Hello Gents,

I was checking out Saeeds reloading section, and noticed they have tested a rifle chambered for the 338/404. Unfortunately, the picture of the cartridge on that page was not working. Not that it's real important, as I can pretty much image how it looks.

Has anyone here worked with this cartridge? For strictly personal reasons, I don't wish to build a 338RUM, and I thought this would be a very good substitute. If anyone has tips on different reamer versions, dies, load data, etc. it would be most appreciated.

While I'm asking, any thoughts on the 338 Laupa?

Thanks.

Brian,

John S, the moderator on Africa has a 33 Gun and Ammo which will be the same thing.

So would a 300 Ultra necked up to 338.

But don't forget that the 2.85" case will be a bit long if you want seat heavier 338 bullets to the cannelure, which is why the 338 Ultra is a bith shorter than the 300 and 375 RUMs.

I suppose a natural for the 338 Lapua would be a rebarrel on a CZ 416 Rigby. Cases are a bit bigger than the 338 Ultra and case length is the same at about 2.75. However the price of brass would be very high.

Mike

Brian,

You might also want to take a look at the .330 Dakota, a shortened .404 case version of your .338-.404.

The factory loads are a 210 grain @ 3,200 fps and a 250 grain @ 2,900 fps.

jim dodd

Mike and Jim,

Thanks for the help.

The 330 Dakota is a nice cartridge, that's for sure. But, I'm not limiting myself to a standard length "magnum" action. The rifle, when built will be machined to accept a 375H&H length cartridge. I know it will need to be machined, because finding left-handed magnum action, in stainless steel, is darn near impossible.

I've searched for info on the G&A series cartridges, and am not having much luck finding anything.

I really like the plain jane 338/404 theory. What I'd like, is to equal or beat the 338RUM in a nice CRF rifle.

Thanks again.

Brian,

A straight 338/404 would be about 340 Wby size.

From an economy point of view it is best to use something where the reamer and die maker already have the body/shouler done. For example, 375/416 Rigby dies from Redding are around $140US. But 450 Rigby dies are $400US. The reason is the 450 Rigby is an improved 416 Rigby necked up whereas the 375/416 uses the same body and shoulder as the 416 Rigby.

I would either go 33 G&A or the version Saaed used since he will have probably had either RCBS or Redding dies made for it.

There won't be much info about on them but then again, what would you need to know that you don't already know?

Mike

BW.
If you want to give the 338 RUM a beat, go for the 338 Lapua Mag. And if you want more than that, improve it or go for the 8,59 Titan.
I have a 338 RUM buildt for me these days, though!

460,

The 338 Laupa is quite intersting. I'll start looking into it, but if you have any tips on suitable action sizes, bolt face size, magazine capacity for Win Classic M70 type actions, etc. I'd love to hear them.

I know the brass is expensive, but I could probably get by with just 100 cases for awhile.

Thanks again

I know this is really "retro", but if you want the easiest route to the power level you are describing then the .340 Wby is the way to go. I have considered the fully improved .338/.404 but it offers less than 100 fps more velocity than my .340 Wby. That is a measly 30 yards of increased range. The brass is Midway stocked Remington brand .300 Wby ($38 per 100) that is run through the $25 Hornady (or pick your flavor) dies and voila! you're done. You also don't have to fool with the oddball action size for the Lapua behemoth or the magazine feeding questions with the fatter cases. I don't have any complaints, but were I to pursue your path my preference would be a .300 RUM necked up. I don't know why they shortened the .338 RUM given that they went back to the full length case on the .375 RUM and OAL would be a worse problem with a larger diameter bullet (though most bullets have a protruding length standardized around 0.70 - 0.80 inches).

BW.
The boltface on the 338 Lapua is similar to the 416 Rigby. You'll need a long action. Of course, the original Sako TRG-S is good. It is delivered in this caliber as a factory chambering. An other alternative is to rebarrel a CZ550 (BRNO 602), 416 RIGBY, Weatherby or something like that. You'll need a action than can take fat cases with a lenght of approx. 91-94mm.
A buddie of mine has one of those Sako's, and he love it. It is extreme accucarate. With proper loads he manage to get 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards.

BW - I own both a .330 Dakota and the .338 Lapua. I am not sure what you are gunning for, however, the .330 Dakota is a great field rifle. Recoil is very manageable and as HunterJim pointed out, I can get 2900+/- fps with a 250gr Nosler Partition Gold behind 82.5gr of H-4831SC, but I load it to 2800+/- fps.

