Moving on from R15 in .308 Win

The Accurate Reloading Forums

This topic can be found at:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/9891072272

12 October 2022, 18:58

ledvm

Moving on from R15 in .308 Win

Looks like we are going to be without R15 for sometime. Going to conserve what I have left to feed my .500 NE.

Every time I have worked up a load for a .308 Win…R15 has come out as a top powder if not adamantly the best powder for 165 gr bullets.

My question!?

If you had to pick another powder to spend a lot of time with that I don’t have to work up a new load…what would be your top pick for 165 gr bullets?

I have a LOT of AA 2230 and while I could get the occasional 1” group with it…most were 1.5” - 2” groups.

I have various other good .308 powders.

Would like to know the groups top contender sans R15.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

12 October 2022, 20:17

Nimrod308

I've had good luck with Varget, IMR 4064 and Win. 748.

12 October 2022, 22:04

richj

Varget
Ar-Comp
I-4895

12 October 2022, 22:12

theback40

Add H 335 to the above list.

12 October 2022, 22:33

rnovi

Varget

Regards,

Robert

******************************
H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer!

12 October 2022, 23:01

crbutler

I feel for you. RL 15 has worked best for me also.

I’ve had good results with 4064 and varget, just not as good as with RL15.

748 works “ok” for me, but is third tier.

13 October 2022, 00:08

ZekeShikar

I'm still trying to get the real answer on why ALL Reloder powders have been more scarce than fairy dust laced with hen's teeth.

Good luck in your quest for a RL-15 replacement. RL-15 is what mine are loaded with so I cannot help with a substitute.

Zeke

13 October 2022, 04:38

drm-hp

Try VihtaVuori N140.

13 October 2022, 15:56

p dog shooter

IMR4064

13 October 2022, 16:54

Ed Scarboro

Varget for me as well.

I've seen RL15 at several gun shops recently around here. If you have any connection here in NC they could pick some up for you. I probably have a few pounds I could spare.

Ed

13 October 2022, 18:06

Buglemintoday

imr4064
Varget

Varget has been great in all of the rifles I have tried it in

"Let me start off with two words: Made in America"

13 October 2022, 21:27

JohnD

IMR 4064 was one of the classic powders with a 168 grain bullet for competition loads in the 308. Should work fine for a 165.

14 October 2022, 01:46

ledvm

I have a bit of IMR 4064 left over from when I tried to make it work before and I have some Varget. I will try the 4064 and see if the rifle I am shooting likes it. I tried Varget once before in this rifle with pretty mediocre results.

14 October 2022, 15:28

Ed Scarboro

Lane,
I was at a local shop yesterday and they had 3 5 pound canisters of RL15. It's available if you want to stay with it.

14 October 2022, 16:19

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
Lane,
I was at a local shop yesterday and they had 3 5 pound canisters of RL15. It's available if you want to stay with it.

Great news! Maybe I will hold out on load re-development.

14 October 2022, 16:30

Mike_Dettorre

CFE 223 and you will be impressed with the velocity.

Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.

What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.

15 October 2022, 19:10

Stonecreek

quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
CFE 223 and you will be impressed with the velocity.

CFE 223 is by far the best powder I've ever used in a .308. High velocities with consistent accuracy.

15 October 2022, 21:07

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Add H 335 to the above list.

opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com

15 October 2022, 22:07

ledvm

If anyone sees any R15 in the FtW/D metroplex…I would appreciate the heads up.

15 October 2022, 22:09

Atkinson

To start with, The 308 is the least picky caliber I know of in regards to powder and bullets for that matter..It just works.

All of the above mentioned in this thread have worked good in my guns. I also like RL15 best as it gets great velocity with any bullet weight and its my best accuracy in my guns with mildest pressure, but IMR-4064, 748, 760 and H414, and CFE-223 are as good it seems so far anyway in my super accurate Savage 99F mostly at 2 grs. under max as its a lever gun. It shoot 1 inch consistantly, and worked in all the 308s Ive owned as I recall. The bolt guns in 308 handled max plus loads with ease..

