Hey guys, about six weeks ago I ordered a Cz550 FS in 9.3x62. The gun dealer was very eager to take my money and he promised delivery in eight days. Long story short, the rifle kept never coming and the dealer kept having another story. I worked at a gun store for 4 years myself and I understand how some of us rifle loonies can be annoying so I went out of my way to be mature, patient and courteous throughout this entire ordeal. Finally he called to say the rifle was in. I rushed over to pick it up. When I got there the guy started to give me a ration of BS about my choice-talking to me like I was some kind of dummy-none of his other customers have ever demanded such a thing from him-the 7mm Mags and 300 mags have been completely deadly enough, he said. I said, so what, this is what I wanted. He says "I don't know why you didn't just have me get a .35 Whelen." I told him I wanted a full length stock in a light weight rifle in a substantial caliber. I hunt the rain forest. I don't want a ten pound rifle with a 26 inch barrel and a 14 x scope. He said I was "splitting hairs" between the Whelen and the .375b H&H. I don't think I am and although I have bitten my tongue and I remain civilized and polite-because I'm still waiting for the scope rings he promised-I am not sure how I should handle our final transaction. Should I get rude and sarcastic, as he is, or should I be dignified and merely irritated by the behavior of this ingnorant beast? I have a letter prepared that explains I have hunted five states, two provinces, I shot moving targets in SE Asia and I have been a firearms instructor for the Hunter Safety classes and for a local sherris's office. Okay, maybe I'm a bit over the wall but is there any reason I should take crap from a clerk? Should any of us? So my question is: how much crap are you willing to take from a gun dealer?

Find a new gun dealer. There are several in Western Washington that are top notch. Kesselrings has the inventory and a long history, Welchers in Tacoma is good and the new guy on the block is East County Guns in Elma. I'd be rich if it wasn't for these guys. Ed

Most of the time I just finish my business with someone like this and never go back... If anybody asks I tell them of my experience...

Doesn't matter that I probably wanted to beat the crap out of the idiot however somewhere along the lines... I just finish and take my business elsewhere....

Ken....

Over the years I've found about 90% of gunshop people have never been there, never done that never bought the T-shirt. STill they like to think they know everything about everything related to firearms & shooting. If the prices are good & you can put up w/ the BS, keep buying from him, otherwise move on to another shop. I usually just smile, "yeh whatever", pay my money & move on.

The easiest way to settle the situation is to tell him to cram his opinions (and relatively limited knowledge). Finish the transaction and leave. Problem solved.

Damand your money back, the dealers is a flake. Screw that guy!

Do you go to a auto dealer to buy a diesel pickup to pull your 5th wheel and let the salescum talk you into a buying a mini suv?

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
Damand your money back, the dealers is a flake. Screw that guy!

Do you go to a auto dealer to buy a diesel pickup to pull your 5th wheel and let the salescum talk you into a buying a mini suv?

So true.... Gotta love car dealers ... Course I'm sure they'de be more then happy to sell you the $50,000 diesel over the $30,000 mini suv

Ken....

At one time, the policy was, The customer is always right." We all know that ain't true, but the policy was to keep the customer happy. happy customers always come back and spend more money.
At one time, it seems we were a more polite society, but that too has gone down the crapper.
I don't think it will get any better.
Paul B.

It's your wants, wishes, and desires that have to be pleased, not his. Keep your composure and dignity, get the rings and then shop with your feet, i.e. shop elswhere in the future. Don't lower yourself to the level of that moron.

I once worked at a gunshop part-time many years ago. The proprietor tried to push a Mauser 66 in .338 Win Mag on a young man with a lot of money but with no experience or knowledge of firearms. We had another Mauser 66 in .270 Win at the same price. I talked to the young man and found out he was only going to punch paper and deer hunt. I convinced him to take the .270 Win. The proprietor asked me later if I sold the .338 and I told him no, I talked the young man out of it. Boy was he pissed....until he found out I sold a rifle at equal price .

BTW, congrats on CZ550 FS! I have one in 6.5x55 and it's become my favorite little woods carbine. You might find that the stock CZ rings are a bit high with that stock configuration. I've got a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5~5x20 in Warne QDs on mine.

Is he the owner? If he is not and is only a clerk, I would bring his behavior to the owner's attention.

If he is the owner, I would conclude this transaction (since you are still waiting for scope mounts) and never go back or recommend his shop to others.

If he is a clerk, and the owner does nothing about this, I would also take my business elsewhere.

