I was reading on another forum and the poster made reference on how to stop flinching. He said you should squeeze the trigger and the gun should almost completely surprise you.

As I look back at my past shooting style and recent shooting style, I can't help but wonder if it has something to do with my recoil intolerance. I am not saying that I am a baby concerning recoil, but a .300 magnum is at about my limit to recoil in shooting the way I like to shoot which is relaxed and completely surprising at ignition.

This got me thinking that maybe the fact that the gun goes off at a complete surprise, plus I am so relaxed as being the reason I don't like heavy recoil.

I guess it all started about 15 years ago when I got my first bow. I couldn't tune it to save my life and began asking questions. Finally someone suggested focusing on surprise releases. So I got my little 4 year old sister to pull the trigger for me while I held the bow. Those first few shots were nerve wracking as my flinch was terrible. I was finding myself going through total spasms and jerking the bow into overrawing it.

Anyways I learned the next few months or years how to squeeze the trigger and the bow going off as a complete surprise every time. I got so proficient at it that I had to resort to a sling because holding the bow relaxed resulted in dropping it.

I then focused on this technique for my rifle shooting. The rifle gave me the advantage of relaxing completely because the muscles aren't tense from holding the full draw poundage.

Today, my rifle shooting and bow shooting are the same. Both ignition's are complete surprises any time, every time. After many years of shooting like this, I really can't conceive shooting any other way. I guess because I shoot scatter gun so little being a major factor.

Granted my Abolt is a bit of a mule kicker, as all Abolts are, I find the surprise shot really beats the heck out of a guy. The shot allows the gun to completely recoil up into my face as my shoulder muscles are flabby and give backwards. Also my shooting hand is so relaxed, the trigger guard jumps back and snaps at my knuckles. Also at the shot, is it such a surprise, after the gun recoils I have to actually grab onto the gun as it is falling back down from the upward recoil or else it will slam down onto the bench. It's like one is in a dream and relaxed, just squeezing the trigger, then bang, you wake up and someone has thrown you a gun to catch!

I am not complaining, because the accuracy afforded from this is better than recoil tolerance.

I guess I wonder how many other people shoot like this? I also wonder how many other people shoot tense and pull the trigger. I also wonder how many who shoot completely by surprise and with a spaghetti body and arms are shooting 300 mag. and up?

I shoot better knowing when the gun will go off.
I prefer it that way too. JMHO

If you want to cure flinching just have someone else load the gun and hand it to you.....and of course occasionally it should be loaded with an empty chamber......a snap cap!!!

You'll learn to shoot well quickly!

Reducing my trigger pull from factory weight to 1-2 pounds cured my flinching.

My preference is 1 pound. I tolerate 2. Anymore than that is too much. At the moment I think the trigger should break, it better.

Heavy triggers suck.

My honest opinion is that off a bench, during load workup and sighting in prior to a trip, the rifle should surprise you when it goes off. On the contrary, you should know exactly when the trigger will break when you are hunting. And I would hope the reason for the second sentence is obvious...

Now, having said that: recoil sensitivity is something that some folks just have. I am not sure there is a cure for it, but it can be compensated for. Make certain you have good hearing protection, and get a Past recoil pad for the range. That will help at the range, and concentrate on watching the animal's reaction to the shot when you are hunting. With most modern calibers, at reasonable ranges you can see it happen if you look for it. When you get to where you can "see the bullet smack the game" you will find that the recoil has already happened without you feeling it, you didn't actively hear the shot, and the shot went where it was supposed to, giving you a mortally wounded animal.

Doubless tapped on what I was going to say:

Get off the Bench.

My big rifle today is a .350 RMag sending a 250gr. bullet at 2500fps. Off the bench that load is pretty stout to me. But shot standing or kneeling it's actually quite tolerable to me.

I discovered that a lot of my flinch is very much mental, and associated with how I position my body to take the recoil. I start my range sessions today with small bore rifle (AR15, then .257Bob, then .35 Rem, then the .350 Rmag) and I shoot minimally off the bench.

