I was in a local gunshop a couple weeks ago, and a guy came in with a couple rifle he wanted to sell or trade..

One was a Mauser Model B, rebarreled to 30-06 and restocked in a European style stock with Peep sights. a very handsome rifle.

The second was a sporterized 1903 Springfield (High number)also rebarreled, with the most beautiful birds-eye maple stock I have ever seen. But what really got me was the wood to metal fit on that stock was absolutely flawless. It was so tight, if the guy told me the tree grew around it, i would have believed it. The checkering job was also excellent. No runovers, tight border and nice pointed diamonds. looked about like 22 LPI. Truly a magnificent piece of workmanship..

well the Pirate looked them over, and told the guy to hold on while he looked them up (probably went and checked gunbroker for a sporterized mauser and springfield) and came back to the guy and offered him a whopping $300 FOR BOTH if he wanted to sell outright, and $350 if he wanted store credit.

That was mighty white of him, dontcha think? WHAT A GUY!!

The owner was visibly pissed off, and packed up his stuff so fast I couldn't catch him in the parking lot to make him an offer. I would have paid him a grand for both. They were really nice rifles.

I understand dealers have to make a living, and the standard practice (that I was always taught) was to pay half of the going retail. but this was really a low-ball offer. He could have easily offered teh guy twice that. He likely would have still turned it down, but wouldn't have left pissed off.

I don't sell guns to dealers, but that clown gave me a bad impression so I'll likely never go back to his shop for anything else.

What else would you expect from someone who charges interest of 3% per month on a loan?

I have had a long and unhappy marriage with gun shop owners over the years. At the end of the day, they need to be able to pay the bills and feed their families, but so do I. I found that once I really got to know the fella, I could pretty accurately predict what he would offer, and at least then I would not be caught off guard or feel insulted. Pawn shops are usually even worse. Sometimes an owner will low-ball a would-be seller just because he can see that particular rifle sitting in his rack two years from now, and he just doesn't want it gathering dust in the shop.

Cabela's might be the worst at it.

A couple years ago I had a Wildey in 45WM with two magazines, like new.
I went there and talked about a trade. I had looked online, and a store in Texas had one, no box in 44 AutoMag. They were asking $1600. Armed with that information, I went to Boise, where they offered me a store credit of $700.

When I showed the gentleman what they were asking, he informed me that Cabela's policy was not to offer over 60% of Blue Book unless it were an OM 70.

It seems like a lot of whining from people who just do not understand retail sales.

When you factor in the cost of rent/purchase of commercial real estate, advertising, insurances, all of the administrative time to keep up with FFL paperwork and the like. Then if you have employees that's a whole Nother kettle of fish that requires a lot of cash.

Take all of that and combine it with purchasing a used item for cash that you have little demand for, that you have to market and then potentially sit on for years and years before you ever see any form of profit.

I have several friends who own gun stores and only one of them makes what I call a good middle class living from it.

Two of my friends have gun shops as a retirement gig so they're not worried about profit which works out well for them because they don't make any. One of them invested in a quality coffee maker and charges $2 a cup or unlimited daily for $5. That's where all of his business profit comes from.

Fast cash makes fast friends....

ANYTIME someone has to "look up" the value of a gun RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!
He has just unknowingly told you he doesn't know shit about guns.

They have to sit on them, how hot are sporterized mausers, no matter how nice at your local gun shop?

I traded out of a Pasadena Gun Corp mauser I cleaned up and I expected to get offered $200 for it. I got offered $200 for it, and took my business someplace else. I was pissed and then started thinking about what goes into running a gunshop and wasn't really worried about.

Having spent time years ago as a part time employee of a gun shop, I know that my boss was interested in whatever was the "hot" item at the time. As much as I hate to admit it I think bolt guns, no mater how nice they are, are just not the hot item. Sometimes they will give you more on a trade but unless they have a ready market to turn it, there is little or no interest. Guess that's why many of us post things for sale here. At least it gets to a like minded audience.

I had heard that during the first Obama gun buy pandemic dealers were buying 2nd hand ARs for about 3 times their worth and selling them for 5 times what they paid.

Not sure how regional that was.

