I am not talking about DGR rifles, I am talking about hunting rifles in calibers like 8x57JRS or 9.3x74R. My opinion is that o/u design is stronger than s/s design ( I know there are a lot of different locks etc.), will not shoot of face so easy. Also some o/u designs allow to adjust barrels for different ammunition. But with o/u, you have longer travel with opening, but on other side if you are used to shoot o/u shotgun quickly, it couldn't be a problem.

I know double rifle is classic, but I am talking only about functionality durability and accuracy.

Jiri

Well, some folks may argue the the O/U will be more affected by the wind blowing, with more surface area facing the wind. Or that the barrels have to drop too far to get another cartridge in the chamber of the bottom barrel. I will argue the SxS fore-ends too wide and makes for uncomfortable handling, or the sighting plane gets a little buggered up with being so wide. The SxS is the classic double. Be it a rifle or shotgun. Myself, I've always liked the look of O/U's. I've never owned either in a rifle, but to me if I bought one, it would be an O/U. Iron sighted, would look like I'm sighting down a bolt action, whick I'm most acustomed to. As for scope mounting, to me it looks a little easier. Either way, they would both make sweet hunting rifles. If you don't have to carry them too far. They are a bit heavier, for obvious reasons. And I won't be carrying one up and down the rockies. But one day, I will own one nonetheless. Either way, good luck.

I am no expert but I don't think the O/U is stronger. It is very difficult to find any current makers who do a "stock" or "standard" O/U rifle in anything larger than 9.3x74r and rarely a 375 (Chapuis does it). If the O/U were stronger then more makers would make it I think.

Also with the newer SxS designs (Chapuis, Demas etc) there is more area to have multiple hinges that I imagine would be difficult in an O/U. Having said that this is only my guess and not a fact.

Most European made 8mm and 9mm O/U are made because:
(1) O/U are generally cheaper to make, I've heard makers tell me they are eaiser/faster to regulate and the actions are more machine made, all saving time and money.

(2) Most Europeans (basing this off personal experience in the UK, France, etc so my observations might be less applicable in Central and Eastern Europe) now a days are used to O/U shotguns so an O/U rifle seems more famillar.

All that said, I think it comes down to personal preferences in the smaller calibers. I shoot SxS shotguns so a SxS rifle just feels better. I think O/U just don't mount and handle as well. They feel a bit clumsy to me. But I'm sure for someone used to O/U a SxS just feels "wierd."

By the by, If you have it done 7x65r make sure its a good maker that cartridge is hot!

Just some thoughts.

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Originally posted by Chasseur:
I am no expert but I don't think the O/U is stronger. It is very difficult to find any current makers who do a "stock" or "standard" O/U rifle in anything larger than 9.3x74r and rarely a 375 (Chapuis does it). If the O/U were stronger then more makers would make it I think.

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Chasseur,

I am absolutely no expert, not even an informed amateur. But one of the best gunmakers, Boss, offers double rifles upto 600 NE in O/U as well as SxS configuration. http://www.bossguns.co.uk/newguns/

I think some pre war Merkels were also made in 470 and 500 NE in O/U with their Kersten action.

Best wishes,

I have owned and shot 9.3X74R double rifles in both overunder and SXS configurations. I have owned and shot overunder doubles in 8X57JR, 7X65R, and several others... it comes down to this: a SXS lifts and shoots like a fine 20 gauge shotgun. and an overunder shoots like a classic skeet or clays double. It also comes down to weight. I have never seen a light SXS double rifle, although I have seen very light overunders..

As to accuracy: neither can touch a bolt rifle past a hundred yards.. and I have spent thousands of dollars and hours trying to disprove this.. either barrel can be perfect, and many are capable of half inch or so. but there is no way to bring two barrels together at all distances, since they converge somewhere, they diverge past that point.

With a SXS, the point of divergence begins a windage separation, and with a ovunder the point of divergence begins an elevation separation.. for deer and elk, I prefer the ovuynder for this reason. for brush shooting, or big things like moose, the SXS was fine.

I have sold most of my doubles, and retreated to the dark side, with synthetic and stainless barrels for go anywhere and dont sweat it reliability.

I came to this conclusion when I was out of country on Sep 11 2001, and my high-priced doulbe rifle presented problems with flying back to the USA, since I would not leave a firearm behind. I decided I could walk away from a stainless synthetic soulless piece of hardware easier than a beautiful engraved piece of artwork, even if it were just a Merkel.

