I don't know if everyone else has this happen to them, but if I start relying on a product, as soon as I do, the manufacturer has some reason to quite making it.

When it comes to my general all around big game hunting,
I have sure learned to appreciate the 6.5 x 55 caliber and the 7 x57 calibers.

I hunt a lot with Ruger 77 Mark2s in both of these calibers, for deer, elk, and bear here in Oregon. These Rugers are accurate, and well balanced Rifles, and really are nice walking up and down mountain sides here in this state.

Of course, the scopes on these rifles are Leupold Vari X 2's in a black matte finish. One has a Target dot, one has a Heavy German Number One reticle, and the other has a Heavy Duplex.

Well, I don't own a short magnum cartridge, and see no reason for them. 2004, I am obsolete. Ruger canned both the 6.5 x 55 and the 7 x 57 this year! They are replacing them with Winchester and Remington short magnums of all sorts.

Leupold is canning the Vari X 2s, that I love so much.

So now I am all loaded for Bear with obsolete calibers, and scopes. TYPICAL HUH?????

Well, I am not rushing out and buying a new Short Action magnum of some sort. I am not replacing my VariX 2, with whatever Leupold is coming out now with, regardless if it is the Walmart Leupold scopes or whatever wonderful Idea they have now.

Really starting to feel like those guys in the 1950s must have felt, when all of a sudden the 250 Savage, the 257 Roberts, 300 Savage, the 30/40 Krags, the Old Lever Action cartridges were all of a sudden becoming obsolete. They needed to " get with the program" and buy a New Magnum of some sort, to be able to kill what the older calibers had been doing all along.

Well, me and my 100 yd old plus calibers, and my Obsolete Leupold scopes are fading into history I guess. But I still think it will be a cold day in hell, before I see anything that will improve on what I was hunting with last season.

Maybe after the short magnum craze and Leupold and everyone comes out with their new overpriced "trendy" scopes, maybe, phasers and x ray vision and Beam Me Up Scotty, will be the next phase of hunting rigs.

At this point, I actually feel "obsolete" is actually a COOL place to be!
Long live the 7 x 57, the 6.5 x 55 and the good old Leupold Vari X 2s!!!

Frankly, I wouldn't chamber any gun for a cartridge that hasn't been around for at least a century. I want proven staying power!

The new short mags etc. do nothing for me, but those fine old rounds like the 9.3, .375 and .416 Rigby just ooze class and there what I enjoy stuffing about with.

I could buy the rifle, VX-III, brass, and dies and be a modern hunting with the short magnums.

But at CompUSA, I don't what half the stuff is for

These new short, stubby cartridges look to me like the makers are trying to reinvent the 8mm Lebel.

Hell, I feel a lot better now - as I rush towards becoming obsolete myself.

My large mouse rifle is a 1918 Martini-Henry Cadet in .300 Sherwood, the small game rifle is a 1945 M70 in 250-3000. This year I hope to take my 1910 M-10 0.280 Ross into the field with 140 gn GS Custom Bullets (if he delivers of course) after Mountain Reedbuck. In the pipeline, for Kudu/Gemsbok sized animals, I have a Africa Model Mauser in 8 x 57 (full octagon tapered barrel)(time to retire the 8x68S)- and my larger than kudu calibre is that old, pre .375 H&H standby - the 9.3 x 62.

You can only kill them once - there are no degrees of killing

cheers edi

The replacement for the Vari-X II, the V-X II is a vast improvement for about the same money.

It now has 1/4" click adjustments and the same lens coating as the V-X III.

Low light performance is vastly superior to the Vari-X IIs that I have, right on a par with the Kahles 3-9X42 that I own, and I always rated it as awesome.

th VX-II is still alive and well... don't worry man, they just updated a few things.

I gotta agree with my compadre that said don't buy none of 'em til they been around a 100 years. My gunmaker has tried the new Rem magnums and Win magnums and says they don't do a thing the older ones did not do well, and the short cases do create some feeding problems.