I've run a shop for 5 years now and bolt guns are definitely the slowest movers and get beat down the most in price. That's why you can't offer much in trade for them. 50% of estimated retail is about right for me. But that is only if in pretty good condition. I traded for a pristine M77 Mk2 Ruger in 7 Mag last year. Gave the guy $300 for it. It still sits here at $375. New would be $700. I'll probably have to give it away.

On the other hand, most buyers don't have issues plunking down $1,700+ for a Benelli semi-auto shotgun. They will also walk over to our boot sales dept. and gladly lay out $190 for a pair of boots that we paid $60 for. Then they will pick up a $400 YETI cooler on the way out and won't flinch. But by God they will try to beat me down on rifle and/or scope.

On-line shops are killers too. It is easy to sell guns cheap when you don't have a brick and mortar store to support. I get poached all the time by buyers who use my expertise and inventory to help them make a buying decision, only then have them order it on-line.

Bobster, I know what you mean, from the standpoint of having briefly worked in a Sportsman's Warehouse hunting department after retiring. The margin on firearms is incredibly slim -- sometimes in the single digits of percentage points -- and buyers will do all they can to beat another $10 out of you on a rifle while happily paying all kinds of mark up on accessories.
Bud's Gun Shop is probably the biggest online "poacher" out there.

I buy a bunch of guns online. I don't consider it cricket to go into a gun shop, handle their merchandise and then go buy the same thing elswhere to save a few bucks. But, that's me.

OTOH, the main reason I buy online is sales tax, which is 8.25% in Texas. Paying the gun shop guy $50 or so for an in hand, can look at it gun is no big deal, but add 8.25% on top of it, and it becomes a deal killer on more expensive guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
I buy a bunch of guns online. I don't consider it cricket to go into a gun shop, handle their merchandise and then go buy the same thing elswhere to save a few bucks. But, that's me.

OTOH, the main reason I buy online is sales tax, which is 8.25% in Texas. Paying the gun shop guy $50 or so for an in hand, can look at it gun is no big deal, but add 8.25% on top of it, and it becomes a deal killer on more expensive guns.

+1

Hailed it Gato we think alike.

The biggest advantage of buying guns online is sales tax.

The margin on guns is often less than the sales tax.

I am currently done buying guns. But if I start again it will be mainly old military bolts and used guns.

I have a good local pawn shop that does ffl transfers for $20. Also if there are more than one gun he charges less.

I just try running a tab to make him some dollars for guns I buy online and not from him.

I normally give him gun cases and other stuff that he can sell/give with his guns.

Mike

We pay about $35-40ish for a transfer and then recently they now want sales tax, on every sale even if I didn't buy it from a dealer.

Some how this is legal here, and the sales tax has to be in cash.

Hard part is I don't have a choice, as no one else in town is doing transfers anymore.

California you come for the hot women (which doesn't really do much if you are married and faithful) and leave because you are so tired of getting screwed by the state.

I am sorry, but I really don't think individuals are much different from the store owners. Everyone wants something for nothing.

I have had several rifles on the AR classifieds for several weeks. All of them BDLs, albeit in LH, but with quality glass and mounts on them. I have them priced barely above what a new Tupperware stocked Remington would run and I can't get a single bite.

So I really don't think it is just the shop owners...

Now: pawn shop owners are one step below a snake's belly in a wagon rut. They prey on someone down on their luck, and most seem to delight in doing it!

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
I am sorry, but I really don't think individuals are much different from the store owners. Everyone wants something for nothing.

I have had several rifles on the AR classifieds for several weeks. All of them BDLs, albeit in LH, but with quality glass and mounts on them. I have them priced barely above what a new Tupperware stocked Remington would run and I can't get a single bite.

So I really don't think it is just the shop owners...

Now: pawn shop owners are one step below a snake's belly in a wagon rut. They prey on someone down on their luck, and most seem to delight in doing it!

As to the first part of your post, in Texas, in particular, due to the oil patch collapse, times are tough on many hunters and the common guns, albeit nice, are just not going to grab many potential buyers at a fair but not dirt cheap price. I was just talking to a buddy of mine about a mutual friend, 3 or 4 years ago, he was riding high, started his own company providing fracking supplies, made three or $400,000 for a couple of years, pooped it off on big houses with mortgages, trucks, Las Vegas, etc (typical oil patch story). Collapse came, he held out for a year, and lost it all. He is now working at Lowe's.

