If you were considering doing a reasonably trim& moderate weight magnum std.M98, which chambering would you choose?
264win,7mmRem,308norma,338win?
Bear in mind that those are the cal. options so as to keep the rig fairly trim. (24"barrel .560-580"muzzle.)
The idea of the magnum chamber is not to max. it out, but simply get high velocity with light for calibre monometals whilst not stressing the FN action.
eg: 264win 100-130gn,7mmRem 120-140gn,308norma 130-160gn, 338win 160-180gn.
There is no particular task or creature in mind for such a rifle, but simply to have something thats high performing,reasonably light,reasonbly versatile whilst not being overly recoiling, then just hunt the game and conditions thats appropriate to the chosen chamber.
ALSO,do any of the 4 chamberings mentioned actually feed better/easier to get to feed, that the other?
T.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
If you were considering doing a reasonably trim& moderate weight magnum std.M98, which chambering would you choose?
264win,7mmRem,308norma,338win?
Bear in mind that those are the cal. options so as to keep the rig fairly trim. (24"barrel .560-580"muzzle.)
The idea of the magnum chamber is not to max. it out, but simply get high velocity with light for calibre monometals whilst not stressing the FN action.
eg: 264win 100-130gn,7mmRem 120-140gn,308norma 130-160gn, 338win 160-180gn.
There is no particular task or creature in mind for such a rifle, but simply to have something thats high performing,reasonably light,reasonbly versatile whilst not being overly recoiling, then just hunt the game and conditions thats appropriate to the chosen chamber.
ALSO,do any of the 4 chamberings mentioned actually feed better/easier to get to feed, that the other?
T.

300WM/180g, .338WM/250g or .458WM/400g or 376 Steyr/300g
all are about the same for feed rail & mag box work on a origional 8mm Mauser action. If you start with a 7.65x53 or 7x57 there is more material to remove. You will save a TON of time & $$$$$ if you find a MK-X in one of the std mag chamberings

Hello Trax,
Recently finished installing magnum length steel follower in the very action you mentioned. As for mods to the action itself, reshaped just a bit the rails, did not take much, installed the follower, and that was it metal wise. Already drilled and tapped and proper bolt handle installed. Will say I have a selection of Mauser bottom metals, std. military plus Argentines and also have one that came from I believe a Santa Barbra action many years ago and opted to use it instead of the std. one. Upon inspection, found that the interior of the mag/box was some longer by about .025" and not so tight of a fit for the longer seated bullets if desired. Others would have worked, but the one I used needed no work at all other than polishing. Guard was nicely shaped and nice button for the floor plate release. As for caliber, I went with the 300 Win. Mag and holds three down. Will say I had the second round come a bit loose while working the action, did not jump out, and functioned fine, but discovered that if I do not place the rounds squarely on top of each other, this occurs. By inserting rounds belt on belt, not one forward a bit or back a bit, locks them in there just fine and feeds and ejects like it is suppose to do. Prior to the magnum follower, feeding and retaining rounds in mag was iffy at best. Bought a Wisner from Brownells and they do have them in stock as of a week or so ago.
Installed a 4 groove Douglas sourced barrel and have fired the rifle to break in some 17 rounds so far and it groups 3 rounds very near touching from the bench/bag. 300 Win. Mag. selected for all around use and have bigger bores if ever needed. Can't think of any reason why you would have problems with the calibers you mention. Barreled action and metal work was the easy part, taken some three works to get the stock where I want it, but guess that is the price you pay if you are after that close fit and good finish. Good luck.

Of the 4 options you listed, I would have to choose the plain vanilla 7 m/m Rem Mag. Why? Not too recoil-heavy in a light rifle such as you describe, one can buy ammo almost anywhere in North America, and it has enough bullet weight for most jobs. Also has a good variety of bullets commonly available for handloading.

I actually would prefer the .308 Norma if ammo was commonly available, but it simply isn't. Would also prefer a .338 except I would want to make the rifle a bit bulkier/heavier than you appear to want, for more pleasant shooting . In most big-box shops .264 Win Mag ammo is made of unobtanium, and it is not in many rural country stores either compared to the 7 m/m.

But of course any one of them would do fine, so really, pick the one you like the best emotionally. You still won't go far wrong.

I agree the 7MM Remington Magnum is really hard to beat for North American game and would work well in a 98. 160gr Nosler Partitions will just about do the trick on anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I actually would prefer the .308 Norma if ammo was commonly available, but it simply isn't.

If I were building a magnum M98, I'd choose the 308 Norma too. A rifle built to your personal specifications deserves hand crafted ammunition built to the same specifications.

