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I have two commercial FN 1898. usually referred to as Mausers. One is a 52 the other is a 51. I thought that referred to year 0f manufacture. I'm now to believe its a model number. Can someone help me out? Thanks capt david "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | ||
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I've had two military FN Mauser .30-06 rifles that either had 51 stamped on them or was designated in their advertising. I assumed that was a year of manufacture. One of mine had a Colombian crest on the front receiver ring. They seem to be identified with someone/thing called Famage, too, which made me think this referred to them having been rebarrelled, maybe from 7x57. The .30 near the Nock's form is, of course, the calibre. They also had a groove down the rear upper edge of the receiver ring, presumably to assist clip feeding of the longer .30-06 military ammo. The stocks are walnut, rather than the beech found on a lot of German Mausers, and are thankfully free of flutes, cutouts and bolt-disassembly discs. | |||
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sorry, these are FN commercial rifles marked Model 1898. capt david "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | |||
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I have never seen a FN Mauser, either commercial or military that was actually marked "Model 1898". Commercial FN actions will often be marked with year of mfg (1951 or 1952 etc). Commercial FNs are easily identified by the Liege proof mark on top of bolt handle. | |||
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I believe Sears marketed FN Mausers as models 51 and 52. Shoot Safe, Mike NRA Endowment Member | |||
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According to Ray Atkinson, these are not 'Mausers' because they are not built by Mauser, nor do they say Mauser anywhere on them.They also don't say Sears. Herters, Western Auto or Montgomery Wards, All of which imported them. capt david "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | |||
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Where is the 51 or 52 stamped ? On the Commerical FN actions after 1948, ( no thumb slot in LH side ), most but not all were stamped with the year, example 1952 on the right hand lower side of the front receiver ring under the stock line. Some BUT not all it depends on where the action was headed to it appears. I have three on my desk now, 1 HVA, and 2 JC HIggins that have no year stamped on them. BUT I have handled a LOT of these actions over the years that have been stamped, since they were action only by the time I say them it is hard to say what rifle maker put them together. There are the JC Higgins model 50 and 51 rifles that used the FN actions. BUT those were only marked as such model up on the barrel with the JC Higgins name. Now these FN/JC Higgins you will find one main way to identify, All I have seen inculding the two on my desk right now, has the words, FN action - made in Belgium, on the LH outside wall with the Belgium proof marks on the front ring, PLUS the rear scope mount spacing is .875". I have owned two of them that had 5 diget serial numbers stamped on the front RH ring right at stock line, BUT have seen a lot of them with no serial numbers other than what appear to be them stamped on the bottom flat of the receiver. The Husqvarna Hi Power rifles, ( 1949 - 1954 ) were a FN action BUT only had the HVA crest on the front ring and were not drilled and tapped for scope mounts, just for a peep sight. The one in my hands now has NO proof marks, just the HVA crest on it. Now that I have muddied up the waters more lets hear from others. James Wisner ACCG Member | |||
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OF COURSE they are Mausers!!! Anything that uses the original Mauser design is a Mauser. The term means the design/patent, not the maker. For a Mauser factory rifle, call it a Mauser Oberndorf. What do you call them? Mauser copy? We call them FN Mausers; can't call them FNs because they made other stuff. Military ones are the country's name, and Mauser. Like, Argentine 1909 Mauser. Yes, Jim is right about commercial FN Mausers. FN seemed to use lots of different ways to mark their Mauser receivers. Husqvarna used FN Mauser actions because Sweden never made a 98 Mauser; they built and used the 96 for most everything. Successfully. I have them with no serial at all on the receiver; only on the barrel. No year though. | |||
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Go to 'another Mauser question' post on main medium page see what he says "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | |||
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I don't care what he says. He is misguided. If I license my patent for a Model 98 Widget to ten different manufacturers, it is still a Model 98 Widget. You can't change that no matter how much you want to. | |||