AFA pawn shop owners go, they are not a charity, they are in a business to make money AND they provide a last ditch service for thousands of people every day that usually have no bank account, and no other resource for quick cash. I am not saying they are all saints, but a good friend of mine owns a pawn shop and his family has been in the business for over 70 years. I've spent a fair amount of time in there, and they treat their "regulars" quite well. OTOH, they've heard every story and every variation of those stories and they are VERY OFTEN complete fabrications to get some more money. There are exceptions, but most pawn shops, if run well, make the owner a decent living, they don't retire early to cruise around on their yachts. If not run well, or they are predatory, they usually go out of business. People who use pawn shops are more discerning than you would think and they go to where they feel they are treated fairly.

I will add that many of the people who pawn items could certainly do better with their finances but many of them either simply don't know how or don't want to or just can't when every cent they've got coming in and often more cents than they've got coming in are going out for everyday living expenses. Along comes a blown transmission or similar disaster from their POV and they are off to the pawn shop if they've got anything to pawn. At the lower incomes, there is a very fine monetary line between having a roof over your head and being homeless. Sad but true.

Let me give you some advice - sell the rifles separate from the scopes. Scopes on rifles are like swimming pools with houses. Buyers always claim they don't like/want them and will try to beat you down. Shop owners don't buy things for nothing. We've got 2 million in inventory and a loan! Hard to turn a profit on 8-12% gross margins.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
I am sorry, but I really don't think individuals are much different from the store owners. Everyone wants something for nothing.

I have had several rifles on the AR classifieds for several weeks. All of them BDLs, albeit in LH, but with quality glass and mounts on them. I have them priced barely above what a new Tupperware stocked Remington would run and I can't get a single bite.

So I really don't think it is just the shop owners...

Now: pawn shop owners are one step below a snake's belly in a wagon rut. They prey on someone down on their luck, and most seem to delight in doing it!

I'd say that the gunshop owner takes, always, a risk that the headspace isn't right and that the thing can't (regardless of bore visual appearance) doesn't shoot for shit. Then he's left with what?

The vendor has the choice to accept the offer or reject it. But at least he's now got a base price that he knows he can get if he goes back. Probloem with guns is the hidden problems that don't show on a first visual inspection.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
I am sorry, but I really don't think individuals are much different from the store owners. Everyone wants something for nothing.

I have had several rifles on the AR classifieds for several weeks. All of them BDLs, albeit in LH, but with quality glass and mounts on them. I have them priced barely above what a new Tupperware stocked Remington would run and I can't get a single bite.

So I really don't think it is just the shop owners...

Now: pawn shop owners are one step below a snake's belly in a wagon rut. They prey on someone down on their luck, and most seem to delight in doing it!

As to the first part of your post, in Texas, in particular, due to the oil patch collapse, times are tough on many hunters and the common guns, albeit nice, are just not going to grab many potential buyers at a fair but not dirt cheap price. I was just talking to a buddy of mine about a mutual friend, 3 or 4 years ago, he was riding high, started his own company providing fracking supplies, made three or $400,000 for a couple of years, pooped it off on big houses with mortgages, trucks, Las Vegas, etc (typical oil patch story). Collapse came, he held out for a year, and lost it all. He is now working at Lowe's.

AFA pawn shop owners go, they are not a charity, they are in a business to make money AND they provide a last ditch service for thousands of people every day that usually have no bank account, and no other resource for quick cash. I am not saying they are all saints, but a good friend of mine owns a pawn shop and his family has been in the business for over 70 years. I've spent a fair amount of time in there, and they treat their "regulars" quite well. OTOH, they've heard every story and every variation of those stories and they are VERY OFTEN complete fabrications to get some more money. There are exceptions, but most pawn shops, if run well, make the owner a decent living, they don't retire early to cruise around on their yachts. If not run well, or they are predatory, they usually go out of business. People who use pawn shops are more discerning than you would think and they go to where they feel they are treated fairly.