The rounds you mentioned both have a warm spot for me. And as I get older (become more obsolete??), the recoil of some of the magnums becomes more punishing to the arthritis in my neck. The 308 and 270 and 6.5 and 7x57 look better and better. Ku-dude

I just do my best to maintain balance. Last year, I bought a 223WSSM with a Sightron on top, and 358Win with a Leupold. That way, whichever way the trend goes, I'm ahead of the curve...... LOL! Dutch.

seafire/ B17G

I used to buy a lot of the new flashy things. I noted that very few things were offering any real advantages over the old stuff. I think that some makers forgets that hunting is more about knowlegde and marksmanship than haveing the latest cartridge. I have not seen any animals that refused to die of the "canned" camberings

Today, only one rifle I own, is younger than me. The rest is old farts of ancient construction They got charm, quality, traditions and history.

Cheers
JOHAN

I can see by reading the replys to this post, I am in good company. I always love to hear from the guys from Scandanavia, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

There is a lot more common sense still in existance there than here in the USA. I don't know if I need a cartridge to be a 100 years old to peak my interest.

However, if my collection consisted only of all or any of the following, I would not feel slighted in life at all.
223, 22/250, 243, 6mm Rem, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 260 Rem, 6.5 x 55, 6.5 x 57 ( my favorite) 7 x 57, 270 Win, 7/08, , 30/30, 30/40 Krag, 30/06, 8 x 57, 338/06, 444 Marlin, 45 ACP, 45 Long Colt.

No that I own any of these, or ever have, but any owner of them is always welcome at my camp fires. 220 Swift, 219 Donaldson, 219 Wasp, 219 Zipper, 25/35, 25/20, 32 Winchester, 32/40, ( 32/20,maybe) , 35 Whelan, 9.3 x 62, or 9.3 x 57, 375 H&H!!!, 416 Rigby, 45/70, 45/90, 45/110, 50/70, 50/90, 50/110, 40/65!!! ( another favorite) 33 Winchester, 348 Winchester, and a host of other cool old lever action calibers.


All of this new stuff, may give someone an extra 50 yds, point blank range at all. In my book, footpounds does not kill anywhere near as reliable as shot placement. Maybe with these calibers, those shooting them are a lot more reliable about achieving shot placement, instead of trying to hit something at 1,000 yds.

Glad to see I am in good company. Good company is also becoming a treasured gift as my years get up to numbers that should be belonging to my granddad.

Hell, seafire, I have just knuckled under and sent my 86 off to be bore and rechambered to 38-56, now that hornaday has dropped the flat point bullets for the 33, I have been offered some modern rifles over the last few months, but as it stands even my newest one is a No-1 converted to 450 Nitro, I love old calibers and guns

No I don't think you are becoming obsolete. Well again maybe.

The one nice thing about this country is choice. I do most of my deer hunting with a sav 99 in 300. I well not past up a good rifle in any caliber if I like it old or new. I have killed game near and far. With calibers from 22rf on up I find it is not the caliber that matters it is the shooter and if knows his limits any caliber will do.

I haven't brought a new short mag any thing I guest My newest old cailber is a 300 win mag. Or is it my 416 taylor they are both fairly old now. That said if some one offers me a good deal on a new short mag caliber it well be sitting in the gun safe. In 50 years they well be old calibers.

So don't get your pants in a uproar rifles last a long time enjoy them all.

ONE HUNDRED YEARS?

Guess I'm already using the new stuff.....30-06, .270 Win., .375 H&H, .35 Whelen.... Guess by the time I'm 80 they will all be a century old and I'll be a TRADITIONALIST! .

Short Magnums? Ultra Mag's? A solution for which there is no problem.

Rich Elliott

I guess that it is a good thing, then, that there is a whole generation of wet-behind-the-ears shooters out there to keep the rifle companies in business! The worst enemy of the new gun business isn't anti-gunners, it's the used gun business. Firearms are immortal when cared for, that's one thing I love about them. When I look back, my first centerfire was a 7x57. Then I bought a .375, acquired a .22/250, bought a .318 WR, acquired a .300 H&H, bought a 9.3x62, a 6.5x54, a .404 Jeff and a .450 Rigby (not in anything approximating that order!) The only cartridge younger than me is the Rigby! Up old farts and ancient guns!

