No gunsmith needed for bedding a rifle so I posted this here.

Finally got tired of looking at the warper stock on my A-bolt. The barrel is free floated but it was nearly touching the one side.

After Dremelling out the old bedding, I took the Dremel to the stock with a nice drum sander bit and carefully removed the wood on the side nearly touching the barrel. I also took a nice portion out of the bottom so the barrel has lots of space all around, free of wood.

Then I dug into the wood and hallowed out the wood, really deep from the area of the recoil lug to the front swivel pin. I made it nice and deep and took out lots of wood.

I mixed up the Acraglas Gel, added the brown dye, and went to town filling that huge hallow and recoil lug.

Placed masking tape on the front, bottom and sides of the recoil lug. I only put the release agent on the barrel. I decided to try a complete full bedding job of the recoil lug, chamber and barrel.

20 hours later, its always a surprise knocking it out, plop? Thank you Jesus! I never glued my gun permanently together.

I never put any bedding compound in the tang area or back behind on the action rails or the rear part of the action. I figure with a full length bedding job, any heat may cause the rails to flex which is probably best. I also never added any tension on the front action bolt, I never even installed it. I tightened the rear tang screw real tight and whatever pressure that put on the front, sucked the action down nicely to push out the gel compound. I figure what is the point of bedding something if I tighten the front screw down. I would rather just have the entire action and stock rest perfectly relaxed and in their most natural state while the glass cures. That way everything is perfectly straight and then when I install the front action bolt, it will evenly tighten everything together.

The rifle has been sitting for 3 days now curing and I am ready to sand the edges and oil the gun stock. I like to also apply a very light coat to the inside all around to seal off all moisture. I use JB WELD for this with black dye added. The gun will have a nice brown full length bedding job from the recoil lug forward and from the recoil lug back ward will be a thin black coat. It makes for a nice inside presentation of the stock. It looks expensive!

I like to let the epoxy cure for 10 days before firing the rifle. First time using Acraglas Gel and they say you can shoot the gun in 3 days but say it is much, much, better after a week.

I was holding the gun last night and the full length bedding job along with adding a very large amount to the deep hallow of forend added some very significant, solid mass to the gun. I had also filled the stock near the recoil pad with sand and the Glass really balanced it out.
Tapping the gun with my hand results in a nice solid thump. The sand and epoxy really makes the rifle feel solid and accurate.

I am hoping it will shoot much better now.

Corey

Thanks for the good description. I have not done a full length bedding, yet. I might steal an idea from you on my next one, the part about not using the front screw during the bedding process. I'm about to bed a 35 Whelen VZ-24 into a Boyds JRS stock, I bought unfinished.

What caliber is the rifle you describe? Lets see some pictures.

I won't question your bedding but do wonder WHY not the entire action,rails and tang. When I bed a rifle it is the ENTIRE rifle from rear of rear tang to forearm tip. My logic is to leave no area unsupported by bedding,period. I have been doing this with success since the advent of bedding initially using Devcon 'plastic steel' and later AcraGlas. I have never and I repeat never had a gun fail to shoot using this method. Incidentally I was introduced to 'glass' bedding by one of my instructors at TSJC who was using it to bed target rifles. His name was Louis M'Race and he built beautiful stocks.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
Thanks for the good description. I have not done a full length bedding, yet. I might steal an idea from you on my next one, the part about not using the front screw during the bedding process. I'm about to bed a 35 Whelen VZ-24 into a Boyds JRS stock, I bought unfinished.

What caliber is the rifle you describe? Lets see some pictures.

.270 Winchester.


The gun is an A-bolt Medallion and weighs 6 pounds 11 oz stock. With a 22" barrel the gun had some significant muzzle blast and recoil, especially with the factory recoil pad which is basically a glorified piece of steel.

The gun also felt very fragile when tapped. It felt light and hallow. The buttstock had a hallow in it so I filled that with strained fine sand and sealed it with Weldbond glue.

IMO, taking a fairly significant amount of wood out from all around the entire barrel using a Dremel sanding drum is a good idea. Using a socket and sand paper would take a week to get the same results in a few minutes with the Dremel. I also bought a cheap wood carving kit at the Dollar Store for a buck and used the v-notch carving tool to creat lines and rough things up. The Glass is going to be dyed and nobody is going to see this. This puts lots of glass all around the barrel channel and not just a tiny film which is basically useless IMO.

I got tired of having a warped stock so I fixed that permanently as described above. There really is no limit to how much wood you want to take out of the stock below the barrel, as long as you don't go too far and go right through your bottom! I went really deep and wide all the way from the front swivel pin dowel back close to the recoil lug recess. You can cut arrows upand fill them with bedding and place them inside here or you can just fill the huge void with bedding which is what I did. It adds wonderful strength and mass to the gun. Tapping and bumping the forearm stock now feels like a solid piece of toilet bowl with a "thud" instead of a hallow rap.

