I have long had an interest in the .338-06 caliber and am looking for some feedback as to bullet weight. For about six years I have used Winchester's Supreme Fail Safe in 230 grains with great success in my Savage stainless synthetic and I am interested in the same bullet in the .338-06. I am interested in this weight/bullet as one load does all. I don't like to change bullet weights, I like simplicity and reliabilty and familiarity. I did the same thing with my carbine, I was looking for a .308 and ended up settling on a 7mm-08 with 140 grain bullets for everything I use it for.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has used the 230 grain Fail Safe in a .338-06 and what kind of results did you have? I am also interested in any feedback as to other bullets/bullet weights. Finally, I don't need a .338-06, but it's something new to play with. Also has anyone tried a .338-06 with a 20" barrel and what kind of results did you have?

First things first. Welcome aboard, Savage.

Second, if you are going to use a "tough" bullet like the fail safe, why would you use such a heavy one? Just wondering. Dutch.

Thanks for the welcome Dutch. I will probably use it primarily for moose and elk but not exclusively. I believe in using fairly heavy weight for caliber. While the 210 Nosler Partition would be ok for lighter game, it just seemed to me anyway that it's a bit light for heavier game. That's why I was leaning towards a heavier weight to use for anything.

I use the 210grNP as my allround hunting bullet in the .338-06. It has performed w/ perfection on duiker to elk & zebra. The only bullet I have yet to recover was from a Kudu bull shot front to back @ about 120yds. Some guys like the 225gr, but I have yet to get anyones 225gr bullet to shoot 1MOA. The 250gr bullets shoot very well but I would use them for woods or jess hunting where shots would be under 250yds.
I am interested in giving Nosler's new 225gr Accubond a try as an allround bullet. It should shoot almost as flat as the 210grNP & still hold together for penetration on elk size game. The .338-06 is a great cart. for NA & most of Africa.
ps: I also can't get the Barnes 'x' to shoot well out of my rifle either.

[ 04-26-2003, 00:13: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

The whole idea behind premium bullets was to overcome the problem of explosive expansion at velocities above "standard." At the velocities you will be getting from your new toy they aren't needed . . . unless your rifle just happens to love that particular bullet and bugholes it. What you are going to have is the latest version of the venerable .318 WR and its direct descendant, the .333 OKH. Both of these made their reputation as deadly killers with standard constructed 250+/- bullets around 24-2500 fps. The formula still works today. If that particular bullet shoots well in your rifle, you have every reason to keep on using it given the KISS principle. However, it was designed for the .338 Win or the totally unecessary .340 Wby. The /06 version has a wonderful reputation. I know that my .318 WR leaves awesome exit holes and I see no reason to anticipate anything less from its grandchild.

Thanks Fred and Sarge. By the sounds of it, you guys seem to favor the 210 weight and by the looks of it you have some experience with this round. As I said before this is a toy for me at this stage so I wasn't sure about the Fail Safe, it was just an idea I had. You fellas didn't mention barrel length so I assume you have 22" barrels. Have either one of you used a 20" barrel or know of anyone who has? This whole project is something for me to play with, but I have an idea in the back of my mind as to where I want to go with it.

Savage, the reason I ask is that I have shot through moose with my Whelen and plain ole 250 Gr. Speers. In my opinion, the conventional bullets are easier to make shoot, a bunch cheaper, and at 2400 fps, they work wonderfully.

That said, I have stashed some 200 gr. .358 GScustom all copper bullets, that I hope to try on elk next year. At 2800 fps, they should do wonders on an elk or moose, too. FWIW, Dutch.

Thanks for the input Dutch. I haven't had a lot to do with Speer but I looked up the difference in price on the internet and it's definitely food for thought. That's interesting that you have a .35 Whelen; I had one a few years back in a Remington 7600 that I enjoyed immensely. After about three years my son needed a rifle so I gave him the Remington. That's the only rifle I regretted getting rid of. I really liked that pump action.

I took a newer M70 and had a 24" Lilja installed and chambered in .338-06. Installed a 2.5-8X Leupold in Talleys and its a neat rig.
I've been real loyal to the 250 Nosler partition and 250's in general as I wanted a poor mans .318 Westley Richards sort of rifle. I'm not a big velocity guy, I'd rather have good placemt with foolproof pentration.
Finished the rifle and pretty quickly took it to RSA. I only had time to load some 250 Swift A-Frames which shot very accurately but at a mere 2400 fps. Shot; red hartebeest,impala,waterbuck and a truly large livingston eland, all with one shot each. The .338-06 worked very well. Tremendous penetration too.

