G/Day folks

I have a soft spot for Lee Enfield's. I had a lovely No1 Mk3 unissued rifle that I shot at the range and occasionly hunted with for years but recently sold it to a mate to help finance this Rifle.

Things are slowly starting to happen with this No1 Mk3 conversion to 303.35 / 35 Territory. I've been plagued with delays, mostly with Shipping. The cost has been mounting also but I have this covered, should not be any surprises now. This build is adding up to an indecent amount of money to spend on a 1942 Lithgow Sporter. Not concerned as I have wanted a customised Wildcat cartridge SMLE for over 20 years.

I'm quickly learning to halve the delivery time I'm originally told, add 5 then double it for delivery.

I ordered my barrel from a local Aussie company, Total Solution Engineering in early september - it arrived this week.

Recknagel Iron Sights where ordered in early September - they where backordered and dispatched in 3 shipments, received the last of the order this week

Ordered my scope mount in late September, it seems to have been lost in transit. I'd like to thank Richard from Special Interest Arms for despatching another no questions asked. If the US postal and Austrlian service's do their job it will be here late next week.

I can't afford a decent scope and quick detatch scope rings right now but wanted the scope mount fitted when the rest of the rifle is being done. What I like about the SIA mount is that it's grooved to allow use of Iron sight in the mean while. Plan is to have the Rifle set up for when my ageing eyes no longer allow me to hunt with open sights.

I am using a No1 Mk3 action that I swapped in exchange for some custom leatherwork off a mate who was using this heavily bubbered 1942 Lithgow as a knock about scrub rifle. The bore was black, quite amaazing it shot as well as it did.

I've picked up an as new never fitted ATI synthetic stock real cheap that will suffice until I can afford a nicely figured / checkered timber stock along the lines of a Lee Speed.

I have used a set of .358 Winchester dies that have a tapered expander to neck up some Remington brass, they all necked up fine. The cases shortened as expected when I necked them up and I have settled on a trim to length of 55.60mm / 2.188" The OAL 76.90mm / 3.027" I'll mess about with this once I have the finished rifle.




I'm pretty disappointed in the quality of the .303 brass on the market, seems very thin. I have 40 once fired Highland .303 cases that I've necked up also - it is quite a deal thicker and seems higher quality. I wish I could buy this Highland brass locally but it is not available in Australia. I have supplied my Gunsmith with several Remington brass dummy cartridges for him to set up the neck and throat on.

I have supplied the Gunsmith with a set of Lee RGB dies that will be reamed when my chamber is done and the 35 cal fittings from the .358 Win dies will be swapped across. I need to get a neck only sizing die, again I'm thinking a .358 Winchester die could be used with no modification and carefull adjustment

I am using 225grain Sierra Gamekings for the initial load development. I've found some old load data using IMR 3031, 41 gn under a 208 gr cast bullet for 2150fps and have been supplied load data a couple of other fella's I've tracked down that have 303.35's are using. ADI AR2208 seems to be the powder of choice and 42 gr should give me about 2200fps.

I've also researched some .303 220grain bullet loads for cross reference. I'll be backing the Data off a little and looking for safe accurate loads. Not interested in hot rodding.

My Gunsmith tells me I should have it in 8 weeks , so applying my new rule 8 - 4 + 5 = 9 x 2 = 18 so I'll have it March next year. - I hope not, I'll kid myself and say I'll have it mid January 2011.

regards Jacko

Ah, this must be that project! Sounds interesting. I've wanted an SMLE in .458 American for a while now but haven't wanted to shell out for the action work. My brother has a Navy Arms Summit rifle (No1 in .45-70) that we dropped off at the smith today to be reamed out to .45-90. That should be some fun. Kind of makes me regret selling him the rifle...

If you find a source for a stock set that's Lee Speed-ish, let me know. I'm looking for some spare wood for the Lee Speed I'm restoring.

I was only talking today to an all things Firearms knowledgeable mate of mine about the merits of a single shot bolt action 45.90 over a 45.70 myself today. This link to the Enfield forum has a thread about converting a SMLE to 45.70
http://www.enfield-rifles.com/...itle=4570-conversion. Plenty of other Enfield info there.