Secondly, I'd choose the 308 Norma because the 264 Win, 270 Wby and 7m/m Rem are basically ballistic twins with the lighter projectiles, and of said group, only Remington's big 7 offers a decent bullet selection. The 7m/m magnum is the clear winner in this group.

Lastly, I'd build one because it's that good. The 308 Norma is what the 300 Winchester should have been...

........ 338 Win mag. . Put a 12 " twist barrel on it and you are set ... That twist will stabilize the 250 gr bullets and it does great with the 200 gr ....

I guess people who don,t use the larger medium size rounds alot think they will be too much on 100-300 lb animals , but a good stout bullet is sometimes perfect for them as it doesn,t blood shock much meat and is easy on capes ..

Plus it is an ideal moose elk , caribou and grizzly round ....
They don,t need to be built over 8 lbs ...

It is not listed as a "Magnum", but the 280 Rem is not far behind the 7mm rem mag, shoots a lot easier and I have found it to be more accurate. You have the same choice of bullets and it works with both heavy and light slugs.
It is not belted and fits a std. action great.
Just my humble opinion for what it is worth.
Judge Sharpe

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
........ 338 Win mag. . Put a 12 " twist barrel on it and you are set ... That twist will stabilize the 250 gr bullets and it does great with the 200 gr ....

a good stout bullet is sometimes perfect for them as it doesn,t blood shock much meat and is easy on capes ..

They don,t need to be built over 8 lbs ...

As John Barsness said so well about 10 years ago, a velocity of 2,500 to 2,800 fps with a fairly heavy (for the bore size) cup'n core bullet pretty much defines the most successful long-term cartridges and bullet weights out there...whether 7x57, .30-06, .375 H&H, or whatever. With the lower velocities the bullets don't blow up on the surface but do expand substantially inside the clock-works where they do the real damage.

He makes some other points which make me respect him as a gun writer, and which I think may apply here somewhat too.

1. The old thing about recoil not being felt when hunting is a bit of being led down a garden path. It doesn't really matter whether you feel recoil when hunting. What matters is "Do you feel it when practicing?" If there is too much recoil to be enjoyable at the range, then one likely won't practice enough to become and remain a truly decent game shot.

2. The flatter trajectory of a magnum is good on paper, but in the game field it is not the big deal some make of it. Most folks aren't experienced enough (or skilled enough) game shots to be worthy of applying that flatter trajectory whanging away at live animals at distances which can make use of the flatter trajectories.

That sorta takes us back to his point #1...if the velocity is at the expense of a lot more powder and recoil, we will practice less, and shouldn't be out there shooting at living creatures at the long ranges which we "think" our magnums make us capable of.

I'm not dis'ing magnums at all, or people who use them. I'm just making an argument that an 8 lb. .338 Winnie is really not a good rifle weight for most shooters when using 250 gr. bullets at the full velocity the round is capable of. Probably 1/2 to a full pound heavier would work better for most. So since the originator of this thread apparently wants a rifle of moderate weight & bulk, I'd have to recommend a smaller bore cartridge than the .338, much as I love that cartridge for really big North Americn game.

Nothing set in stone here, just thinking out loud.....

Given your choice of the lighter non-lead bullets I'd opt for the .308 Norma. Enough case capacity for the velocity and cases are very easily formed out of .338 Win Mag cases. I'd also opt for a 26" barrel with a 14" twist.

Larry Gibson

Of the calibers you named I would opt for the .338, or 308 Norma but 308 Norma brass is expensive so why not the 300 Win Mag..

Keep in mind that its quite easy to build a 300 H&H, 30-338, 300 Win Mag, 375 H&H, 416 Rem and a host of other calibers on a std mauser action. I do it all the time.

quote:

high performing,reasonably light,reasonbly versatile whilst not being overly recoiling,

Sounds like you need a .257 Weatherby

From what you have said the 7MM Mag would be a good choice.

With 140 to 150gr bullets for deer sized game, and 160 to 175gr bullets for elk and other big stuff, you have most bases covered.

And for those hunts that you do not need high velocity/flat trajectory just develop a lighter load in the 7x57, 7mm-08 power range.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
If you were considering doing a reasonably trim& moderate weight magnum std.M98, which chambering would you choose?
264win,7mmRem,308norma,338win?
Bear in mind that those are the cal. options so as to keep the rig fairly trim. (24"barrel .560-580"muzzle.)
The idea of the magnum chamber is not to max. it out, but simply get high velocity with light for calibre monometals whilst not stressing the FN action.
eg: 264win 100-130gn,7mmRem 120-140gn,308norma 130-160gn, 338win 160-180gn.
There is no particular task or creature in mind for such a rifle, but simply to have something thats high performing,reasonably light,reasonbly versatile whilst not being overly recoiling, then just hunt the game and conditions thats appropriate to the chosen chamber.
ALSO,do any of the 4 chamberings mentioned actually feed better/easier to get to feed, that the other?
T.