I will add that many of the people who pawn items could certainly do better with their finances but many of them either simply don't know how or don't want to or just can't when every cent they've got coming in and often more cents than they've got coming in are going out for everyday living expenses. Along comes a blown transmission or similar disaster from their POV and they are off to the pawn shop if they've got anything to pawn. At the lower incomes, there is a very fine monetary line between having a roof over your head and being homeless. Sad but true.

Very well put.

quote:

Originally posted by Pa.Frank:

well the Pirate looked them over, and told the guy to hold on while he looked them up (probably went and checked gunbroker for a sporterized mauser and springfield) and came back to the guy and offered him a whopping $300 FOR BOTH if he wanted to sell outright, and $350 if he wanted store credit.

being in the biz now ("retirement career")

the sad news is this-
any sporterized rifle that is not "named" or has good provenance is largely dead in the market-

sad but true-
so , you can call the guy a pirate-
but
he is in biz to resell not collect

while the Texas market is down
in general,the national expendable discretionary income is remarkably down as well

we sell locally and nationally-
and
sporterized rifles are down globally-

so
complain as you must-
just do not expect anyone that is following the market closely to pay much for this class of rifle

having collected/traded for 50+ years- as hobby/side biz
I actually do not see a rebound in this sector even if the economy rebounds--
the younger crowd(45 and down) generally just could not care about the sporters

they will buy a correct military rifle on occasion-
however , mostly, they buy synthetic, stainless bolts, AR types, Glock (polymer)type handguns, synthetic shotguns
etc

very, very few even the well funded of this group collect
they are users and generally have little sense of history or craftsmanship


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
ANYTIME someone has to "look up" the value of a gun RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!
He has just unknowingly told you he doesn't know shit about guns.

having owned and sold thousands
having had a diverse/ eclectic collection
that at one time numbered near 1000-

in the current economic flux of this day and age
I must respectfully disagree

I agree, if they have to 'look it up', definitely run away.

Had a friend go to Gander a few years ago to make a trade, he wanted a new Savage lightweight stainless .308. Sticker on it was $575 if I remember correctly. He was trading an excellent condition Remington 788 in 308 and a T/C Contender in .357 Max (12" barrel with a 2-7 weaver scope). They offered him the Savage for both of his guns and $150 + tax. I told him he was nuts, so he said put your money where your mouth is, so I traded even up. Turned around, sold the 788 and had a Contender for $150.

I understand the overhead and need to make money, but there are limits.

Side note - they sometimes mess up on the trades as well. Bought a 20 gauge Browning Citori at the same store, in good shape for $525. Guess the person messed up when they looked it up.

I understand and agree with most of the comments..

I've held an FFL in the distant past, and know how the game is played. I would always ask what the customer wanted for their gun FIRST, then depending on how close they were to half of the going retail price, I may or may not make an offer. More often than not, I would tell the customer that i couldn't come close to their asking price, and would decline to make an offer rather than insult them.

Both of these rifles were exceptional, and to offer $150 each for them was an insult. Both of these rifles could very easily brought 500 bucks each, and quickly. They really were that well executed. In my mind, a truly fair offer for both would have been about $225 to $275 each, and I would have still made money.

and someone made the comment about "charging 3% on a loan" Well, go back and read my original post, I never mentioned a Pawn shop or a loan.

I dropped by a local pawn shop today on a whim just to see what they had on the shelf. What I find pathetic is that they had old, outdated entry level rifles with crappy scopes and crappy triggers selling for the same $ that you can get a new one with a decent scope and adjustable trigger for.. Apparently they dont look this stuff up so well when it is time to place THEIR price tag on them.. And a couple of very average pre 64 Winnys with hacked up stock and made in china scopes for upward of $700.00 each. Needless to say, they are all still there, and 9 times out of 10 I simply use other sources for new acquisitions.

Pawn shop buys are a little like gun show finds. You have to be early into the store or to the tables to be successful. Hard for me because there are retirees and others who have the time to make almost daily runs to see what's new. And being regulars, they often see things in the back before the ticket runs out and have essentially pre-purchased the best stuff. Nothing wrong with a business owner taking care of his best customers.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
ANYTIME someone has to "look up" the value of a gun RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!
He has just unknowingly told you he doesn't know shit about guns.

OK, without using any outside resources, tell me instantly exactly what my XP-100 7mm BR is worth.