Jameister

isn't the whole purpose of a double to have faster followup shots and reliablility while hunting dangerous game. Why would anyone want a double in a non dangerous game caliber, The only thing I can think of is hog hunting or something like that

Thank you all for replies. Interesting results.
For now, I can't afford that (I am finishing studies at university), but I am looking to the future. What I also love is 16 gauge, so separate shotgun 16 gauge barrels could be my choice.

Jiri

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isn't the whole purpose of a double to have faster followup shots and reliablility while hunting dangerous game. Why would anyone want a double in a non dangerous game caliber, The only thing I can think of is hog hunting or something like that

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Not true... the europeans use double rifles in smaller calibers to quick shoot two shots at running game, or to do in a fawn and adult deer with no reloading sounds to give a way position. I used them cause I think they are as cool as a double barreled shotgun, no reason, just because..now when considering dangerous game, it is all about fast and always. but these are not accuracy rifles so much as rightnow calibers.

Where non-dangerous game is concerened, the choice between O/U, and S/S is a personal choice! One is just as effective as the other on that type game, but that is where the equality ends, IMO!

I own, and have owned both types of double rifles, and there are some things I like about each. My favorite, however is the S/S double rifle! So far the things that seperate these two types of double are purely personal likes and dislikes.

There seems to be a conception, by many that the O/U is stronger than the S/S! This is not neccessarily true, though there are exceptions on each side. Generally the O/U rotates, not on a henge pin, but two small bisquites pertrudeing from each wall of the action body, with some sort of latch at the bottom breech end of the barrels, or, the strongest, a double Kerstin latch. The trunions (Bisquites) are usually lower than center of the bottom barrel, and very much lower than the center line of the top barrel. This is not an exceptionally strong set-up! On the S/S double, however, the Henge pin goes completely accross the width of the action, and is mated to a wide surface of the barrel hook. Addtionally, it is placed exactly between the barrels, where it offers the same support to both barrels, and is fenced in by two massive barr halves on each side of the lumps. The bites are also much larger, in the more massive under lumps, than any latch on a O/U, and verious top latches are available as well on the S/S, as well. The only place where the O/U might be stronger is when fireing the bottom barrel,and is considerably weaker for the top barrel. The bottom barrel is the one that should always be fired first,on a O/U, because this barrel does considerably less damage to the rifle, and they are regulated to be fired in that order. The fireing of the bottom barrel first also brings up a problem of it being the hardest barrel to re-load, quickly! The drill, at least for D/G, is to fire the right barrel, then quickly re-load that barrel, for the event of a charge occuring. This is another reason the O/U is not liked for DGR use.

The recoil on an O/U is different for each barrel, as well, on the O/U. The reason for this is, the top barrel is high above the horizonal, and vertical axis of the rifle, so rolls up more than the bottom barrel, which is closer to the axis of the rifle, and recoils more steight back. On a S/S the recoil is the same for each barrel. and even if it weren't, no matter which barrel you fire first, they are both equal in the time it takes to re-load them because they break open exactly the same amount.

The O/U is cheaper because it can be made almost completely on machines, and there is little fitting, when compared to the S/S. fitting being a large amount of the cost of makeing S/S double, this effects the bottom line considerably. The regulation is about the same on either type, as far as the skill involved, but is accomplished differently. In many cases the O/Us are not regulated at all, but are fitted with little systems to regulate them yourself. This is often touted as a feature so you can re-regulate for different loads each time you want to hunt something different! Take my word for it, if you are smart, you will regulate for the heavy bullet you want to use for the biggest thing you want to hunt, and leave it alone, or permently solder it that way. I assure you your life will be less stressful.

For DANGEROUS GAME, there is no way the O/U can compete with a good S/S, IMO! First off the recoil of a O/U will absolutely rip your head off when you fire the top barrel with something like a 470 NE, so the O/U has to be far heavier when chambered for heavy kicking cartridges.

Some place in this string I saw where someone stated the double rifle can't be regulated where it will shoot to long range, as well as up close, because of the convergence of the barrels. This is a myth that has been posted all over the net, and is simply not true! The 50, 100, 200, and 300yd flips ups on the express sights, of a well made double, are not there simply for looks. A well made double rifle will regulate both barrels out to the last leaf on that sight. If a rifle is regulated properly they do not cross the shots from each barrel, but hit side, by side in their composite group.