At home I then tried some 225 partitions at 2600 fps on a mature bull elk at 300+ yds. One shot kill with the bull traveling maybe 30-50 yds.

Quite a few VERY knowledgeable posters here really like the 210 Nosler partitons. I've not tried them. The 225 and 250 loads are probably all I'll ever use. Really neat cartridge. I'm still surprised than Winchester or Remington hasn't chambered a factory rifle yet!!!

Try one. You'll like it.

FN in MT

Thanks for your letter Frank. Like you, I lean towards heavier bullet weight but as you say there are a lot of knowledgeable guys out there who favor the 210 gr. Nosler. I guess a lot of it goes to personal preference. The great thing about a forum is the wealth of knowledge to draw on. Those were pretty impressive results you've had with yours. I'm also surprised as well that one of the big manufacturers hasn't seen fit to produce a .338-06. Personally, I think the .338-06 is greatly underrated. Too bad Remington wouldn't make one in the 7600.

I love the 338/06...magnum performance without the recoil. I shoot 250 gr "X" bullets and 225 Noslers. Have had no problems with either on elk or deer. Accuracy is outstanding.
I think that the heavier bullets really bring out the best in this caliber. If you want to shoot 180's and 210's why not just go with the 30-06?

swede

I agree that a remington pump or auto would be great in a 338/06. Big Green chambered in the past for 35Whelen and look what those used guns are bringing now...

Weatherby has brought out a lightweight rifle chambered for 338-06. They are pretty but I haven't shot one yet.

swede

Has any body tried the 275 gr. Speer SP? They also make a 275gr. African Grand Slam Solid. Those bullets should put the 338-06 well into 318WR and 333 Jeffery territory.

I only have range experience with my 338-06 and have only developed loads up to 215 gr but still working on the others. Speer no longer makes the 270 gr but Swift does in 275 I think.I like the 180 to 200 gr bullets for the deer here. However if Elk or Moose were on the menu I think it would be the 250 Nosler. The 338-06 is a fun round and people give you some strange looks at the range when you tell them what you shooting. If you need loads let me know I have a spread sheet of them I have collected. Just remember safe loading is start 10% below those listed.

Hi Wyoming Swede, That's kind of where I was thinking, that 210 was close to .30-06 territory. As I had said earlier, I had been thinking about the Fail Safe 230 gr. mostly because it's what I am familiar with. You said you've been using Barnes X 250 gr. which is similar; have you had any problems with them opening up at .338-06 speeds? Since I started this topic and we've had a couple of mentions of the Remington 7600, it jogged my memory and I checked a book I bought several years ago called the Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges by Wolfe Publishing and in chapter 7 there is an article authored by a fellow named Jay Turner who did in fact make a .338-06 with a Remington 7600. So even though I originally planned on a bolt action, it's awfully tempting.

Hey 49494, I know a good gunsmith who will give that 338/06 remingtom pump a bump into existence. E-mail me if interested.

I have never had any bad results with either the 250 gr "X" or Nosler Partition. When I first put the rifle together I did a test with 15 waterfilled milk jugs. I fired the x from 50 yds. It penetrated through and came to rest in milk jug #14. I found a couple expansion petals in #4. I weighed the remaining bullet on my scale...240.5 grains. I recovered a bullet out of the last off elk shoulder...it weighed the same...240 grains.

My $.02

swede

I think what makes the 210NP such a good marrage w/ the .338-06 is a good SD (about like a 180gr .308) that you can push fast enough for good expansion @ some distance.
I can easily get 2750fps from my 22 1/2"bbl. Even though a 200gr .308 has a better SD, you would be hard pressed to get more than 2600fps from a 22" bbl.(exp. will suffer as range increases). Add to this the greater frontal area & I think it's good medicine when you are shooting 50-350yds. The longest shot I have taken w/ this rig was a big bull elk @ just over 325yds. the bullet showed little expansion @ that distance (exited from a broadside heart shot). The only bullet I have recovered was from a front to back, left to right shot on a Kudu bull. The bullet balled up just behind the last rib & weighs 168gr, showing a perfect mushroom to the partition. The distance was about 120-125yds.
But, for closer work I would definetly go to a good 250gr bullet & be happy. I'm saving a box of 275gr Speers for my new .338x74keith!