To expect someone to make an offer on something like that without checking is ridiculous, and to expect one to know the value of every gun in the world off the top of their heads is even more ridiculous.

first off, I don't have an ffl, but I buy, sell, and trade for my personal satisfaction... I ususally have a couple-3 tables at several regional gunshows... I like nostalgic firearms... and have a decent collection started... that being said, I pay upwards of $50 table at the gunshows, pay for meals, travel and motels... I put a price on my guns, scopes, knives, exotic wood, ammunition and trinkets on my tables... don't like it??... make me an offer, I might take it... same as for pawn shops... don't like their price, make an offer... to most of them, a gun is just something to sell at a profit.. like a lawnmower, extension cord, or a saw... the shops I deal with, will go look at the buying records and usually come back with a decent price... if I buy, great for me, if I don't, maybe next time.. no bad feelings.... at the shows, I see people price shopping, with no mind to make an offer... they are usually the people that slam the sellers, without even making any attempt....

Before colon cancer started limiting what I could do in life, I was a Houston Gun Collectors Ass'n member, and I did our shows three or four times a year. I sold a few odds and ends, a handgun or rifle now and again, and quite a few boxes of my own hard cast bullets. I also bought or traded for several nice things along the way. Typically, asking and buying/selling prices were pretty close in the deals I made.

An anecdote from one of the shows:

I had a man come by my table four times during the first day of one show (they were always on Saturday). He was looking at something, I believe it was a BPCR rifle in 40-65, and I had it priced at $675 for dies, mould, brass, and the rifle.

Well, about 4:30 he showed up again, and I told him basically that he had been to the table four times, so there was obviously something he was interested in. He acknowledged that there was, and pointed at the 40-65. I told him then that if he didn't like my price, he was free to make me a reasonable offer.

His response was that he would give me $300. I told him then in as stern a non-profanity laden response as I could, that he could leave my table and not return; I had given him an opportunity to meet me somewhere in the middle, and he had insulted my intelligence as well as the quality of what I had on the table. I told him in no uncertain terms to leave and not come back.

I will not abide a chiseler, and there are way too many of them out there for my tastes. Alas, I have met a few here on AR, too. I will not name names, but they know whom they are.

I can see how that could be very irritating. I have always tried to price things fairly here and elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
first off, I don't have an ffl, but I buy, sell, and trade for my personal satisfaction... I ususally have a couple-3 tables at several regional gunshows... I like nostalgic firearms... and have a decent collection started... that being said, I pay upwards of $50 table at the gunshows, pay for meals, travel and motels... I put a price on my guns, scopes, knives, exotic wood, ammunition and trinkets on my tables... don't like it??... make me an offer, I might take it... same as for pawn shops... don't like their price, make an offer... to most of them, a gun is just something to sell at a profit.. like a lawnmower, extension cord, or a saw... the shops I deal with, will go look at the buying records and usually come back with a decent price... if I buy, great for me, if I don't, maybe next time.. no bad feelings.... at the shows, I see people price shopping, with no mind to make an offer... they are usually the people that slam the sellers, without even making any attempt....

My one transaction with jimatcat was great. It was maybe a year ago. I didn't "need" the gun, but wanted it. I still haven't done much with it other than pulling the bases off to see the irons better. It shot well, but I need to adjust the irons.

By chance, do you have any 1909 Argentines laying around?

Retail sales is a love-hate relationship. At least in my area where we have only one shop with any firearm inventory to speak of. I buy there periodically because I either need something in a hurry or sometimes just to support a local business. I can buy cheaper online but at the same time I'd be sorry to see them go. On moderately priced guns the difference between retail and sales taxes is often not materially different that the internet price plus shipping plus third party transfer fees.

quote:

By chance, do you have any 1909 Argentines laying around

yes... I have a sporterized DWM 1909, that has been rechambered to 30-06, possibly as a Sarco import from the '70's... haven't pulled it from the stock , so I don't know what the action below the woodline looks like...it has the original bottom metal with the floorplate release in the trigger bow... yours' for $325 plus shipping, and a 1909 action (not DWM) without bottom metal, but not altered either for $250... I need a road trip to Dallas anyway...

