quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
I am considering going all in with a 338-06 ground up build ...

If you scan through a few Manuals, you will find the SAFE MAX 338-06 loads are the same Velocity as the Starting Loads in the 338WinMag. Sure speaks well for the 338-06.

And to give it even higher praise, the 338-06 is ALMOST as good as a 35Whe.

How much would it cost to just re-chamber a rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
How much would it cost to just re-chamber a rifle?

From what to what?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
How much would it cost to just re-chamber a rifle?

From what to what?

06 to 06 improved. The subject of this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
How much would it cost to just re-chamber a rifle?

From what to what?

06 to 06 improved. The subject of this thread.

I'd wager this can be done for $250 or less as prices vary dramatically.

Remember....if you then later want to rechamber back to the standard .30-06 it's about $400 because it requires a new barrel.

I have a 280AI and it is shooting about 100 to 150fps faster than my friends standard .280. Now there are many factors that can contribute to this so I am not saying the AI is the reason it's shooting faster.
I am getting ready to do another AI chambering on a 30-30. I have read that it will improve the velocity on it to approach .300 savage. Not duplicate but come closer.
I have also read that with the AI chamberings they will reduce pressure and it also allows you to use a slower burning powder with the increased capacity of the case. I don't know how true this is as I heard it from a gunsmith that was talking about the subject.

You also have the cost of the new Dies. You still have that if you change to a different Caliber, but some Die sets are less expensive than others. I just looked at the current cost of some Standard Die Sets yesterday and was pleasently surprised that they have not gone out of sight.

You "might" be able to do a total rebarrel with a couple of places that are not overly expensive. Pac-Nor, McGowin, Shillen, etc, are quite reasonable and provide very adequate "Hunting Level" accuracy. And if you go with them you do not have to deal with the occasional, "Did the GunSmith hose it up or the barrel maker?" fiasco. Lots of threads on here about rebarrelling, just do the "Find" search at the top of the page here and on the GunSmith Board.

Best of luck to you.

Dear Captain Finlander:

If you are having difficulty with your 30-06 AI decision, then why don't you go to the source, and make up your own mind:

"Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders" (two volume set) by P. O. Ackley.

Incredibly useful material, and also written by the guy, who actually did it.

Primary sources are still your best bet.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

NO.

Nice reads!

As for my thoughts, all my future rifles that I will buy, WILL be AI'ed or I won't purchase them.

Have a 338/06 AI and 225 Win AI no problems with them, dies were easy to find. Looking at 280 AI and maybe a 6.5 JDJ AI.

Having a "good" gunsmith" helps!

Life is to short to be just ordinary.

I have a number of the AI versions - .257 AI, .25-06 AI, .280 AI, 30-06 AI, 338-06 AI, and 375 H&H AI. I've reloaded them all extensively for years and have tons of chronograph data, and also, I have comparative data with their standard precursors. On all, I’ve experimented with different bullet weights and most popular powders, from fast to slow-burning and all those in between.

I'm the guy GSSP referred to above. I'd read with seriousness his post, GSSP has got it right. It's true that the gain in case capacity is not always that great with some exceptions - that is, except the .257, .280, 25-06, and 375 where IMO there are significant increases in case capacity with the AI versions. But, IMO there may be other significant benefits from only mildly increased case capacity.

The secret to GSSP's success is not just the increase in case capacity, but also using compressed slow-burning powder, such as Re25. The problem with using slow burning powder in limited case capacity cartridges, such as the '06, is that you can't get enough powder into the case, to bring up PSI to ~65,000, even with compression. In this situation, sometimes adding just a bit more case capacity (even as little as ~5%) will allow one to put enough slow burning powder into a case behind the right weight bullet to reach that 65,000 PSI, and this may take only a few additional grains.

This is the situation with the 30-06 AI. Using 180 bullets and the standard 30-06 with Re25 the maximum velocity with powder compression, which I was able achieve, was ~2825 fps, but using the AI version one can get ~71 grs into the case and achieve over 3000 fps – obviously those few extra grains optimized Re25 for the 30-06 AI. Using slower burning powders is a big part of the increased performance in magnum capacity cartridges.

Why only a few grains? IMO as PSI increases, powder tends to burn faster. Thus, there is a “sweet spot” for Re25 and 180 gr. bullets for the 30-06 AI that one can reach with only a 5% increase in case capacity.

If one wants more velocity, one needs to put more powder (energy) behind the bullet and bring the PSI up to maximum – stated differently maximum performance is achieved with the maximum amount of the slowest (high-energy) burning powder you can get into the case and achieve maximum PSI (65,000). You want to maximize the area under the pressure curve without exceeding maximum PSI.

The down side to maximum performance reloading is DON’T screw-up. Keep everything the same each time. Measure each powder change, shoot at the same ambient temperature, use a modern well-made and proven bolt-action rifle, use the same bullets, powder lot, case type, OAL, primer, etc. – clone your loads.

But, that said, slow-burning powders tend to be more forgiving than fast-burning powders and “soft” lead-based bullets are more forgiving that “hard” solid bullets or partition bullets. Exceed one of these variables and you might pop a primer – but don’t freak out, primer pockets may give way anytime you go over 65,000 PSI and first-rate modern bolt-action will not explode until you exceed 150,000 PSI. Always wear eye protection, the escaping gases from a popped primer could hurt your eyes.

Which AI modifications are the best? – answer, it depends. I like all of them except the 25-06 AI, which is way overbore. The standard 25-06 is overbore.

If you want to maximize your 30-06 action, I’d suggest going to the 338-06 AI. If you want more energy transferred to the bullet, use that largest available diameter caliber – remember, force = pressure x area.

But, larger diameter means lower ballistic coefficient and reduced down-range performance. But, Nosler now makes a FABULOUS bullet for the 338, the 225 gr. Accubond! It’s bonded, accurate, forgiving, and has a BC=0.55. If you can get this bullet moving, it’ll give accurate, long-range (400 yd plus), premium bullet performance. With the .338-06 AI and with a 26” barrel I’m getting 2875 fps with 63 grs of N204 (slightly faster burning that MRP). But, this is MAXIMUM – only work up to this load from below with a first-rate, modern (premium) bolt-action rifle. MRP was just too slow for the .338-06 AI with 225 ABs, so I went to the Norma powder slightly faster than MRP and was able achieve 65,000 PSI.

Regards, AIU