All this talk of unique and 30-06 has me thinking about lead bullets. I'm always looking for cheaper bullets, and I see hard cast lead for $25/500. Thats cheaper than the milsurp fmj's that shoot like crap.

I'm wanting to shoot these in 4 k-31's in 7.5x55, a 1903 in 30-06, and a Savage 99 and Arisaka type 38 in 308 Win.
Searching here and Lee's manual will get me a bunch of powder recomendations. What about bullets. I'm not interested in casting lead myself.
What diameter? 310 seems most common, but I see 308 to 311 listed.
Gas checked?
What shape? I'd like to shoot 300 yards, but I have lots of elevation on the k-31. Is 300 yards doable with lead?
Is barrel leading a possibility? Is it easier or harder to clean than a leaded revolver?

Any certain brand to try or avoid? Midway lists Brass Plus, Hunters Supply, Meister, and Oregon Trail.

Thanks

For what it's worth, my Remington 30 cal. rifles....308 and 30/06 all seem to like a gas checked .311 quite well. I cast them myself however and have no experience or recomendation for a commercially available option.

Well, my first thoughts are try the commercial bullets first, probably sized to .310". Try either a round nosed bullet or a flat nosed style with both having bore riding noses.
favorites with me are Lyman's #311291, probably one of the best 30 caliber bullets ever design from back in 1905.
However, and this is just my opinion, in order to get the best results from your rifles, you just about have to cast the bullets yourself. Unique is a good powder for the lighter gallery type loads, but if you want to shoot to 300 yards, there are better powders for that purpose, and the loads are not all that more expensive.
Lets look at what I do. First, I cast my own bullets. After a close visual inspection, each bullet is weighed and segregated by weight to plus or minus one-tenth of a grain. My alloy is a bit complicated, but you can get good results with just wheel weight metal and some 95/5 percent lead free solder. My next step is to apply the gas check and lubricate and size the bullet. There are three sizes you can try to see which works best in the individual rifle. They are .309", .310" and .311". I've been using .310" for the most part with good results
Powder charges are 16.0 gr. Alliant #2400, 17.7 gr. H-4227 and 25.0 gr. IMR or H-4895. Velociy is about 1600 FPS plus or minus. Those loads BTW, are usable in all of the cartridges you mentioned. I use a one grain tuft of dacron batting over the charge, but you can use a filler or not, your choice. I'd try both and see which gives the best groups.
You asked about 300 yard shooting. In one rifle, a Winchester Model 70 sitting in a Ramline stock, on a fairly nice day with light winds, that rifle in .308 Win. will deliver 1.5 MOA at 200 yards and 2.5 MOA at 300 yards from the bench if I do my part.
The same loads in a 30-06 will knock down 300 meter pigs on the silhouette range IF I can keep my shots on the upper third of the pig.
I can tell you this. Once you start shooting cast bullets and acheiving success, you will be addicted to casting and shooting your own. I've been casting my own since I was 16 years old, and I'm 67 now. getting good groups hasn't always been easy. Try to look at it this way. Shooting factory ammo was grade, middle and high school. Learning to reload so as to tweak out the best accuracy was college. Doing the cast bullet thing is post graduate work towards a higher degree in shooting pleasure. The next step??? Hunting with cast bullets. They do work quite well.
Paul B.

I don't think it is doable with bulk commercial cast bullets. It's certainly doable casing yourself. You may be able to find a small custom caster who will work with you, but those bullets will be about as expensive as jacketed.

To get cast bullets to work properly, you have to control hardness, diameter, and lube. Commercial bullets are mostly what the guy feels like making and probably not what you need.

you may end up with exceptable (or better)accuratcy with commercial cast boolits . how-ever their weak spots are poor lube , wrong alloy for intended use and poor demensions .one can use commercial cast with decent results up to 1600 fps , if one is going to go faster than that ,then the short comings are going to become very apparent.
a big no-no is switching back and forth between cast and jacketed without a sound cleaning. after the sound cleaning you need to clean again . failing to do so will result in the nastest fouling . lead fouling by itself is not a problem to clean up .acutely it is a sign that something is not right , one can run hundreds of cast boolits though a gun barrel with out leading when everything is coming together right.