(condensed version)

I like small shops the best. Expertise and offers to buy will vary of course. But, if you can open your eyes a little wider, places like that can offer good buying opportunities (a.k.a. cherry pickin') and you're more apt to receive personal attention. Many will even sell your gun on consignment for a paltry 10% commission. What a deal.

I found two pick-able sellers and have purchased several rifles from them at well under market value. The smallest shop was the best. We became very good friends.

Baby-bathwater.....

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Let me give you some advice - sell the rifles separate from the scopes. Scopes on rifles are like swimming pools with houses.

God I hate when sellers do that! I can't tell you how many times I bought vintage rifles missing the scopes that probably lived on them for 50+ years. The last instance was a Winchester M54 .30-30 I bought on Gunbroker. It had extra holes in the left side of the receiver, obviously from a G&H side mount, but I didn't care because I really wanted the rifle. A couple days later I saw the same seller flogging a G&H side mount w/ Alaskan scope that he stated recently came off of a M54. I can add 2+2 and get 4. I would have cheerfully paid the tariff needed to have that gun and scope combo, especially since the scope "belonged" on the gun. As it was, I bid on the scope setup and lost to someone who really wanted it, when I couldn't access the auction as it was closing. Grrr.

quote:

Originally posted by gnoahhh:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Let me give you some advice - sell the rifles separate from the scopes. Scopes on rifles are like swimming pools with houses.

God I hate when sellers do that! I can't tell you how many times I bought vintage rifles missing the scopes that probably lived on them for 50+ years. The last instance was a Winchester M54 .30-30 I bought on Gunbroker. It had extra holes in the left side of the receiver, obviously from a G&H side mount, but I didn't care because I really wanted the rifle. A couple days later I saw the same seller flogging a G&H side mount w/ Alaskan scope that he stated recently came off of a M54. I can add 2+2 and get 4. I would have cheerfully paid the tariff needed to have that gun and scope combo, especially since the scope "belonged" on the gun. As it was, I bid on the scope setup and lost to someone who really wanted it, when I couldn't access the auction as it was closing. Grrr.

Gnoahhh, that is precisely why the rifles still wear the glass. If someone decides to make me a reasonable offer on the firearm without the glass, I will pull it. But the desired end result is I have nothing left but a few firearms for family members, just in case this crap goes south. The LAST thing I need to be doing is trying to sell a couple fistfuls of used scopes. No way to know for certain, but I would almost be willing to wager that one or two of them have ring marks, and that is the kiss of death trying to sell a scope. All these rifles carry good glass, paired to their distance capabilities, and I think they should stay that way.

But of course, as has been opined previously, I could be wrong...

I'm speaking from a retail point of view and not collectible combos. I'd never split up anything like that, but then again where I am located you never see anything like that. We get mostly Remsavchesters with Nikons and Bushnells, Leupolds on top.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

Originally posted by gnoahhh:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Let me give you some advice - sell the rifles separate from the scopes. Scopes on rifles are like swimming pools with houses.

God I hate when sellers do that! I can't tell you how many times I bought vintage rifles missing the scopes that probably lived on them for 50+ years. The last instance was a Winchester M54 .30-30 I bought on Gunbroker. It had extra holes in the left side of the receiver, obviously from a G&H side mount, but I didn't care because I really wanted the rifle. A couple days later I saw the same seller flogging a G&H side mount w/ Alaskan scope that he stated recently came off of a M54. I can add 2+2 and get 4. I would have cheerfully paid the tariff needed to have that gun and scope combo, especially since the scope "belonged" on the gun. As it was, I bid on the scope setup and lost to someone who really wanted it, when I couldn't access the auction as it was closing. Grrr.

Gnoahhh, that is precisely why the rifles still wear the glass. If someone decides to make me a reasonable offer on the firearm without the glass, I will pull it. But the desired end result is I have nothing left but a few firearms for family members, just in case this crap goes south. The LAST thing I need to be doing is trying to sell a couple fistfuls of used scopes. No way to know for certain, but I would almost be willing to wager that one or two of them have ring marks, and that is the kiss of death trying to sell a scope. All these rifles carry good glass, paired to their distance capabilities, and I think they should stay that way.

But of course, as has been opined previously, I could be wrong...