Had this been my experience, I believe I would complete the final transaction to get the scope rings and then I'd never be heard of again. Furthermore, if anyone ever asked me what I thought of this FFL dealer, I'd tell 'em exactly what I thought him and his caliber of customer service. Assholes will be assholes, but in retail the customer is always right. What this dude did when he dressed you down over your selection was out of line and uncalled for.

Hold him to his word on whatever he's committed to providing you with and then don't ever do business with him again. He's just screwed himself out of repeat business.

I gave up a long time ago paying any attention to what the dealer had to say. Many don't have a clue anyway. Just because they sell more of "X" doesn't make it correct for me.

Naaaah, I wouldn't just walk away. When I had my scope rings and everything was done, I'd either talk to the manager or the clerk and manager and explain that when it was my money being spent, I expected to get what I wanted. Not what was easiest for the clerk to order. I wouldn't give them any biography of where-all I had hunted but I would tell them that I usually bought x-xx guns a year and in the futher I and anyone else I talked to would be buying them elsewhere. Ta Ta.

Al agurkis,
you should know by now, Never argue with an Idiot, cause it brings you down to their level where they defeat you with vastly superior experience.
Its common human behaviour for people to try harder to convince someone the more that person may disagree.
Pick battles you can win and that are worth winning.
If he has delivered the rifle already,then just sit it out for the rings, cause all the hard work is done, unless you want to make more of an issue of it,do you really think its worth it?
Dont sweat the small stuff...and its its all small when you look back on things, right?

Well everybody else has pretty much hit the nail on the head " conclude the transaction and never go back".
I have to admit I have shot my mouth off many times over the years sometimes it worked out alright and other times it came back to bite me. I have on many occasions let suppliers, retail managers and even customers and employers know exactly where they have over stepped the line and pissed me off, sometimes this won their respect other times it concluded our business dealings. A few times I have regretably needed those services again and because I shot my mouth off they were no longer available to me.
Whatever you do think it through and chances are a civil disposition will prevail.

CZ rings are nicely made, but are too high. When they arrive I would tell the dealer that plus what I think of his advice and never go back.

I figured out in my early teens that you can tell off a moron, you can beat up a moron, but all you get out of it is a moron with a knot on his head.

My favorite gun dealer just loves the moron in the next town. A customer walks in and asks for a clip for a 1911, and the moron says he doesn't have clips. If he's in a good mood he says he has MAGAZINES, but on other days he doesn't even volunteer that much. His competition is making a good living off his "rejects".

Whenever I have had a similar situation I have held my tongue thru the lecture and then walked out of the store to never return. On a couple of occasions I have turned around and walked off before they even finish. I usually make a note to myself to tell anyone who will listen about a certain stores crappy service or just to avoid a certain clerk.

Your experience is all to common now. Get your rings, then read the clerk and owner the riot act! You are spending your money for merchandise you want, not for ill-informed opinions. The retail gun business is all too marginal for any dealer to loose customers. Most owners realize that, or will in time.

Yep, you have to love it when a gun shop clerk asks you what you NEED that rifle/bullet/whatever for? My reply is that they would probably be out of business if they relied on what "we" NEEDED and not our particular wants and desires.

When I went to buy a bunch of Rem 405s for my 458 Lott, the guy asked what I was using them for. When I said ground squirrels he thought I was full of crap

If you find a local shop that helps you out and works with you, support them the best you can. If they don't, there are many alternatives out there. As much as it pains me (I'm a small retailer myself) for my big bore stuff I usually use Midway or even Cabelas as it can be less hassle.

John

quote:

Never argue with an Idiot

Woodjack....

That doesn't apply to neither you nor I...

we spend too much time on the political forum doing just that...

quote:

Originally posted by Al Agurkis:
... Okay, maybe I'm a bit over the wall but is there any reason I should take crap from a clerk? Should any of us? So my question is: how much crap are you willing to take from a gun dealer?

No, No and None.

Obviously caught you off-guard when he attacked your choice of firearm. Probably would have caught me off-guard too.

If there is some "Good Reason" to continue doing business with this Shop(excellent prices, good on-hand inventory, close by, whatever), then you could continue to shop there, because he won't be able to catch you off guard in the future. If there is no benefit to shopping there, then it seems rather obvious to just go elsewhere.

But, lets say there is a benefit to shopping there. As a nice side benefit, you could have fun(at his expense) toying with his thoughts. He obviously believes he is some kind of all-knowing Guru. So, you can either butter him up and just laugh at him, or ask him questions so he paints himself into a Ballistics Corner in front of other customers. I prefer this latter style because you eventually make the Fool out to be, exactly what he is.