LIke I said its not picky at all..and tends to be accurate as all get out..

Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com

16 October 2022, 02:39

ledvm

I don’t disagree^^^

I can make a useable hunting load from the 10lbs of AA2230 I have.

But…in my experience…R15 damn near always edges all others out in this caliber on consistent sub MOA loads. I just like it…I know I have a half dozen other choices that will work.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Benchmark.

17 October 2022, 07:43

Wstrnhuntr

Rlr 15 is my favorite for 308 as well, but I am about out too. As mentioned Varget and 4064 are next in line for me.

I did pick a couple Lbs of staball 6.5, havent tried it yet though.

AK-47
The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like.

17 October 2022, 20:04

buckeyeshooter

quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
Varget

me too!

17 October 2022, 20:24

richj

Staball, H-414 and IMR4350 worked great in the 6.5 as well as H4350 but I don't have much of that.

Nos 140gr -
Staball = 43.5
I4350 = 42 - hot by Hodgodon site
H-414 = anything between 39-40 grouped

quote:
Originally posted by thirdbite:
Please post the results when you try the staball 6.5.

18 October 2022, 19:47

Atkinson

I "unloaded" 500 rounds of 30-06 loads to get 600 rounds of rL-15 for my 99F in 308. Im retired and get bored, but it was worth it..I have enough 30-06 ammo to subsidize ww3. Also found a pound of RL-15 and RL-22 at our gun show.

Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com

19 October 2022, 18:35

ledvm

Looking at book data on Varget…it should get similar velocity as R15. I have quite a lot of Varget on hand…mainly because it never turns out to be the best powder for me.

Am going to work on making Varget work in my to go to rifles that like R15 — my .375 H&H and my .308 Win.

I will say though…if I accomplish it…these will be the first 2 standard loadings for me based on Varget. I know a lot of people love it…just never been that good for me — a kissing-your-sister powder.

20 October 2022, 04:33

loud-n-boomer

I have always had good results with IMR 4064, IMR 4895, and H335.

One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx

20 October 2022, 06:28

richj

Anyone use/try AA2520

22 October 2022, 18:18

Pancho

4895 is my go-to w/ 165 Sierra HP.

Pancho
LTC, USA, RET

"Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood

Give me Liberty or give me Corona.

22 October 2022, 18:46

tsturm

quote:
Originally posted by richj:
Varget
Ar-Comp
I-4895

X 2

22 October 2022, 19:05

LHeym500

quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
CFE 223 and you will be impressed with the velocity.

This.

22 October 2022, 20:01

ledvm

OK…found a pound of CFE 223. Will try it first.

25 October 2022, 16:46

ledvm

Can someone tell me what Hodgdon’s max load is for CFE 223 in .308 Win?

25 October 2022, 17:54

LHeym500

I can when I get home.

25 October 2022, 18:03

Ed Scarboro

With a 165gr Hornady SP my records show 48.3gr of CFE 223.

There's plenty of RL15 available around here but IMR powders are nowhere to be found.

25 October 2022, 18:14

ledvm

I wish I had a reason to go to NC!

25 October 2022, 18:18

LHeym500

I am going to try to attach the link from Hodogdon

For CFE 223 and 308 Win

If it does not work I can email it to you.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.c...ter?rdc=true&type=54

25 October 2022, 23:25

ledvm

Thank you kindly Joshua.

I tried that before but couldn’t get it to work. It did this time.

45.4gr to 48.3gr

26 October 2022, 02:16

LHeym500

If you need more, I can send you the full list to an email address tonight. I will be home around 700 pm est.

26 October 2022, 05:52

Buglemintoday

Picked up some cfe223 to try in my .308wcf after reading this thread.

"Let me start off with two words: Made in America"