gal...

I had mine built on an FN '98 military action (Greek) and it is a great platform for this cartridge.

The 'smith I chose has built quite a few Whelens and he, too, recommends using 250gr. and heavier bullets, and a 1:14 or 1:12 twist, with the 1:14 the more versatile in his opinion.
I went with a 1:14 Shilen barrel and it does very well with 250 gr. bullets. I've also used 270 gr. Northforks and they also shoot well. A 1:12 might handle the Northforks a bit better, perhaps not. I am accuracy good enough for hunting purposes.

I have the original 1923 American Rifleman as well as Whelen's 1940 book. As noted they are somewhat contradictory, but as a matter of logic I would tend to credit TW's 1923 article, contemporary with the development of the cartridge, in preference to his recollection so many years later. BTW I have his Springfield which was originally made circa 1922 by Howe as the first .400 and which Whelen circa 1950 had rebarreled to .35 by Culver and used for the NRA's development of .35 Whelen loads.

I like the 35 Whelen. So much, that I bought a reamer and have built five rifles chambered for it, I kept one for myself. All used 14" twist tubes. Mine does and honest 2725fps with the 225 Partition and it's NOT a short range rifle. Sighted 2-1/2" high at 100M, it's 9" low at 300M.The only complaint I have with mine is the 9# weight. This is with a Remington magnum contour barrel at 24" in a long 700 action, in an HS Sporter stock with a 3-9X Leupold in Dual Dovetails. I have another tube here, this time a standard Remington contour which I plan to build on a long 700 at 22" (maybe I'll flute it too) in a lighter stock. One of the 35 Whelens I built for a guy in BC ended up at 7lbs in a Wildcat stock. Lots of power in a light package...

I bought a Remington 700 CDL 35 Whelen last year and was concerned with the long throat,If I loaded to .040 off lands it won't fit in the magazine.Weatherby did well with alot of freebore so I guess Remington wanted to try it.It shoots 225 gr ballistic tips at 1 1/2 inches and partitions 2 inches so far,I want to play with bullet depth to try for better groups.Hornady 250 gr seated at cannular shoots a hair over 1 inch.I love the caliber and want to get partitions to shoot as well as hornadys,any tips?Drop-Shot

Drop shot..you didnt mention what powder you are using..

My Whelen was shooting 1.5-2 inch groups..using imr4895...when I went to IMR4064 the groups shrank up to .75" with the 225 Sierras..and the Hornady 250 are right at an inch.

I plan to try RL15..but havent got started on that project yet...

Zeeriverrat

All I can say is Thank You for confirming I am not crazy. I had researched the 35 Whelen for a year and then went to the local gun show looking for a project rifel. Low and behold I found a 1917 action with a 22" douglas 1-14 in a polymer stock. Since I had just purchased a sporterized 1917 from my hunting partner I could not pass this up. Now I am thinking about having a 1-12 barrel put on the 1917 06.

During my research I just could not justify having a 338-06 instead of the Whelen. Look at the versitility, .358 200-grain cast lead bullets that fit my S&W .38 or my Whelen. It just doesn't get any better...

quote:

Originally posted by Drop-Shot:
I bought a Remington 700 CDL 35 Whelen last year and was concerned with the long throat,If I loaded to .040 off lands it won't fit in the magazine.Weatherby did well with alot of freebore so I guess Remington wanted to try it.It shoots 225 gr ballistic tips at 1 1/2 inches and partitions 2 inches so far,I want to play with bullet depth to try for better groups.Hornady 250 gr seated at cannular shoots a hair over 1 inch.I love the caliber and want to get partitions to shoot as well as hornadys,any tips?Drop-Shot

After I built my Whelen I had the leade of the reamer shortened by .080". This puts the base of a 250 Speer at the neck/shoulder junction when you are about .030" off the lands...perfect. I've only built one so far with this modified reamer,which is the 7# one that's in BC.

"Not for nothin, but the 1903 is the classic 35 whelen action."

That's great, unless you happen to be a southpaw, which I am...

That means mine is being built on an action from Montana Rifleman, and with a McGowen barrel. Plans are to have it be as close to a British-style safari rifle as my smith can make it... Along with it becoming my primary hunting rifle, I expect to feed it a reasonably steady diet of RCBS 35-200 cast.

I was at the SAXET gun show in San Antonio several years ago and saw a M700 Classic in .35 Whelen. The price was right and I had the money in my pocket, but passed it up. Why oh why did I do that?