I have found unfinished Lee Enfield stock sets at Boyd's stocks. There is a fella getting back to me re Lee Speed like stocks sets, I'll will let you know. I'm still a while off shelling out the money for a timber stock though, scope and quick release mounts first. My eyes are starting to fade and I am being dragged kicking and screaming away from shooting with open sights, hence the detachable scope plan.

regards Jacko

Jacko303.35: Try 30-40 Krag brass to get thicker necks. But they are rated with a lower pressure limit than 303.

Jacko303.35: Did a "What if" on my reloading program for your case useing your meausements on a standard 303 case and came up with a case capacity of 58.1grs of water. Useing a 24' barrel with the bullet,powder and OAL that you listed it came out at 85% load density with 42.6gr 2024fps @35.3K CUP of pressure. A 95% load would be 47.6gr for 2263 and 44K cups. The program give a optimal load of 90.3% 45.2gr. 2143fps @ 39.5K CUP. The 303 case is rated SAMMI 45K CUP and CIP 46K CUP. You can find the case capacity by puting a primer in the case and weighing it,fill the the case with water weight it, and that difference is the case capacity. My program can bring out loads for 17 different powders with that bullet. If are interested let me know what the capasity is as that and barrel lenght are the most important info that I need.

quote:

I was only talking today to an all things Firearms knowledgeable mate of mine about the merits of a single shot bolt action 45.90 over a 45.70 myself today.

Believe it or not the 45-90 will fit in the mag and feed just fine. 3 shots down and 1 in the chamber. Evidently that was the problem with the Summit rifles. They wouldn't feed the 70 right (a little short for the mag and they'd nose dive) but once they were converted to the 90 they were just fine.

Thanks for the info Fat Albert - very helpfull. I will contact you with my case capacity shortly, I'm using a 22" barrel. I have noted the ballistics you have worked out are a little different to the ballistics / load data I've been handed some of which is actual and some worked up on a load programme. Quite Intriguing but not surprising that your approximates are a little slower - I doubt a Deer or Feral Boar would be able to tell the difference with a bullet in the boiler room.

I have never seen 30.40 Krag brass for sale, never seen a Rifle so chambered but it is definetly good info to know it's possible to form .303 brass from Krag brass. I had heard they where very similar cartridges.


Bigfatts - Gotta admit I would love a 45.90 Enfield. We did talk about it yesterday. Just to motivate me my mate gave me a 45.70 cartridge loaded with a 560gr cast bullet to keep on my workbench and think how cool a 45.90 cartridge would be in a bolt action sporter. I'll be watching to see the results from the rechambering.

regards Jacko

Big Fatts,

did you know that Val Forgett II formed the "Gibbs Rifle Company" several years ago and was offering SMLE's in 45-90?
They work as well as a Siamese Mauser and have the detachable magazine. Think 10-round magazines for 8 or 9 capacity.
Or a P-14 for five.

Rich
DRSS

I did a 458 American on a SMLE 2A action...all the info is on this forum...if you're interested do a search...I covered all the problems I ran into and the solutions. Rifle or Handloaded mag had a very good article on the #4 convertion to 45-90 including how to solve the mag/feeding problem.

EDIT ADDED...HANDLOADER #170, July/August 1994 entitled "The Lee Enfield 45-90 Express", Pg 36, Brian Montgonery

The 458 Belted Mag case is a much better and easier way to go unless you already have a Gibbs 45-70 Smelly...no problem with modifying the magazine...also a shortened RUM case works well.

The 308 2A 12 round mag holds 8 458 Americans down maxed out, but 6 is much better weight and balance wise. I can shoot 45-70 thru 45-100 cases single loaded at 3.02" COAL and also belted mag cases out to Lott length with the same COAL.

There are a ton of ways to go with the SMLE...clear up to 50 cal...an not a lot of fancies to dude one up.

Stay within the pressure limits of the receiver and you will be OK.

Jacko...Nice rig...I have an ATI stock on my 458 Smelly. I always thought a 338, 35, 9.3 or 375 cal on the 303 would be a very nice piece of work. The 30-40 case will handle all the pressure you require and a bit more...the 30-40 Krag receiver was the limiting factor not the brass.

Keep the pressure within reason, match your sizer to your chamber as far as shoulder setback and base squeezing is conserned and you will still get many reloads per case. Have your smith polish the sizer to get 0.001-0.002" sizing on the base.