I've long since finalized my load development for my .350 Rmag - so I fire three rounds from the bench (more a confidence thing) and then start slinging rounds downrange from kneeling and standing positions. Only THREE from the bench. That's enough to let me know the zero is still on and that I'm still grouping with confidence. Since my load will group 3/4" in my hands (and sub 1/2" if my buddy is shooting it...bastard!) I know that anything in the 1" group is just fine for a quick bench test.

Also, unless you are a varmint shooter, just how many shots does one make in the field from a stable bench rest? For me, not many!

Anyway, getting off the bench has done wonders letting me control the recoil and manage what flinching I do have.

Oh, final note: limit the number of big gun rounds fired! For me, around 12 rounds of 250/2500 is enough recoil before I start to develop my flinch again. Stopping before that, or moving over to a lighter practice load is a darn good thing to do too. After 12 rounds, I move to a 200 / 2600fps load which is much, much easier on the shoulder.

Oh, and double ear protection. Foamie's + Muffs. Big Plus there!

I have only a couple comments.

Some of us just do not like recoil. It doesn't make us pussies or any less of a hunter. It is just a fact. I would rather have fun shooting than think about the beating I am going to take doing it. I had a 7 mag once for exactly one season. Kicked the shit out of me, so I sold it, went back to the '06 and 308 and never felt the need again.

The second thing is I think you are confusing surprise with relaxed. With a bow they are more the same, but not for me with a rifle. The shot can be a surprise, but the buttstock is always firmly held against the shoulder, either by the front hand on the bench, or with the aid of a sling in hunting situations and practice. I never hold the gun so loosely that it slaps me. Recoils, yes, slaps, no.

Just some thoughts.

I, too, like knowing when the gun is going to fire. A gun with the trigger weight too high makes it difficult to know where the break point is. I think a lighter trigger would help a lot of people.

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
I, too, like knowing when the gun is going to fire. A gun with the trigger weight too high makes it difficult to know where the break point is. I think a lighter trigger would help a lot of people.

I agree with both your points. One can safely bet their boots that any (every) top competition rifle shooter also knows exactly when his/her trigger is going to break, and uses that knowledge to their advantage. That's one reason they hate inconsistent triggers whether from "positions" or from bench.

Even with a 1.5 Kilo (3.3 lbs) minimum trigger pull, as is required in many nations' highpower competitions, it is still important to know exactly when the trigger will break.

Incidentally, a too light trigger can be as hard as a too heavy one to shoot consistently well with.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Reducing my trigger pull from factory weight to 1-2 pounds cured my flinching.

My preference is 1 pound. I tolerate 2. Anymore than that is too much. At the moment I think the trigger should break, it better.

Heavy triggers suck.

God Bless Arnold Jewel. Doc, you would be very comfortable with my rifles...

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Reducing my trigger pull from factory weight to 1-2 pounds cured my flinching.

My preference is 1 pound. I tolerate 2. Anymore than that is too much. At the moment I think the trigger should break, it better.

Heavy triggers suck.

God Bless Arnold Jewel. Doc, you would be very comfortable with my rifles...

Good light triggers, good hearing protection and if shooting from the bench a Past recoil pad helps.

I like a 2# trigger and can tolerate a 3# trigger

I want to know exactly when my trigger is gonna break. And FWIW, I think a hunting rifle with a 1# trigger pull is an accident waiting to happen.
If you're sitting at a bench, set up so you are sitting as erect as possible rather than crouched behind the rifle. When shooting targets with a .222 and such, you're taught to handle the rifle as lightly as possible. The stock should barely touch the shoulder, the right hand barely caresses the wrist and the finger grazes the trigger. With a boomer, you grasp the wrist strongly and pull the rifle into your shoulder, you weld your cheek tightly against the stock (if you have one of the goofy, star-wars scopes that you have to bobble your head around to find your focus, your case is hopeless), and you use your left hand to help pull the rifle into your shoulder and hold it down on the front rest. When the rifle fires, you and the rifle should move back as a unit. Practice keeping your eyes open when the rifle fires and consentrate on exactly how the sights were aligned with the target. You only need to shoot it 2 or 3 times on the first outing. Then use a lighter rifle to practice the technique.
If your range permits, having someone stand beside you (while practicing with the lighter rifle) and loading live rounds and emptys while you look away is good practice. With the lighter rifle, the flinch is more obvious.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I want to know exactly when my trigger is gonna break. And FWIW, I think a hunting rifle with a 1# trigger pull is an accident waiting to happen.