I got my 35 Whelan in Remington 700 BDL back in '89. It's killed 8-9 elk and a good half dozen deer. Probably the best elk cartridge there is for shots under 300 yards. I've killed elk farther with it but it had alot to do with luck and not to much skill.

I use 250 grain Hornady spire points, 61.5 grains of H4350 and Federal large rifle primers and can cloverleaf 5 shots at 100 yds. :D

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
gal:My Whelen is twisted 1/16, and it shoots the 250 grainers into 3 shot groups under an inch, at about 2625fps. The 225 Ballistic tips, are right at 2700fps, and about the same groups as the Speers. What a great cartridge it is!

This is what I have been looking for... I keep reading on all the forums that one just "MUST" have a 1/12 or 1/14" twist to shoot heavy bullets in .35 caliber guns but absolutly no one has posted groups from 1/16 or even said how big their groups are... So for those of you who have guns of different twist rate could you please post what exactly the difference in groups are...

Thank you...Bob

Excellent all around medium/heavy North American game getter. It's a nice balance of power and relatively low recoil in a svelte package.

RJM. I have three rifles chambered to the Whelen, two with 1 in 16" twist and one custom with a 1 in 14" twist. The Remington 700 and Ruger 77 are both, so far anyway, 1.25" rifles with 250 gr. bullets The Mauser with the 1 in 14" twist is a little better with one brand (Hornady) shooting in to one inch, and the Speer into 1.10".
My next Whelen will have a 1 in 12" twist. It is my belief that the Whelen was designed for the heavier bullets of 250 to 300 grains, thus the faster twist rate. I would imagine that if one were to stick with bullets no heavier than 250 grains, a 1 in 14" twist would be adequate. However, a 1 in 12" twist should have no problem stabilizing 200 gr. bullets. JMHO.
Paul B.

I love my Rem Classic Whelan. It has done well on Moose and Caribou. Thaat said, my biggest regret was being talked out of using it by my guide on a recent Wyoming Elk hunt. I used a 7mmag and the range was 280yds, well within my Whelan's capability. Would have loved to have seen the Elk drop with the Federal 225gr Bearclaws. Won't make this mistake next time, if given the chance!

Thank you Paul...that is what I am interesed in...people who have been there and done that. I can understand that at very long ranges a faster twist with bullets over 250 grains there could be a marked difference. But under 200 yards where most animals are taken anyway I am not sure that the difference is going to be that noticeable. If shooters were reporting .5 MOA with 250s and 1/12 twist vs. 1.5 MOA for most people using 1/16 twist then I would take great notice..but I keep hearing the words and not seeing any data.

And I am not saying that those who say that a 1/12 is best are wrong...I just have never seen any proof that it is any better. Not over normal hunting ranges anyway.

I shot a M700 Classic .350 RM for almost 13 seasons. It only fired 225 grain bullets...Nosler Petitions and Sierra Boat Tails....it never shot a group OVER an inch as long as I did my part. Never had a need to load heavier bullets as the 225 Petition would go through anything I would ever have shot with it.

Thank you again for your time...Bob

quote:

Thank you Paul...that is what I am interesed in...people who have been there and done that.

Didn't I say that already?!?

Woodsracer...you have "been there and done that"...far more than me...but what I am asking is WHAT EXACTLY IS THE REAL WORLD DIFFERENCE? I see it on every Board..."1/16 won't stabilize 250 grain bullets" yet not ONE person has posted ONE target showing yawing or sideways bullets nor any 3" groups. Yet several people right here say they are getting 1.25 MOA or better with 250s and 1/16" twist. If a 1/16 won't stabilize 250+ grain bullets then at 200 or 300 yards there should be sideways holes in the targets or bullets that don't even connect.... If we are only talking a .25 MOA difference between the 1/16 and a 1/12 then there is no difference...

Bob

The short answer is that the 1:16 WILL stabilize 250 gr spitzers, even at less than 2300 fps, as I posted earlier.

That is all my buddy has used for the past twenty some years in his "little" 358 Win, the Speer 250 gr spitzer.
As well, I have seen him shot groups well under an inch and a half with the rifle, an 18 1/2" Rem 600 that was originally a 35 Rem, that someone rechambered before he bought it.

I know several guys with Rem 700 in 35 Whelen and none of them complain that the 1:16 tubes won't handle heavy bullets.

My wife uses both the Speer and the Hornady 250 spitzers in her 358 Model 7, and shoots groups that make the guys at the range blush.

Ted

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

quote:

Whelen not Whelan.

Build a better cartridge based rifle.. a 338/06.. and then you won't have to worry about someone hassling you about the spelling of your rifle's cartridge... Plus you'll have a better rifle, having better availability of components...