Why the "Magnum" - a 270 or 30/06 would fit the bolt head better and meet all your other criteria?

First, thanks for the careful and lengthy replies.
Factory ammo option is pretty much out for any chosen chambering, I would not subject an older mauser to such pressures, If that was not an issue,the high availablity &variety of 7mmmag would make it the pick.
Interestingly, .270 Weatherby is not uncommon in quality customs, more than I see 264win,7mmweath,7mmrem,
I figure it has a little cult following...(I still miss the one i once had).
.308NrmaMag. well that never really got the career it deserved, the price of 60-100 brass ($30/20pc,$130/100pc) is a small issue in the world of walnut mausers!
Ive heard .264win with fast 100gn monometals kills 600lb beasts with impressive gusto!
7mmRem120gn,308Norma130gn, ups things some.

Judge & Ray Sondero,
Im not against the std case chambers particularly 280rem and its a crying shame no one makes a factory 6.5mm/06,.they all work like little mangums in themselves with light monometals,(240wm is no slouch either) but am investigating the lighter magnum case options,to see if they give sufficiently more without too much more self punishment.
Modern powders & modern bullets no doubt benefit&improve all rounds, as well as the performance one can get from rifles built on old mauser actions without freaking it ouT!
Ive learnt not to take things too seriously and endevor to keep such things an exercise in Fun, but I do humanly declare that, custom mausers can & do paint one into a lovely corner.
Theirs a fine line between pleasure and pain,& some poisons are better for you than others, luckily we have a choice.
In any case its not a super important post, but there are always folk that enjoy such bordem breaking civil discussion(me included),with the chance of learning something new along the way.
Nuf' said by me I guess.
Trax out.

30cal. 130gn GScustom.

I really like the 338 WM, but I dont have one yet. The long 250 grainers at 2700 fps is unbeatable moosemedicine.

The ones I have tried were not more pleasant to shoot than my 375 H&H, but still very shootable. I think the most important thing about recoil management is not getting the scope in your forehead. Training with heavy recoil improve your shooting but a couple of hits from the scope then at least I'm back at square one. Thats why my 375 is scopeless this season.

.358 Norma Mag.

From your choices, I would have to pick the 264.

If it was my choice, I would lean very seriously toward a 300 H&H.

But I am not a belted magnum fan, so this just a mental excercise for me.

Of the cartridges you list, I would go with the .264, only because I love the 6.5 and not everybody has one. Practically speaking, the 7mm Rem is probably a little better choice, but it doesn't have the character of the .264.

Nonetheless, the 6.5 has a great range of bullet weights that will work for varmints to antelope to elk. I would definitely go with at least a 26" bbl. Lou

I built a 270 Weatherby on a VZ-24 action. It worked out great, so that's my vote.

The most classical choice would be the 8x68 mm "S". A modern, beltless Magnum nearly a 100 years old...

quote:

Keep in mind that its quite easy to build a 300 H&H, 30-338, 300 Win Mag, 375 H&H, 416 Rem and a host of other calibers on a std mauser action. I do it all the time.

What modifications would be needed? Can the existing magazine boxed be opened up & reused or would you need bottom metal & follower?

I hate to be the odd man out, but I generally stay away from magnums in M98's. I know they can be made to work but I alway's thought that's What a M70 was made for.

I only own one magnum at the moment, it's .300H&H built on a M70 Classic. I am having another one built for next year though. It's going to be a .264Win Mag on a Ruger M77 MKII action. It's going to be 100% utility. Plastic stock, stainless action and barrel, etc. Pretty boring but I bet it'll be accurate.

Terry

You say you'll be loading it yourself, for lower pressures, so sounds like you actually could use a magnum case. The 7mm is spec'ed at 61k psi, and the 280 at 60k. All of the "hot" ones are 64k, so even if I agreed with your concerns, factory 7mm should be well within range of what you'd be loading. And if you like the 280 speeds, you can do that with slower powders in the 7mm.
I've always wanted a 264, but unless you're never going after elk, the 7mm makes more sense.

Never warmed up to the 7 Rem Mag for some reason. Of the choices you mentioned I have a .264 Win Mag, .308 Norma Mag, and the .338 Win Mag. Either of the latter two would be my choice with the .338 Win Mag being the best choice if you're going after larger animals. It really has some authority on impact.

