easy to form + the 375 molds work well for casting your own bullets. I would limit myself to small game, however.

I took my Model 1910 out deer hunting last season and bagged two deer with one shot. Don't ask me how. I can't figure it out myself, but all I know is I fired one shot with the 9.5X57 and ended up with two dead deer (both does). I only shoot does. I reserve the bucks for my guests. I have no use for another trophy.

Yep, one buck can service a lot of does. That's what I meant by small game; deer + related. I would never recommend it for D.G.

IIRC, Norman, J.A.Hunter used to deliberately get his buffalo in line and more than once got two with one shot.

That can work depending on the caliber. I wouldn't try it of buff with an M/S 1910.

Yeah, NC, I think he used a db .450NE, with solids, of course.

Now that would be acceptable. Concerning line yup shots I have an old hunting buddy that when hunting deer, watches them through his scope to see when they exhale their breathe + then takes his shot. With no air in the lungs, they don't go very far.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
I took my Model 1910 out deer hunting last season and bagged two deer with one shot. Don't ask me how. I can't figure it out myself, but all I know is I fired one shot with the 9.5X57 and ended up with two dead deer (both does). I only shoot does. I reserve the bucks for my guests. I have no use for another trophy.

I've known that to happen when the two deer are standing side by side.

I enjoyed the photos too. Be Well. Packy