[ 04-27-2003, 10:17: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

Fred, most of my shots seem to be within 250 yards so I haven't been overly concerned with velocity. I was interested in your previous letter about the 225 gr. Accubond. I wasn't even aware of it but I am going to do some more research on it. I also found the North Fork 225 gr. on the web which is similar to the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw in design, a bullet I have tremendous respect for. Ah, so many choices, so little time.

I shot the 338-06 both standard and Improved versions for many years, I got the impression it did its best work with the 210 Noslers..They are a phenominal bullet in the 33-06 and the 338 win.

I had good luck with it and I liked the caliber, but I finally figured out the 338 Win. would do anything the 338-06 would do and a bunch more and in the same size action.

I mostly shoot the 300 gr. Woodleighs these days in the 338 Win. but still like the 210 NOsler in both 338's..I can't tell any difference in the claimed recoil reduction between the two, it is so slight that it is mostly hype to make a point in case for the 338-06.

Bottom line is why not go the 338 Win. route and pick up the extra FPS and if I wanted a 338-06 then I would just load the 338 Win. down. That is a decision I have never regretted and I think most 338-06 user finally figure out.

Another reason is I started shooting the 9.3x62 and it also took the 338-06's place...

The 338-06 is still a fine caliber, I am just stating my experiences on the subject and how it worked for me over a number of years.

Hi Ray, and thanks for your input. I do own a .338 Win. Mag. and I agree that there's not much it won't do. Recoil has never been an issue with me. As I said earlier this is mostly something for me to play with, something to keep me off the streets, lol. I am leaning towards a rifle with a 20" barrel to make it a little handier. Gary Sitton (if I remember right he was with Hunting Magazine) built a .338-06 Improved on a 20" barrel a few years back and did reasonably well on elk with it. I am not interested in the Improved version because I already have the Win Mag. Also, while I started out with a bolt action in mind, I am giving very serious consideration to a Remington 7600. So while the .338 Win. Mag. will do everything a .338-06 will do and more, it wont' work in a 20" barrel or a pump action. Anyway, that's why I haven't gone the route you were talking about.

Savage, I would never think of disagreeing w/ Ray, but I think there is a diff. in recoil (about 10ft.lbs). Not alot but enough that you can drop 1# or so from the .338-06 & still have a comfortable shooting rifle. I can shoot my 8 1/2# .338-06 all day from the bench w/o bother. I can't say the same for my buddys .338WM in the same weight rifle.
A 20" bbl. Mannlicher stocked .338-06 would be a great woods rifle. You could probably still get close to 2500fps w/ a 250gr bullet. Hmmm, maybe one of those CZFS in 9.3x62? BTW, Ray is spot on (as usual)about the 210grNP in this cart.

[ 04-28-2003, 23:45: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

Fred, therin lies the dilemna. I'm a sucker for Mannlicher stocked rifles, but I've also been known to have a weakness for the Remington 7600. Whichever way I go, it should be a fun summer. I usually don't bother with forums much, but I've been truly amazed at the wealth of knowledge in these forums and by the willingness of hunters and shooters to share that knowledge. It just confirms what I've always known, that this is a special group of people.

Now a 7600 in 9.3x62 gets my attention, a pump 375 H&H that recoils like a 35 Whelen...Hmmmmm, then again they make that gun in a 35 Whelen.. No, I would prefer the 9.3x62, man what an idea!! You could sew a stitch in a bear with that fast operating potent number, He's be whistling who'd a thought it!!!

Hi Ray, I've had a 7600 in .35 Whelen and I'll tell you it is one neat rifle. I gave it to my son when he needed a rifle and now the little bugger won't even let me fire it. Anyway, I've been thinking about it in the .338-06.

I liked that .35 Whelen a lot and the 9.3X62 is fairly close but a little more effective with the 286 gr. bullets. I never thought about that caliber in a 7600 but I'll bet you would really enjoy it. Man, that caliber would be a hoot in a pump action.

Yeah, and then you apply the Davis/Lockyear Assault Rifle Conversion Kit. That's a couple of 10 round magazines from Cabela's and a pistol grip fiberglass stock like the police use on their 870s. Add a 1.5 or 2X scope and jes' rumble them b'ars! (Not to mention any heavy weight bad guys that show up . . . like Davis and Lockyear!)