A buddy that hunts from the same cabin as us, but in a different season, has used his original pre-64 westerner 264WM many times on elk. The 140 and up bullets have GREAT sectional density.

There is a couple that suits the old German action very well.

1. 9,3x64 Brenneke
2. 8x68 S

Both are made to work perfectly in a Mauser and they are German without that darn belt.

If you want a American caliber the .375 Dakota is also a good choice.

Remember that feeding issues should newer be an issue when a Mauser project is finished.

There are mauser actions and there are mauser actions. I am a little suprised to hear people who have so much concern over these rounds in a mauser.
Been done so many thousand times it can't be counted.
I am also a little curious as to why the .308 Norma and not the .300 winchester ?
That said , I like the 7 mag just fine too.
But a 300 win with its forward shoulder has room for ltos of powder with lighter bullets.
Some say the short neck means long bullets take up powder space, and they do of corse.
But if you think of it as a forward shoulder instead of a short neck you will see that it still has more powder space than the .308 norma.
But if you have pesonal reasons like mabye grandpa had one , than by all means use the norma.
But I see no practicle advantage at all.
By the way. Read an article about a plains game hunt with a 300 win and a 130 grain barnes tiped X bullet.
very impressive...tj3006

I am very near completion of a VZ24 in 300 Win. Mag and did have discussions with responsible fellow who advised me that the 308 Norma was better suited for the rifle. Reason, no belt and feeding would not be an issue. I did have some minor problems with the second round tending to raise up out of the mag, but was advised to purchase and install the magnum follower and should help. Well, it did and and runs fine now whether slow or fast working of the bolt. One negative to me anyway of the Norma is the expense, availablity of brass or at least that is what I have been told. Too late now to change, but figure the Win Mag will do anything I want to do. I should mention that the original box/bottom metal was very tight both in length and width and have a supply of these items and the one that worked best was from a Parker Hale for it was longer and wider and metal wise mated up with the receiver and a little opening of the wood area worked out fine.

I always thought that the 7 X 61 S&H was the best designed,optimum belted cartridge for a mod,98 to be used in the lower 48 plus. Good magazine length with heavier bullets, plenty of energy, reasonable recoil, great bullet selection and trajectry that would allow long distance shooting. Just one of my druthers. roger

If I were building such a gun, then it would be for the old 300 H&H, it really suits the std. M-98 and it doesn't churn up pressures but still gets it all done..

My second choice would be the 300 Winchester magnum.

Of the ones you named the 7 mag or 308 Norma would be my choice for a light rifle. The 308 Norma ammo and brass is much more expensive than the 300 Win. Mag however..Another option is the new 300 Ruger, it is made for the M-98.

Ray,
as much as I like 300H&H, 308Norma is an easier fit in M98, and when we could not find 300H&H brass for hell nor high water some time ago, I could still find 308Nm.
$130/100pc 308nm is cheap compared to .300H&H unobtanium. When one considers what one pays for super premium bullets,quality rifles/scopes/binoculars,guided hunts and everything else folk spend on hunting, I dont see the price,or difference in price, of brass as a big issue.
Any smart fellow would buy a few hundred brass of what ever chamber he chooses,and never really have to worry much about short notice availability.
Now, you mention 300ruger, are you talking about the compact or has ruger also anounced a std.length 300ruger? - that would be apprecaited and what they should have done in the first place!

In regards to strength of mausers, If I found upon arrival that Id lost my handloaded 300win ammunition, and the local happen to have a few dust covered boxes of .300win180NP-gold at 3070mv, it would not really help me, cause id not be game to fire it in the mauser.


H&H fans here might enjoy seeing a .3ooH&H on a recent assignment:
That std length receiver 3ooH&H still leaves a bit to be desired in regards to ideal load length, even after major metal removal.

.308 Norma Mag is belted and can be easily made from .338 Win Mag brass. You only need properly headstamped brass under conditions of international travel.

I have a 1909 argentine mauser converted to 375-338. It is real easy to load for and it isn't necessary to make the loads too hot. Gives good velocity with the 235 to 250 grainers. Otherwise gives standard 375 H&H velocities with less powder.

Otherwise I would go for the 300-338, essentially the same as the 308 norma, and easy to find brass.

I really like my M98 in 338 Win. I shoot a modest load of H4350 with Barnes 210 grain TSX at 2900. It kills like a lightening bolt. It has outstanding accuracy and is easy on the shoulder. DW

.358 Norma