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I'm a little afraid to get into this whole Mauser thing, many of you have far more experience. But at least in the case of military Mausers didn't they license the manufacture of Mauser's all over the world? Therefore they all are still true Mauser's regardless of where they came from. Now post war commercials Mauser's I can see some disagreement on what to call them since the original company ceased to exist for a time. But really how important is that to most people? Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Not withstanding Ray's thoughts on the metalurgy of FN's Mauser-type rifles, I'd say that close copying of the Mauser design and dimensions does make them generic Mausers. Also, I seem to recall that the Germans actually consigned production to Belgium, whereby it would gain extra claim to that moniker. On another tack, perhaps the Germans would say, no, the Mauser is a pistol that the English and Americans generally term a Luger. Dpcd, were not the 1960s commercial Husqvarnas based on the M98? I'm thinking of the 1640 series and a model 4000 I ordered in 1969 but never received. | |||
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I have a "mauser" with an Imperial crown crest over a fancy L. Then ABL under that, and 1951 under that. I assume an FN, it has a little notch in the top of the front receiver ring, and an 06 length mag box, so I also assume it was chambered originally for 30-06? | |||
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 Close enough for me. I'm crazy about these FNs. I call them Mausers. I think they are a beautiful, well made firearm and make a damned fine custom rifle. They were made by a company that license built Mausers. They are Mausers. | |||
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When people talk about Mauser's. They often refer to the notch on the left side by the bolt release as a thumb notch. So called to assist in loading with stripper clips. This is not what it was designed to be. It was put there to redirect escaping gas from a case rupture. Leo The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it. | |||
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There is a big difference between the business strategy of Mauser, Remington, & Winchester that has lead to all this mental masturbation. Mauser as a business practice licensed others to mfg there rifles so did SU/Russia with the AK. So all this  about is this a mauser or not is just that If you license a 1/2 dozen or more entities to mfg your design, you create endless stupid arguments about what is a true "XYZ". Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Yes and to further elucidate; just using one or some of the Mauser "98 system" patents or design concepts is not enough to make a "Mauser". You have to follow the Mauser Technical Data Package which provides the actual configuration; some factories were provided it through commercial and military contracts, and some (after WW1) were given to them as war reparations. Machine tools as well. Which is why a Model 70 or a Springfield 03 is not a Mauser. And which is why an FN, IS, clearly, one. | |||
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Those were FN built Mauser 98's made for Belgium in cal 30-06. The Crown/L is for Belgian King Leopold ABL is for 'Armee Belge/Belgisch Leger' 1951 year of mfg. They made a second contract in 1952. Same rifle but by then King Leo' was gone from the Throne and his son, Baudoin, had taken his place. So the Crown/B takes the place of the Crown/L and the rifles are dated 1952 Black enamal paint like finish for the Army issue rifles. A gray phosphate type finish for the Navy issue. The front rcv;r ring is factory notched for loading the slightly longer 30-06 round. | |||
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And that pretty much is the point I was trying to make. A true 98 Mauser must contain all the design elements to be called one. Unfortunately some of these elements are the first thing to go or be modified by follow on companies. The C ring comes to mind.  I would love to have one of those!  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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2152hq, thank you very much for the info! | |||
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Nope, one minor alteration, such as the C inner ring, a feature that is not germane to the form, fit, or function, or appearance of the end item, is not enough of a change to make it anything other than a MAUSER. A 98 one, clearly. | |||
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If someone wants a 71/84 like that, PM me. I got them. | |||
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Can't be sure if that was the main purpose, but it would certainly achieve that end. However, the M98 bolt shroud does cover and even seal that left-lug runway, unlike Sakos, where the makers appear not to give a damn. | |||
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I bet dpcd can really cause some chaos in a gun show when he sez lemme see that Mauser, and its a mod 70!!  A Mauser is a Mauser and an FN is an FN, a Fabrique Nationale has no markings to say its a Mauser.. I do however agree with Mike, it is mental masturbation and damn mess... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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A 1903, is a Springfield, an a P17 is an Enfield, No matter where they were built. Funny though a 1911 is not a Colt unless it is a Colt. Its just how it is !...tj3006 | |||