You're not obsolete, I do most of my deer hunting with a 03/A3 my grandfather gave to me when it was too heavy for him to carry, it wears a 4 power Weaver scope. My handloads shoot about an inch at 100 yds and thats plenty accurate for huntin deer in the northeast. I have a safe full of more modern rifles but still hunt with the one grandpa gave me and I harvested my 1st deer with. It's nostalgic and traditional to shoot the older rifles and everytime I pull that rifle out it reminds me of grandpa. So let call me obsolete too, the trophy room and freezer don't care!!!!

well, i like the cut of this thread. i shoot a sporterized m96 in 6.5x55 (no, i didn't do it; already done on a mismatched one; am working on a nice walnut stock); two m44 mosin nagants, both sporterized (hey they were only $89 each; one is slimmed into a light single shot, both shoot 7.62x54r mil-surp and handloads very well); one ftrf'd no. 4 mark 1* in, of course, .303 british.
i have never kept a "modern" rifle more than a year. too boring i guess, no romance, no oddity.
the swede by summer's end will wear the best piece of glass i can afford but it will be a fixed power, probably either leupold or weaver or ior-valdada.

And here I thought this thread was going to be about the SAUM's!

Seafire,

You have hit upon a huge pet peeve of mine in the gun industry. The firearms companies do not need to bring out new chamberings to catch my interest, what I want is a better rifle. I, like must of the posts here, have no modern chamberings other then the 416 RM in the Win Model 70, I rarely pruchase a new rifle, preferring the older models. For instance, the best Remington, IMO,ever made was the model 725, nice stock, nice action, good three position safety, why would they change other then to make a cheaper rifle that they could increase profits on. Don't get me wrong, profits are important, but I believe must are willing to pay a little more for a better rifle.

BigBullet

I guess I fit in this mix as well. Started with a .270(who woulda guessed?). Then inheireted a Marlin '94 in 25-20, and bought a '94 Win for cast bullets. Moved up to a 22-250 and .223 for the youngsters in the safe. Next came the real workhorse of the collection, a 51 year old 250-3000 Savage 99. Just added the up and coming 257 Bob, so I guess I am getting somewhat modern! Steve

Not hardly Marsh! NO Short Ulta Mags in my house! or Threads!

RSY,

I am sad to say, try and locate the 6.5 x 55 and the 7 x57 in the 2004 Ruger Catalog. ONLY the 7 x57 in a Ruger No One is still being offered this year.

Believe me brother, I wish I was WRONG.

I also saw that the 6.5x55 and 7x57 were still listed on the Ruger web site but I'm not surprised that you say that they're missing from the 2004 catalog. It seems that it takes a lot of firearms related companies a while to update their web sites. Well, it's a pity that Ruger has stopped chambering for them (in the M77s). But, NEW sells and I'm sure Ruger is just trying to offer what will sell. Your average Joe Blow (at least in the U.S.) has probably read about the WSMs and SAUMs but has probably never heard of a 7x57 much less a 6.5x55.

Just my two cents worth....
-Bob F.

I'll drink to that! Preferably with some decent claret, don'tcherknow, or some of that vintage port m'father laid down when I was born. Every lad ought to have a good pipe of the stuff to start out life. Ain't been really decent idea in shootin' for a hundred years? Damned straight!

I am of the firm opinion that the new short magnums are just a fad that the arms makers are pushing in order to boost gun sales - they offer nothing that the older cartridges can't already do and with less magazine capacity and more feeding problems - they must think we are stupid!



Maybe I am obsolete, too, but I really get off on cartridges like the .250 Savage, 7x57, .30/40 Krag, .404 Jeffrey, .405 Winchester, 9.3x62 and 9.3x64 to name just a couple of gems from the past - they are proven performers.

One hundred year old cartridges? Well, when I started putting together my little battery, I didn't go quite that far back. I figured pre-WWI (1914 or earlier) was a good cut off point. Think of all the good cartridges that came along in that time period (say 1895-1914). I've cheated a little and allowed a few newer cartridges into my battery but not many. I also wanted a collection of cartridges where none of them had Winchester or Remington in their name just to be different. And, of course, nostalgia plays a big part for me.