My .338 Lapua is set up as a LR target/Varmint gun. It sports a 30" Krieger barrel. Recoil is considerable even with plenty of gun weight. It is not something that I would like to carry around in the field. If you built a field gun at 9 lbs, recoil will be a handful to say the least.

Zero Drift,

Thanks for the reply and help.

I'm looking for a cartridge which will equal or preferably ( ) beat the 338RUM. While it would be great if it fits in a standard size action, I'd be willing to use a true magnum length action.

Right now I'm hearing reports of the 338RUM pushing 210gr bullets to 3400fps. HunterJim (thanks HunterJim) has listed 3200fps with a factory load in that weight. Have you tried any 210gr bullets?

I'm getting the impression that the 338 Laupa is a bit much for a normal (9.5lbish) hunting rifle. If it needs those long barrels, to achieve it's velocities, I'm inclined to look elsewhere, like the Dakota version. Or as mentioned in my original post, a non-shortened version of the 338 Dakota/338-404 cartridge.

Thanks again folks, for helping me think through this process. All your advice was much appreciated. I'm always open for more too.

My cousin has a .338 Lapua in a Sako TRG-S rifle. It is 9 pounds field ready. The actual cartridge is a necked down .416 Rigby. I have not shot his rifle, but according to him it kicks about 3 times as much as a .30-06. Ballisticaly it is similar to the .330 Dakota- 250 gr.@2900-fps.

I think the .338 Lapua is not a just a necked down .416 Rigby, but is shortened too, to have only as much capacity as the old .338-.378 KT. More fun could be had with the full-length version, perhaps with a good sharp shoulder to enhance accuracy as well.

Factory ballistics for the .338-.378 Weatherby are a 250 grainer at 3050 fps (?). Either of these would be easy to do in a CZ 550, and of course a .338-.378 can be had at most any Weatherby dealer.

Gentlemen,

Case capacity of our 338/404 and the 338 Lapua is almost exactly the same. At least it is with the brass we have.

If you are looking to beat the 338 RUM/ Lapua/ 404, which btw are pretty much the same. You need to look at the 338/416 Imp. The Lapua is a shortened version of the Rigby, not a straight neck down. The 338/416 Imp is being used by some 1000 yard shooters in competition today. Another option would be 338 Tomahawk, which is a 300 RUM necked up to 338 and improved. Ray Romain in PA has the reamer for this round. For any of these rounds to be useful though, you'll want to go with at least a 30" barrel, preferbly 32-34", or you'll just be wasting more powder, rather than gain velocity.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Saeed,

Which has the bigger case capacity.

338/404 Improved with brass you use
338 Lapua with Lapua brass
338 Lapua Norma brass
338 Rem Ultra

Mike

Mike,

All the above, with the exception of Norma 338 Ultra brass which I do not have, have the same capacity.

110-112 grains of water.

Saeed,

The Lapua brass must be much thicker given the case dimensions.

I can see how the 338/404 Imp would be similar to the 338 Ultra because the few grains gain in extra body length of the 338/404 would be offset by the bigger diameter of the 338 Ultra case.

I suppose I will have to have an "I told you so" of John S

So Saeed, this all means that I don't have to worry about changing 2 Wbys in 30/378 and 338/378
to 30 Lapua and 338 Lapua.

Bt it must be solid brass in the Lapua 338 Lapua.

Mike

Saeed,

Is your 338/404 an Imp version if so, what shoulder angle did you go with? I am looking at a 338 Tomahawk which is a full length RUM case with a 35* shoulder. A gentlemen on antoher board has built the 300 Tomahawk and is getting great results.

I don't think the 338 RUM has a larger body diameter than the 338/404 Imp as they are based on the same case only the RUM has a rebated rim to fit in factory remington actions.

338Lapua,

I think you will find that both the Rem Ultra and WSMs are a few thou bigger in diameter than the 404 case.

Mike

HI

I would go for the 338-404/ 33G&A. Better quality of brass than the RUM. 404 cases could be found anywhere .

The RUM brass I have seen has NOT been impressive. I have an old article about the 33 cal from Seyfried. My choice would be 340 wby, 338-404. 338 Lapua does not gain anything compared to the 404 based cartridges, brass is more expensive. To bad that no factory could draw the standard for a 338-404.

Norma has made som experiments with the 338 RUM but I'm not sure what has happend.

JOHAN