You might try any one of the following...the bases are within a couple thou of the 303 0.460" base size...38-72 Win, 40-65 Sharps Straight, 40-70 Sharps straight, 40-72 Win and 405 Win. You will have to trim some and depending on the actual chamber dimensions a bit of grunt on the sizing portion or a small swelling. Shouldn't hurt a bit at the pressures you should be running.

Luck

Evening folks. Called into Pine Rivers Gunshop this morning for a further progress report on how my 303.35 is going.

2 weeks ago they had not started it, today the rifle is sitting in a job tray, with everything done except the barrel and action blued. Drilled and tapped for the Recknagel Sights, scope mount, barrel docked to 22", crowned and most importantly chambered. Its all been fitted together and checked out fine and the synthetic stock's barrel channel opened out. They will not be blue it for a few more weeks yet as they have a couple more jobs that will be ready for the Blueing tank soon. So with luck I'll have shortly after Christmas.

Alan was telling me this morning that he run a file over the base of the Lee RGB dies and it did not touch it. He said he is not willing to run a reamer into the dies but instead will use either a masonry bit sharpened to a specific angle to assist with reaming the die or a Titanium drill bit. He told me the neck / throat of my chamber is .385 and the reamer was .380. From memory my Remington Brass Dummy rounds where .378 / .379. Remington brass is very thin, I have some Highland brass that is much thicker but it's not available locally, you must buy it as loaded .303 ammo.

A chap who has a 303.35 and given me some advice and loads warned me the only issue he has with his rifle is that the mob in South Australia that chambered his rifle have the neck / throat quite oversize and his fired cases are .388 / .389 so he has to work his brass more than he likes to neck size.

Still no photo's, when the Rifles finished. I remembered the barrels No 5 profile much larger than it actually is which is somewhat of a relief as I do like a little heft in my Rifles for Off hand shooting but not full on muzzle heavy which is what my hazy memeory had imagined in the dimness of time.

I have been thinking about attempting to make my own Timber stock from Queensland Maple as a link to the Rifles past, perhaps join the local woodworking club etc so I have access to quaity tools. I would try to replicate a Lee Speed stock. In the mean while I will reshape and refinish the military stockset and see if I'm happy with this instead of the Synthetic stock as a stopgap.

A mate has stepped in and attempted to motivate my in next project - he gave me 50 rounds of loaded 45.70 ammo , 90 odd once fired cases, a red bullet lube and a hundred or so 500 gr cast projectiles. AAAAAGGGGGHHHHH - The paints not even dry on this one.

After less than 12 hours my memory is fading, should have written the details down at the time so if something does not ring true it's my lack of knowledge and my memory.

A chap thats lives about 100 miles from me has offered I spend some time with him and he'll teach me the ins and outs of bullet casting. He has a .359 230 gr mould which sounds about right for this rifle. He also has offered me the use of some of his other moulds for my .357 mag and .44 mag Lever rifles.

There is so much to learn about these old skills and the rifles they are used around, I'm really enjoying the learning curve and the generous offers and skill sharing I've received by posting on this forum and others.

regards Jacko

This reminds me of a project I completed for a customer about 10 years ago. He supplied a No 1 Mk 3* action and I completed a 303-35 for him. For the chamber reamer, I used a 35 remington reamer and cut the chamber to the measured depth of 2.158" from the end of the barrel. Adjusted the thread extension for headspace on a 303Br gauge. Playing with the 35 Remington load dies adjusted up in the press, expanded the brass, annealed the necks and used 35 Remington data as a starting guideline.

I have been thinking about building one of these for myself for years. I have a real nice receiver and an early No.1 Mk.1 bolt with the lever safety sitting in the safe just for a neat project like this...

Tony

I have a Martini Sporter (Watson Bros) rebored to 35 from 303 and the chamber simply recut to a 303-35.
The rebore work is done but the rest of the restoration is awaiting my time.
Brass can be neck sized and loaded on 35Rem dies, which I have. I can make use of all my left over 35Rem bullets too.
Should be a fun shooter.

I've always had a love for the No1 SMLE but never built a big bore on one. Maybe about time before time runs out.

Ever since I saw "ZULU" I have wanted Martini Henry, lately I've been thinking of a 45.70 or 45.90 Martini Henry as my next project. We'll see as for similar money I can buy myself a 1874 Sharps replica.