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Listen...don't get your panties in a wad over the names of things... Where I'm from if you walk into a fellow's house and he offers you a Coke he could hand you a Pepsi, an RC Cola, or some nameless generic soda pop from Walmart. | |||
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Alf, Yep, seriously it's mental masturbation and the attributes of masturbation is it feels good to people so they do it over and over but it produces no lasting effect and nobody else cares. Additionally, it is a completely self absorbed activity much like many pedantic diatribes. So go ahead and enjoy the silly arguments about real Mausers or not real Mausers.  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I think maybe this discussion has bifurcated a bit. Personally, I don't deny that an FN can be a Mauser but I am interested in matters such as which ones are strongest and less likely to hurt you if they blow up. Similarly, I understand there is some difference in quality between Remington and Eddystone M17s and some Springfields. | |||
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Speaking of Coke - IIRC The Coca Cola Company doesn't produce a drop it is all produced under license by companies with a name of The Coca Cola Bottling Company of [Insert Locale Name] all of which are independently owned and operated using the Coke formula. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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And an AK47 does it matter where or who made them? Or can only Rifles built by Colt be called AR-15, Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Better not buy any Maytag appliances. Whirlpool bought them out, closed the Maytag factories and rebadged their junk as Maytag. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Sooooo, by that logic, my 1943 vintage J P Sauer & Sohne K98 is not a genuine "Mauser" because it was not made in the Mauser Werke Oberndorf? GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Ho hummm! If I sell a Browninng 30-06 I don't sell it as a Mauser; if I sell and FN I don't sell it as a Mauser; If I sell a Jp Sauer and shons I don't sell it as Mauser; I don't sell my mod. 70s as Mausers. But to each his own, its really never been an issue with me, but I did create some interesting and frantic conversation..towit its still up for grabs as to what a Mauser is..I suppose I can refer to my guns as fN Mausers if it hurts some folks feelings..So the super minds allow that I can refer to the FN as a Mauser but I can't refer to the Mauser as an FN, I got it!!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Many here are confusing a design, with a maker or model. That is why your FN is clearly a Mauser, but your Mauser may, or may not, be an FN. Easy to understand. FN is just one of many makers of the exact same product. You can't just call it an FN because FN made and makes many rifles, pistols and maybe shotguns. I don't know anything about shotguns. Could be an FN49, FN-FAL, or FN Mauser to be understood. Of course Model 70s are not Mausers because they are not the same configuration as any Mauser ever made even though they use some of its design features; that does not make them Mausers so that comment is just silly, Now, back to rifles, regardless of the Model they have on them and who made them, Whether FN, or Sauer, or any of the WW2 contractors, or the Mauser factory in Oberndorf (they had another factory (ar code)); those are all Mausers. No question about it. They follow all of the form, fit, and function, and outward appearances of a 98 Mauser, no matter where it was made. After all, all of the WW2 rifles made for the German forces in WW2 by about ten civilian contractors, are clearly marked; MOD 98, and the WW1s are marked GEW 98; all are 98 Mausers. And so are FNs made to that exact pattern, regardless of what is marked on them. What about the 98s made by DWM for all the South american countries; are those not Mausers? Of course they are. Argentino 1909 Mauser made by DWM. It is not an Argentine 1909 Enfield is it? No, it follows the Mauser design so it is a Mauser, can't be anything else. You have a Mauser, with one of a number of Models assigned to it by the maker, and made by (fill in the blank the maker of the rifle you have). Deny it if anyone wants, but those who do, are wrong. | |||
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DPCD, Ok, you have totally confused me but no matter I still have my Win. mod. 70 1952 pre 64 fwt Mauser... :sofa All I can say is when I go to a gun show or anyplace else and all the bolt guns are laid out on the table, I know the FNs, the Mausers, and others on sight, I don't have to read what they are marked for that..I refer to FN as FNs. I have to look to know if they are C ring actions and hope they are..I have two and both are the exact gun that's on that full page add that's posted on this thread. That's the best I can do..amd all I require.. I recall some famous individual once said is you cannot explain it in simple terms, you don't know about it... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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