Thanks ror the good description of your full-length beding experiment.I think it will probably work fine for you. Back in the late 1950's when I was making stocks for a living and "glass" bedding was a relatively new thing, that was considered the "right"way to do it.

Then along came the free-floating barrel theory and of course everyone switched to the even-newer thing.

I always bedded my rifle stocks everywhere there was action or barrel metal immediately adjacent to wood...both receiver rings, rear tang, full barrel, even the magazine boxes and trigger guards. Held together with moderate pressure (and guide screws) while setting, they made nice, level, bedding jobs and shot very well. But, it was a bit of a PITA learning to do it without getting any air bubbles, gaps, etc., and still not gluing everything permanently together.

BUT, I think your NOT bedding of the tang and the action may be an even better idea....sort of the "free-floating action" theory used on so many of the BR "glue-ins", but without gluing it in.

I know that glue-in barrel-bedding approach produces some very finely accurate, competitive, benchrest rifles, so there's no real reason it shouldn't work on your gun... and you still have the convenience of being able to remove the barreled action when necessary without having to destroy the bedding in the process. One other nice thing about it (theoretically) is that it may concentrate the vibrational whip on firing to the breech end of the assembly, rather than the muzzle, as the breech is free to move about, while the muzzle end really isn't as free. Since the breech already has the multi-directional vibrations of the falling striker, the propellant explosion, etc., making it move anyway, might as well let the long longitudinal vibes play out at that end too, if possible.

In addition to the accuracy issues, it is also likely eaiser to get a really good, smooth bedding job when one just has to bed the cylindrical barrel rather than the multi-angled action.

All of the above presumes good recoil lug contact, of course.

Anyway, good luck, and let us know how it worked out in respect of bullet holes on paper.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Then along came the free-floating barrel theory and of course everyone switched to the even-newer thing.

IMO, free floating a barrel is the thing mass produced gun makers do to turn out guns fast while having a relatively accurate gun. My experience is it has not been an optimal procedure.

quote:

I always bedded my rifle stocks everywhere there was action metal...both receiver rings, rear tang, full barrel, even the magazine boxes and trigger guards. Held together with moderate pressure (and guide screws) while setting, they made nice, level, bedding jobs and shot very well.

I decided to leave off all pressure in the middle of the action this time, only securing the rear tang bolt. This snugged the action down into the wood perfectly level by viewing the stock in relation to the action rails. I figured why not let the entire action and stock rest naturally without a hair of any extra pressure. If the action is levelled and flush with the stock, why do I need to add pressure and stress in the middle of the action? I figure have only 1 pivot point at the very rear tang bolt and let everything cure from there naturally, skin tight. Using a torque screw driver will ensure the exact amount of tension is applied each time to the middle recoil bolt each time the gun is taken apart.

quote:

BUT, I think your NOT bedding of the tang and the action may be an even better idea....sort of the "free-floating action" theory used on so many of the "glue-ins", but without gluing it in.

That was my thinking. I have no engineering training and am very poor at math but sat and thought about the flexing of the chamber/barrel relative to the rear part of the action rails/tang. I figure there must be some flex and some type of stress relief needed because pillar bedding seems popular on bench type rifles.

I picture having the chamber and barrel as being the key ingredient in accuracy because those are what hold the bullet, guide the bullet, and shoot the bullet. Having the chamber and barrel as one unified, solid mass that consistently remained synchronized in any minor expansion or contraction should yield the best results. This is why I focused on removing a very large amount of wood in these areas and added a large amount of glass to build of maximum strength and mass thereby hoping things become relatively inert in that area.

This left the tiny, skinny action rails to absorb any flex and the tang along with them. In tightening the tang bolt securely while curing, I won't later add any pull on the barrel and chamber from the tang.

quote:

I know that approach produces some very finely accurate, competitive, benchrest rifles, so there's no real reason it shouldn't work on your gun...

Being a strictly "meat" gun used as a tool to harvest animals, I am hoping to get very tight groups with TSX hunting bullets. Being such a low recoiling gun, especially with the added mass and Limbsaver recoil pad, I able able to shoot this rifle with the relaxation of a .22. In essence, there is no adrenaline produced while squeezing the trigger at all. I have found this to be the the best for shooting up to 400 yards which is about my max. If I could shoot a 300 mag. like I can shoot this caliber at 400 yards, I would be using a 300 mag. I am no good past 150 yards with a 300 mag. so the .270 is actually a more effective long range caliber for me, albeit not as powerful. Everybody called Jack O'Connor a great shot but he also shot light recoiling calibers.

quote:

and you still have the convenience of being able to remove the barreled action when necessary without having to destroy the bedding in the process.