Since I started this project rolling I have discovered the Confederate Sabre family of .303 Wildcats. They are simply Shortened 30.06 dies. You rechamber by running in a 30.06 reamer short, run the .303 brass through the shortened dies which leaves you with the 30.06 neck and shoulder. Fireform and you also get decreased case taper. Same principal applies to 25.06 and 35 Whelen. This would have been a more convienient conversion, perhaps resulted in longer cases life and it definetly has greater case capacity. Apparently they feed from the magazine just fine despite the straighter case taper.

I have wanted this Wildcat for 20 years so I do not regret choosing it at all. Who knows if it does not prove satisfactory I may be able to rechamber to the 35 Confederate Sabre version.

regards Jacko

Jack, that 35 Whelan conversion is being discussed on AHN in Australia now.

As you said use a 35 Whelan reamer cutting the chamber short at 303 case length. Dimensions are just about right for the width at the base

Load the original 303 case with 35 pills and fireform.

I'm told it actually improves the 303/35 case shoulder and the old 303 taper, for more case capacity.

You can even use 35 Whelan dies you just need to get them trimmed, about 1/3 of an inch back to 303 length.

You will loose one in the magazine because of the improved shoulder, but that still leaves you with 9.

For the old 303's Any 30-06 reamer/case set up will work for this type of wildcat, 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 338-06 35 Whelan all would work well. And you can use the dies as well. Short reamer depth when cutting the chamber and trim the dies, easy

Now that's a bit of food for thought. I might post something on the wildcat forum, see who has done it.

Regards S&F

Thanks S&F, I've contributed on AHN to that thread. Sometimes I astound myself with how thick I can be! I had only considered the 25.06 30.06 and 35 Whelen. I'd not given a thought to the other variants. It's cetainly an intriging option for breathing life back into a SMLE.

regards Jacko

I have a no.4 in 303 epps i have been playing around with for years,the barrel is nearly buggered now and i had been thinking of getting it rebored to 35 cal will keep an eye out on how you go ,only got to find some one here in oz who can or will redo the barrel for me

Cost is the limiting factor with aftermarket Lee Enfield barrels, I have over a K invested in my TSI [ MAB ] barrel if you want to include blueing and Recknagel sights. I'm not concerned about this as it is the fullfillment of a long held desire but it sure is a bomb to drop on a $150 SMLE that still shot straight.

With luck I'll have it in a week or 2.

regards Jacko

It's been interesting following your project , I know what you mean on a bit here & there adding up !
I've got a couple of Lee Speeds & the same thing is happening .
Did you consider 8X57R or 7X57R at all looks like 7mm will work easy , but 8mm is a little different & might not feed ?
Im looking at reboring a rusted out 303 & 8mm was a Speedier cal , then on to 375Ex .
The 8mm was 8X50R I think but 8X57R might work ?

Cheers

Sarg, from the start I wanted a 35 cal plus SMLE and did not consider any Lee Speed chamberings or similar. I know little about the in's and out's of Enfield Rifles and much of what I thought could work, would not or at least was inpracticle

regards Jacko

Donnelly's "Handloaders manual of Cartridge Conversions" and "Wildcats of the World" would be two good starting points for finding out just what cases have been wildcatted.

Ch4D online list of dies is a very good place to see what had already been done, and die prices. An email to any one of the reamer makers could get you lots of information on reamer prices and what are the more usefule conversions...and searching the net for "SMLE conversions" or "wildcat conversions".

There are many very good cases that can and/or have been used.

Try to find a 308 Mag and trigger bow to replace the 303 components...the 308 magazine is much easier to convert if you use a rimmless case.

When I was doing my 458 American conversion I checked out the WSM/RUM, 444 and 450 Marlin, Rigby and Gibbs cases...I also checked out many of the larger rimmed blackpowder cases all the way up to 600 NE and found most of them would work in the 308 mag with little to a lot of modifications.

Load from a Disk and QL have built in cartridge design programs.

Seeing that you already have the 35-303 done up almost my recommendation of a standard 350 Rem Mag(basically a 35-458 American or 35-450 Marlin), 35-348 AI, 35-284 go by the wayside, but keep the 350 Rem Mag in mind for a rechamber if you want a bit more whack.

Luck