If I was going to use commercially available bullets in the various 30s, the first thing I would do is steer away from those advertised as being .30 caliber. They will almost certainly be too small diameter for best results unless you can specify diameters as large as up to .313".

I'd try instead to find someone making cast bullets for the .303 British...in other words, at LEAST .311" diameter. You'll likely find over time that diameter is more critical than alloy hardness in preventing leading. A diameter which pretty much fills your rifle's throat will pretty much forestall leading, even with softer alloys (asuming a lube appropriate to the alloy is used).

Most cast bullets sold commercially as "hard lead" are anything but hard. To me, hard lead means a Brennell reading of 22 or harder. Most "hard lead" bullets sold commercially are more like Brennell 12-to-16.

Lastly, for serious hunting use, I'd go with a much slower burning powder than those normally recommended for cast bullets. For example, IMR 4759 will give good groups in the '06 with as little as 17 grains, but it is NOT what I would use for hunting. Instead, I'd start with about 32-35 grains of N-135 or N-140 and work UP in charge weight. (Again talking about the '06.)

By using linotype for an alloy, and N-135, I have been able to get sub-1/2 MOA groups from my .30-BRs, propelling 210 gr. cast bullets at 2,050 to 2,305 fps average velocities. The .30 BR is not nearly so large a case as even a .308, so a lot more powder is appropriate in the .06, and more velocity is possible without leading if a slow enough powder and a proper cast bullet are used.

Like everyone else has told you though, you are pretty much gonna have to learn to do it yourself to get truly good results. Every rifle is a law unto itself, and a person who is an accomplished jacketed-bullet reloader is just a babe-in-the-woods when they first start looking for accuracy with cast bullets.

Maybe you'll also find it AIN'T really cheap. When you reach the 30 or 40 mould plateau (maybe just 10 or 20 in .30 calibre, but you WILL add calibres once you get hooked), have at least two lubri-sizers, 14 different bullet sizing dies and their punches, at least two 20-pound lead pots, 15 sticks each of 10 different lubes, 150 lbs of alloy at about $.50/lb or more, a digital scale for speedy sorting of bullets by weight, you are just beginning your addiction.

This is not sounding so cheap anymore!

I picked up 500 .309 165g bullets today. The dealer said they are probably 16-18 brennell. For $22, if they don't work for me, I'm not out much.

Has anyone tried the method Richard Lee described in the 2nd edition of his reloading manual? He sells this tool
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=731364
to test the hardness, and the book gives reduced loads with pressure data, to be matched to the hardness of the alloy. It seems to me that this could save some trial and error.


If lubrication on a commercial bullet is inadequate, Is there an easy way I can re-lube it?

I just realized I don't have an expander die. Can I use a .323 or .338 expander to flare the case mouth?

I just fired my first cast lead rounds from my 1903 Springfield, 30-06. I took loads from Lee's manual, aiming for around 22,000 psi. I flared the case mouths with a 338 expander.
Loads were
35.5g H4350
23.0g Varget
25.0g BL-C2
23.0g H4895
26.5g H335

Fired at 50 yards All groups were over 1 foot except Varget. H335 was worst, I only found 1 of 4 holes. One H4350 round hit while tipping. The three extruded powders left a bunch of partialy burned chunks in the bore. Rifle was cleaned with kroil and patches between groups.

Varget was a pleasant exception. The first shot was out of the group. 3 fouled bore shots measures 0.53" ctc, total for 4 shots 1.7".

After the 3rd group I cleaned more aggressively with lead solvent and a 338 brush. I got a few very small chunks of lead. I think lead may have been filling the pits, of which there are lots. The bore was very clean to start. Or maybe it was leading from too much pressure?

Why were the bad groups so bad? Too hot? Are too light loads ever going to cause very bad groups?

I think that in one aspect, you answered your own question. You stated that the barrel was pitted. Pitted barrels don't shoot cast bullets very well, at least most of the time. However, there are exceptions to that rule.
I'm also curious about the bullet design. Is it a round nose, flat nose of a spitzer design?
Have you tried seating the bullet out far enough to engage the rifling? They're probably hard enough, so I don't think that's too big a problem there. Most of the bullets I cast and shoot run about 14 on the BHN scale. Howeven, in my alloy, I can oven treat them to 30-32 on the BHN scale.
Paul B.