For some reason guns seem to be exempt from customary retail markup rules. Shoes, apparel, and other items are marked up at least 100% or more and folks pay it without argument. My gun customers believe guns should be sold at 10% below cost.

Gents:
I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. Below is part two of an article I wrote a few years ago but has no real market in magazines. You may find this humorus (or parts therein).
Cal

Gun Room BS
Part 2
By Cal Pappas

Introduction. Well known to all Alaska firearm collectors, the following stories come from one dealer. Of course I won't use the gent's name but those who previewed these stories knew the identity with only one episode. Enjoy.

The owner sold my 12 gauge Holland and Holland Rivera Badminton for me. I was to net $12,000 from the sale. When I came to get my check I was told it would take several weeks for a credit card to process (the buyer paid by credit card). I phoned six weeks later and was told the buyer’s check would take additional time to clear. When I said, “Which story is it--credit card or check?” The owner angrily said, “Come get your money” and slammed down the phone.

The price tag code on guns works like this: The marked price is $4000. The reverse of the tag reads: C 6. That equates to the lowest selling price is $3600. When I was buying a rifle and was told what the bottom price was I mentioned the best price was less than quoted and in the code (which he confided to me years earlier). “No, the code you see is the price I paid for the gun,” the owner said.

A doctor in town had an expensive English shotgun for sale. Well over a year and a half went by and he was told over and over again the gun had not sold and it was making the rounds at the Lower 48 gun shows. Then, the doc noticed the gun for sale by another dealer. A call revealed the gun was purchased several months prior and had been sold and resold a few times. The owner was just keeping and using the seller's money. And, this happens often. Read on.

The day I was to leave for a two week buffalo hunt in Australia I saw a deluxe .50-95 Model 1876 Winchester for sale at a giveaway price of $5500. Plain ‘76 express rifles were selling for upwards of $10,000. The owner told me it as all original, that he had a factory letter for it, and just wanted to move it. It looked too good to be true but I could not get the money as it was a Sunday and I was to leave that night. I called a friend and Winchester expert in Wisconsin. He offered to call on the gun and buy it for me. If it was correct, he would keep it for me and if not he would return it. Larry had my rifle when I returned from my hunt. He was told of the factory letter but it never came. Long story short, the owner had a letter that said it was a .45-75 so it seemed to be a re-barrel. When Larry called the Cody Museum, he was told a new employee made an error on the ‘yellow sheet’ (informal letter of specification). The rifle lettered correctly and valued at 3-4x the selling price, but the owner, while guaranteeing originality, believed the gun to be incorrect.

I brought a teacher friend to the shop one day. When he asked about the value of a painting (as he had one like it). The owner yelled at him, “Did you come in here for a free appraisal? Get out!”

Once, when I was browsing and not really buying, the owner turned off the lights in the store and stood in the doorway waiting for me to leave. “I’m closing early.” I departed, and when driving by the store on my way home, the lights were on and he was open for business. (Another dealer in town told me this also happened to him, also).

When I offered three of my rifles for trade on my first double rifle (.500bpe) and a 90-day wait for my rifles to sell, I returned to the store in three months. One of my rifles (the most expensive one) was still in the store. The owner didn’t want to give me cash for the two he sold. He as angry and said, “Take your rifle and leave.” I went home with my first double rifle--a cased Mortimer and Son.

$5500 was the price I was quoted on a brown .45-90 Winchester 1886. It was too much so I asked a friend and good customer to check on it for me. He was quoted $2500. He returned and bought it for me.

Several years later I asked about a .450 no2 Lang double. $15,500 was the price I was told. A friend bought it for me as he was quoted $10,000. To tell the complete truth, I bought nearly a dozen rifles this way--I'm quoted a too high price and I ask another to go in and he is quoted a lesser and more reasonable price.

The owner once sold a one-of-a-kind Rigby bolt rifle to a friend. When he later found out how rare it was he called and demanded the rifle back, saying it was only on loan.

The owner asked another friend to let him display two rifles at gun shows in the lower 48 but was told to sign a seller’s agreement as it would simplify paperwork requirements at the shows.