In case anyone gets the idea I don't like O/U double rifles, he would be quite wrong, but the O/U is a toy when compared to a fine S/S,IMO!

MacD37: Thank you for your post. I agree to the most subjects you mentioned.

Jameister: No, double rifle (best with ejectors) is great for driven game, like wild boar hunt or so. Here, we in Czech Rep. shoot almost to distances up to 70m, sometimes up to 150m maximum, something like 500 m deer shot is not called "hunting" here . . . Driven game is at much lesser distances, could be for example 30 m or so, double rifle is much faster for running shots than bolt action. Of course that shots are with open sights or 1x wide range optics or red dots . . .

Jiri

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chasseur:
I am no expert but I don't think the O/U is stronger. It is very difficult to find any current makers who do a "stock" or "standard" O/U rifle in anything larger than 9.3x74r and rarely a 375 (Chapuis does it).

Mehulkamdar,

Thanks for the information on Boss. I am not surprised that they offer a big-bore O/U. Boss was one of the first to offer a modern O/U shotgun (they called it a “vertical gunâ€). However, perhaps I should have made it clearer, I was talking about the “off the shelfâ€/manufactured double rifles like: Merkel, Chapuis, Heym, Beretta, etc. not the custom/best gun makers. Going back to the orginal question, I would think if the O/U was “inherently†stronger more of the cheaper makers would do it rather.

Just have to throw in my 2 cents worth in here. I have owned many double rifles, mostly SxS, with a few O/U.

Personally I have absolutely no use for the O/U versions, except perhaps in something of absolute minimal height like a Boss round action.

As to the forearm being too wide on a SXS, that has not been my experience. Every double rifle of any useable quality at all that I have owned or seen has a "splinter" type forearm, not a "beavertail" type. On a SXS double rifle, one does not usually hold the forearm when shooting, anyway...they hold the barrels, normally about where the end of the forend tip is.

I still have an O/U double rifle, with 5 sets of barrels, but it is a jack-leg butcher job compared to any of the SxS rifles I've owned. (I keep it mainly because I do find the .223/12 gauge barrel set handy for turkey hunting. Having said that, all you need to get a wild turkey around my place is a car, bakke, or motorcyle. If you're not darned careful, you'll hit the ignorant bloody things in the driveway! Of course, they are fun and a lot more sport to get by calling...)

Anyone who thinks SxS doubles are not more than adequately strong has never owned a nice .470 with a cross-bolt and clipped fences.

BTW, to add a bit to the debate in a little diferent direction, I much prefer my doubles to have two triggers rather than one.

YMMV

Alberta Canuck

I have never seen a dgr double rifle without two triggers.

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Originally posted by Jameister:
I have never seen a double rifle without two triggers.

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Oh yes, they certainly exist. The idea being that the second (follow-up) shot can be had without moving your finger to the rear trigger. I think one of the main reasons the double trigger is so common on double rifles, is that for DG doubles, a double trigger mechanism offers an additional measure of back-up reliability.

- mike

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Originally posted by Jameister:
I have never seen a dgr double rifle without two triggers.

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Westley Richards made O/U rifles with single triggers in 425 Westley Richards. Check Christopher Austyn's "Classic Sporting Rifles" and "Modern Sporting Guns" if you are interested.

Good hunting!

quote:

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Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
BTW, to add a bit to the debate in a little diferent direction, I much prefer my doubles to have two triggers rather than one.

YMMV

Alberta Canuck

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I have to agree with everything Canuck, had to say in his post! Especially in regard to the single trigger on a DG double rifle. The one thing that takes away the "two complete, and indipendant rifles, on the same stock" reliability, is a single trigger. If the trigger goes South, what you are left with is a $15K baseball bat. This is one place I totally disagree with Elmer Kieth! He prefered a single trigger on his double rifles.

The other thing that i will not have on a DG double is an automatic safety. Those spawn of the devil have gotten people killed, and will never be on a double of mine that is used for dangerous game. Almost anything other than the Single trigger, auto safety, or a rimless cartridge, I can live with on a double rifle, but those I refuse to use.
I doo have a Valmet with a single trigger, and have been informed I can get double triggers for it, a change that is soon to come about!

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I have never seen a dgr double rifle without two triggers.

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I know of a double H&H in .458 with single trigger.

Lynx

Mac
I prefer the automatic safety on double shotguns, but it is a simple matter to disable it so that it could be reinstalled for resale.