But I am sure you knew that!

cheers
seafire

Perhaps....but who wants to talk about Col 338?

WhyNot...thanks...I have always been under the same belief that the 1/16 will stabilize 250s just fine...afterall wasn't that main bullet weight of the .358 Winchester when it came out? If it didn't work one would have thought Winchester would have upped the twist rate during development. And the .350 RM....also a 1/16 with 250s avalable.

Your friend's M600 sounds great. I have 4 600s and would love to have one in .358 Winchester. A .35 Reminginton in nice shape just sold on GunBroker.com for $850.00...I am hoping to find a little less expensive base rife for the conversion.

Bob

Bob,

His brother has a 600 in 358 as well. It was originally a 308 and has been rebored to 358 Win.

There are lots of cheap 600s around in 243 and 308, so that would be an easy way to a less expensive one for you.

Ted

quote:

Originally posted by gal:
There was an good article in Sports Afield about the 35 Whelan. I am thinking of building one on a model 70 action. I am interested in any opinions on this caliber. It sounds like a nice medium bore that can do many things.Jim

It is. Originally intended for use in lieu of the .375 H&H which at that time was not available in a U.S. made rifle, it did what it was supposed to do. IF Winchester had not started chambering the M70 for the .375 H&H when they did, it is likely that the .35 Whelen would have become a factory offering a lot earlier than it finally appeared.

The only real problem with it, and any other .35 in those days, was a limited selection of bullets.

This is no longer a problem.

Ruger called me today and advised per my letter asking.....that the Stainless 350 R Mag is a 16 twist.

I was surprised at 158 JHP pistol bullets getting under 1.5" groups for 3 shots at 2800 or better mv, loaded up....

I had read where 12 twists were better but it seems the 16 is 'getting R done'

Any possibility the 'heavy' 35's i.e. 250's tumble on impact in a 16 twist?

Why Not...I have a very nice M600 with an original Leupold Scout Mount and scope...I was going to have it done but the smith was not sure if there was enough "meat" on the barrel. The .35 barrels are much thicker as are the ones on the .308 Mohawk. The .222 Mohawk I have has a much thicker barrel than the vent rib .308... Apparently I need to do some more checking.

As to pistol bullets, using 14 grains of 700X and a 160 or 180 grain Hornady silhouette bullet groups were one ragged hole at 50 yards with both the M700 and M600. I have never had the occassion to try them at 100 yards as they are just for small game harvesting or finishing off wounded game up close.

Interesting thought about the 250 tumbling upon impact...somehow I doubt it...I think it would have already come up with the number of .350, .350 and Whelen shooters out there who are using 1/16" twist on LARGE animals.

Bob

RJM saaid, "WhyNot...thanks...I have always been under the same belief that the 1/16 will stabilize 250s just fine...afterall wasn't that main bullet weight of the .358 Winchester when it came out? If it didn't work one would have thought Winchester would have upped the twist rate during development. And the .350 RM....also a 1/16 with 250s avalable."

Actually, Winchester used the 1 in 12" twist for the .358, as did Savage in the Model 99 and Browning in the original BLR. Whether they changed that in later versions of the BLR, I don't know. Ruger uses the 1 in 16" twist in the Model 77 chambered to the .358. Accuracy with 250 gr. bullets in the two that I have has been mediocre at best. For some reason, neither will shoot the 200 gr. Hornady round nose worth a damn, but the 200 gr. Hornady spire point has been accurate in both rifles. My Savage 99 and first model BLR wwith the 1 in 12" twist shoot both the 200 and 250 bullets quite well.
Paul B.

Thank you Paul....I didn't realize that Winchester, Browning and Savage all used the 1/12 in their early guns...I wonder what made Remington and later Ruger use the 1/16.

It is strange that the RN would not shoot well but the Spire point shoot well in the slow twist barrel. It is usually the opposite. Look at the .224 caliber especially the .223. Most bolt guns have a 1/12" twist and the bullets over 55 grains are said to shoot poorly with the exception of the semi-pointed bullets like the 63 grain Sierra and 70 grain Speer... The 63 grain Sierra shoots .25 MOA in several of my .223s but then again the 69 grain Sierra BTHP that isn't supposed to be stabil in a 1/12 twist shoots under .5 MOA in a Remington 700V that I sold to my neighbor last year...

I asked NE450 No2 about using 250s in a .350 Mag. as I knew he had a M7KS for some time and hunted a lot with it. He shot the 250 Speer and said he never had any inaccuracy problems or any indication of bullet yaw at 300 yards...

Bob