A chiropractor brought a .500-450 nitro double in to sell on consignment in September. In October the rifle was gone and the owner was told it was out of state at gun shows. The following June I was in Australia on a buffalo hunt and a gent told me he bought a .500-450 at the shop in October and paid cash for it. Same rifle. I emailed the doc and he got his money after a year.

Another good friend consigned a .450 no2 hammer rifle. After over a year of being told it was in the lower 48 at guns shows, I received a call to appraise a .450 no2 hammer double. Same rifle that sold a year prior. My friend got his money over a year of the rifle's sale.

(My favorite) I wanted to sell a deluxe Winchester express rifle and wanted a good amount of money for it was it was very rare and in excellent condition. The owner told me it was a refinished rifle and wouldn't bring much. I told him the rifle was guaranteed original from the fella I bought it from years earlier. The owner and I debated its originality with him standing firm that it was refinished. Then, I told him the gent that sold it to the gent I bought it from also guaranteed its originality and did so via email--it was in writing. The owner and I debated the subject again. He was adamant it was refinished. His plot was to get me to accept a lower figure so he could sell it at the high price and keep the extra money. My next statement was worth a bucket of gold to see the expression on his face. I told him, "The fella he bought it from was you!" He stumbled and back pedaled and made some lame-assed excuses for not remembering the rifle. Yes it was original and it sold for my sum.

I took a 20-577 double into the shop for a consignment sale. It was out at a gun show in the Lower 48. A friend called me and told me the rifle just sold to a dealer in Oregon and he witnessed the sale. I called the owner's cell and he told me he still had it. When I told him I knew he stumbled and said just sold but it would take 6 weeks to get paid. I called the purchaser and he paid cash for it and sold it to a dentist on the east coast.

You may ask why do I and many other gents put up with his dishonesty? I can't speak for anyone else but I'm sure my reasoning is true for others. The owner of this shop has excellent and high-end clientele and he can sell a rifle for far more than an individual seller can. However, I don't go into his store any longer. You see, I had four rifles on consignment there--a .500bpe, a .470, a 10-bore shotgun, and a Jeffery .600 single. I stopped into the shop to check if any had sold. A doctor friend was in the store with his son looking at the wares when the owner confronted me. He said, "Thanks to you one of my best customers thinks I'm a FAH so take your rifles and go!" I told him in a quite and polite voice I didn't know what he was talking about and his last words were, "You think I will tell you anything" and walked away. The doc was astounded and I apologized to him for the owner's behavior. An employee put my four guns in soft cases and I departed. I have not returned since. But, when Alaska's collectors gather we always tell our stories of the shop and the owner. I always get them laughing and shaking their heads with my list. The sale of the deluxe Winchester always tops the bill.

Part three will be a few stories from a private and non licensed gent who buys and sells lots of guns for extra income.

quote:

AFA pawn shop owners go, they are not a charity, they are in a business to make money AND they provide a last ditch service for thousands of people every day that usually have no bank account, and no other resource for quick cash.

I see pawn shops as taking advantage of folks down on their luck, and doing it willingly. One incident I witnessed at a local pawn shop several years ago, and I will leave the subject alone.

I was in one of our local shops when a young man came in, wanting to redeem a firearm he had pawned. The owner of the shop told him "Hey, man. It is easy to see you are good for the loan. Just pay me the interest, and use the rest of your money to pay the other bills. Your rifle isn't going anywhere; just pay me the interest."

I don't know what happened after that because the exchange made me sick, and I left. I have every belief that what happened was the youngster paid the interest, then left the store. At that point the pawn shop had even LESS in the firearm than the ridiculously low amount that was probably paid initially.

And so it goes: the man comes in every week to pay the "interest", in effect giving back to the pawn shop what it originally loaned against the item. Then the man hits a rough spot and loses his job. At that point, all bets are off, and the pawn shop puts the rifle on the sell rack with virtually nothing in it, since it has been paid back for what was originally loaned. What the rifle sells for is then pure profit, and the young man down on his luck is long forgotten.

I am sure there are pawn shops that tout themselves as being very fair. Somehow, I find that pretty hard to believe. I have seen what they offer on firearms, and I have seen the prices they put on them when they are put up for sale.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Part three will be a few stories from a private and non licensed gent who buys and sells lots of guns for extra income.

Where can we find part three?

-Brandon