Yes.

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One other nice thing (theoretically) about it is that it may concentrate the vibrational whip on firing to the breech end of the assembly, rather than the muzzle, as the breech is free to move about, while the muzzle end really isn't as free.

Yes, that is another reason for taking out so much of the stock material and filling it with the glass. I wanted the chamber/barrel and the forward part of the stock around these areas to be extra heavy and solid. When I rap on it it is one solid thud like hitting a ceramic toilet bowl. I am hoping any harmonics or whip will be forced to resonate towards the skinny action rails and the tang like you said.

quote:

Since the breech already has the multi-directional vibrations of the falling striker, the propellant explosion, etc., making it move anyway, might as well let the long longitudinal vibes play out at that end too, if possible.

I am hoping also the fine sand I placed in the butt stock will also help damp these as well. The forward part of the stock near the barrel and chamber is one solid heavy mass like a rock and the rear part of the action is soft wood ending in fine sand in the buttstock and a soft recoil pad. Hopefully these 2 opposing properties will invite any flex and harmonics away from the barrel and chamber.

quote:

In addition to the accuracy issues, it is also likely eaiser to get a really good, smooth bedding job when one just has to bed the cylindrical barrel rather than the multi-angled action.

Yes, and much easier to keep things clean. Snug down the rear tang bolt a tad untill you get squeeze out. I then took some cleaning patches, fold them and wipe up the squeeze out. Then tighten the tang bolt somemore untill more squeeze out appears, then clean that up. You only have to focus on the front part of the action and stock for wiping squeeze out away. This makes things very simple and precise.

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All of the above presumes good recoil lug contact, of course.

Another reason I didn't install and apply any pressure on the recoil action bolt. I didn't want any excess pressure and squeeze out to happen in this area. The chamber and barrel rested naturally in the gel and made for perfect contact. The thin layer of masking tape on the bottom, sides and front gave just a hair amount of clearance to remove the action. The rear contact area was skin tight using just the release agent. I used a fine artist brush for this and applied 2 fine coats.

quote:

Anyway, good luck, and let us know how it worked out in respect of bullet holes on paper.

Yes, how does it shoot?! In the end that is all that matters!

I was fairly involved in hi-fi stereo a while back. We used 2 watt tube amplifiers on single driver speakers. The hobby involved very intricate tweaking of capacitors and resistors etc. in the amp circuits and there was 2 schools of thought. How your system measured on an oscilloscope or how it sounded. You would get these guys and all their theories about this and that, measuring their gear etc. and in the end it sounded like one sterile piece of steel. Then along comes the other guy who doesn't care about measurments but just focuses on the sound. These guys would usually build there amps and speakers and after months of listening to them and tweaking them to near perfection, only then would they take the electrical measurments of the gear. These measurments usually looked bad on paper yet the music sounded so real and alive.

I am hoping my daydreaming will turn into a precise and consistent shooting gun. In the end, that's all that matters. This will allow me to cook up a good elk steak, then go listen to some music!

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:

Lets see some pictures.

I don't have a camera.

there are more than a few ways to bed a rifle and make it shoot..The rifle will usually determine that, but usually if a rifle will shoot, then it will shoot well with any of the bedding processes, full length, 3 point or floated barrel...

On big bores I have found they are probably best bedded from one end to the other, but again I let the rifle decide that. I will sacrifice a little accuracy but not much, for full length bedding in the big bores as they take a beating, and are exposed to harsh conditions.

How is a 550 CZ 458 LOtt best bedded. How do you bed the barrel recoil lug that located at about mid barrel? There is a metal block in the stock at that point. I would appreciate advise on this.

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
there are more than a few ways to bed a rifle and make it shoot..The rifle will usually determine that, but usually if a rifle will shoot, then it will shoot well with any of the bedding processes, full length, 3 point or floated barrel...

On big bores I have found they are probably best bedded from one end to the other, but again I let the rifle decide that. I will sacrifice a little accuracy but not much, for full length bedding in the big bores as they take a beating, and are exposed to harsh conditions.

+1

PRW,
I would fully bed that Lott form stem to stern..The recoil lug is easy...open the wood around the metal block a little and about an inch in front of it....fill the front part with clay and glass it....take the clay out and you have an inch of relief in front of the barrel lug..you need this to get the gun in and out of the stock...

Ray,

Thanks for your response. For other rifles I've glassed the whole rifle, however floated the barrel. Should the barrel (for the Lott) be in contact with the bedding for the full length of the barrel? Or, just contact at the barrel lug and chamber area?

Phil