Here's my examples from by battery:
7x57 (aka .275 Rigby; had one but gave it to a friend)
.30-06 Springfield
.338-06 (my poor man's substitute for the .318 W-R; close enough)
.35 Whelen (a classic in it's own right but from the 1920s; my poor man's substitute for the .350 Rigby Magnum and its ballistics)
.375 H&H Magnum
.416 Rigby
.470 NE

And I just had to sneak the .300 H&H Magnum into my battery even though it was post-WWI. I suspect that H&H would have introduced it sooner if WWI hadn't intervened. And I'm getting an itch for a 9.3x62 just for fun. (As you can probably tell, I like medium bores.) A 6.5x55 would also be good for something on the smaller side.

It's amazing what a good versatile battery one can put together buying new or fairly recent production rifles that are chambered in the old cartridges.

-Bob F.

Not 100yrs, but getting there. 7x64, 9.3x57, 9.3x64 and 35 Whelen(AI), and my Grand Dad's 16ga M12. The two Brennekes are going to Namibia with me this September. Bob

HMMM, Don't think I have any Centurians in my locker, but they're not making what I have in any abundance if at all.

7x64, .358Win, .Bob, .30-30, .405Win., .22K-Hornet. I guess the .44Mag is still rollin', and the .22rf. The 16Ga seems to be making a bit or a return. I used to have a 7x57, am searching for another.

RSAUM - Really Short AttentionSpan & Unbelievably Mediocre.
WSM - We're Surely Melodramatic
RUM - Radiating Undignified Manners
WSSM - See WSM, add Shifty &

That is all.

asdf,

No exception, huh? Does that mean I'm gonna have to use iron sights?
Rich Elliott

Ted Trueblood used to preach :
"if you find something that you really like,buy a lifetime supply as they will stop making it!!

I'll bet if I look in most peoples gun racks I'll find a .308Win, .30-06, .243Win.. and possibly a .222Rem.
Most people have one so they aren't apt to buy another. Market economics say they're no longer sellers,
quick - produce something else and make it sound even better than what we have so they'll buy it. Our
grandfathers with their .219Donaldson, .250Savages, .257Roberts and .300Savages were no worse off than
we are today. Same thing for the metric calibers we hate to produce; the 6.5x55, the 7x57 and 8x57.
Try to tell one of their owners he's got yesterdays rifle, and probably he'll laugh at you and justly so. I
think the problem is that many of us simply aren't buying the new is better song anymore. I know I'm not.
There's no point in telling us that we have to support the economy, keep America strong etc. If that were
true why are they moving all our jobs out of the country. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Gentlemen



What annoys me is that makers tries to push new products that are poorly fitted and tacky just to press the prices.



I would be more than happy to by a new Winchester for three or four times the price. But then I want good quality and have some options to choose from. I could easily wait a while for such rifle. The makers should hire rifle loonies and not nitwits who sold garden supplies before. For "Joe the sales guy" rifles is just like any other product and doesn't give rats ass about most things



I will continue to buy mausers untill something happends



Cheers

/ JOHAN

Johan,

Maybe your dreams could come true. YOU can buy a Winchester that has tons of options, is available in a wide variety of calibers, and is beautifully finished.

You can order different barrel lengths, even octagon barrels in blued or stainless steel, and even have you name engraved on it.

It is called the Custom Shop at Winchester. They even agree with your " I'd pay 4 times as much" statement, as that is what they charge.

However if a man did not " think" he needs a ton of rifles like I have but don't need ( we don't have a limit like Sweden does), then a couple of very nice custom rifles would be a lot more realistic investment.

Check them out, maybe you can find 'Euphoria' in a rifle.

Once again, a good old military Mauser sure can be the heart of a good rifle also. Wish I could visit Sweden, and then come home with a bunch of cheap but excellent shaped surplus Mauser 96's. I treasure the 1920 Made Swedish Target rifle I have.

cheers!