And does roger

I prefer a 3-4# trigger on my rifle as long as I know when it will break. I don't have any trouble flinching with big boomers but I do flinch with shotguns. Still can't stop it. Someone once told me it's not recoil intolerance that make a shotgunner flinch; it's your brain telling you the sight picture is wrong. I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I want to know exactly when my trigger is gonna break. And FWIW, I think a hunting rifle with a 1# trigger pull is an accident waiting to happen.

And does roger

Shoot what you are comfortable with. I'll stick with my 1 pounders and never look back. Driving a car is an accident waiting to happen but we all do it.

To cure flinching you have to know that you're flinching, and the best way to do that is to randomly load dummy rounds. You'll know immediately when you pull the trigger on one of those. Kinda makes you feel foolish, but you learn to bear down and concentrate.

Shoot a 22 lr a lot alternate back and forth. If you start getting flinchy or feel punchy grab up the 22 and shoot it a while, really makes a big difference and does not cost very much. Most of being flinchy is between your ears and a 22 will help you get your mind right.

I try not to over-think the problem.

I don't think I have an undue flinch and I'm not going to try to shake my confidence by trying to prove that I do flinch.

I am not averse to recoil. I personally can't tell much difference in my 25-06 Rem, .308 Win, 300 WSM, and my 375 H&H. I just prepare differently. I wear a shooting shield at the bench with the 375 and not with the others. My focus is always on the result, not the recoil, It would probably scare the shit out of me if I started concentrating on the recoil.

I don't get surprised by the gun going-off because when I start the squeeze, I know it's coming. I don't particularly care whether it goes-off exactly when I think it will. I don't want to start "jerking" the trigger just to create that affect.

I'm O.K.

I shoot for a hobby. Rifles mainly, to the tune of 1500 rounds per year (three days per week weather permitting with some extra thrown in), a lot of .22 plinking, plus skeet shooting and duck and goose hunting making 3000 plus rounds each year. My present rifles besides the .22's are .243 WSSM, 25 WSSM, .270 WSM, 7mm STW, 30-30 Win, .300 Winny, .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, .358 STA, .416 Rem, .416 Rigby. I shoot on my private benchs of 100 up to 400 yards with an old rifle building buddy and many Elk and Deer hunting friends. I also shoot many of their rifles when they want a load perfected. I reload everyting and chronograph 99% of the rifle loads I shoot along with my son and two grandsons old enough to shoot extensively. I tell all this to make the following statement ----- I gaurantee you that I know exactly when my rifle is going to go off and I would invite anyone to view my collection of thousands of targets marked with Temperature, load data, date, speed, and bullet. I also would invite anyone to come shoot with me, MY WAY. Good shooting.

In the field it is an absolute requirement to know when the shot will go off.
The surprise break is purely a bench thing and has NO place in hunting.
There has been some great advice here however, limit the amount shot from a bench, hearing protection, and most importantly is to shoot LOTS AND LOTS of small caliber in between shooting sessions of larger caliber.

And a one pound trigger is very doable and safe for a hunter that is conditioned to it.

The first rifle I owned after a lever action 30-30 was an old timney triggered model 98 in 270 with an 11 ounce trigger.
I did not know any better at the time so after the first time it went off in the air on me I made a deliberate effort to always be aware of that trigger and it in fact was the best training I ever did for my shooting.
I agree completely with Doc on this, I will not shoot overa 2 pound trigger on my rifles and prefer a pound an a half.
And yes they are as safe as a 6 pound pull if t he shooter is trained.
And man does it make a difference in your shooting.