Best of luck to you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mrlexma:
Is he the owner? If he is not and is only a clerk, I would bring his behavior to the owner's attention.

If he is the owner, I would conclude this transaction (since you are still waiting for scope mounts) and never go back or recommend his shop to others.

QUOTE]

I agree! If he is just a clerk then the owner should be made aware of his behavior. If I were the owner of this shop I would want to know if one of my employees was out of line.

It just might make shopping there a better experience in the future.

I went into a local gunshop to buy some 50gr V-max for reloading for my .222rem. The owner was there, knows me, has been in this place 20+ years. I asked him for 2 boxes of the .224 moly coated V-Max. He looked at the box, looked at me and said "these are .224" - your rifle is a .222 - these will be too big" - I shit you not. I nearly burst laughing. I said ".224 is close enough, never worry". Paid my money and went home pissing myself laughing.

That is a true story, happened less than six months ago.

By getting roped into a debate with someone like that is closely analagous to participating in a knife fight in a telephone booth - although you may win, you still come out bloody. Don't go there. Just finish the transaction and head to the door, never to return. Lou

I recommend you simply ignore his comments, while remaining polite.

Usually, you can find a way to sound agreeable, while not actually saying "Yeah, you're right".

A simple, "Maybe so, but this is what I wanna try right now..." will often allow you to move on from that part of the conversation.

Above all, I recommend you not extend the dummy's oportunities to "teach" you, by telling him anything about your background.

Sometime in the future, his ignorance may give you an opportunity to buy something he doesn't recognize the value of, at a very reasonable price. In the meantime, it costs you nothing to just be polite.

I think the gun dealer was right. You deserve a good ration of BS for picking that rifle, and even more so for picking that rifle in that caliber! 9.3X62...whatever .
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HA! Just kidding. I would go back and get the mounts, then never go back. Too many people want my money, I don't need the aggravation



Terry

Sometime around 1996 I was looking for my first "big" centerfire rifle, after a whole mess of research that included talking to some of the long timers here (mainly JJHACK) I opted for a .338 win mag. Started going to all of the local shops, all of which tried to talk me into a 270 or 300 win mag. None of them cared what I wanted nor asked what my intentions were with the gun, just berated me for wanting something that was overkill for everything except big griz. I simply found what I wanted on the internet and bought it. This initially pained me because I try to support the little guys but if the little guy is a douche bag, while complaining about getting squeezed by the big chains, I have little sympathy for him. It may leave a bitter taste in your mouth to not inform him that he is a moron but your bad word of mouth will hurt him far worse.

gabe

Retailers of all types can be morons. Just explain your dissatisfaction to them and if they can't address it for you then shop elsewhere.

I find it funny that most people recommend doing nothing and going elsewhere. If everyone expressed their dissatisfaction to the manager and /or owner, just possibly, the rest of us would have less BS to put up with. No customer should be treated this way, I will not allow anyone to treat me this way. I would complain to the owner, He might actually want to know about a smart ass employee running his bread and butter off! Allowing people to walk all over you without confronting them and making it clear that that behaviour is unacceptable is why so many of these people are like that.

There are lots of that type. There are also lots of folks who feel their God-given role in life is to "straighten them out".

I know two such dealers as we speak. Most of my friends will not do business with them. On the other hand, because those two are about as bright as we in this discussion think they are, I have bought numerous really nice guns from them cheaply. My friends missed those genuine bargains because they don't go to either place any more.

I just let their prattle go in one ear and out the other, while checking the stock for bargains

500
Morons are not limited to retailers, they just have contact with more customers than the ones in the wholesale end and the govt. That said, I hate it when someone gives me an opinion that was unasked for in the buying process. You show up to look at one thing, and they explain that it's POS and you should buy this instead, just poor business. The 9.3x62 is a great round.

In the Seattle area, one can go into a number of gun stores and over hear information being disseminated to customers that is laughable.

But at Lynwood guns things are different, other gunsmiths come in to compare notes.

I really love a gun-store guy who "knows more than his customers" when he doesn't have the foggiest notion what the customer may or may not know - hell, the customer might be a real expert! The fastest way to get rid of a customer is to try to convince him that he wants something different than what he came in for! I NEVER go shopping-my wife does that! I know what I want in advance, and the only problem becomes "where do I find it??"

This is no longer a problem either, as long as my computer is working! I have my local FFL guy who charges $10.090 to do the paperwork, and I can have stuff shipped to him from anywhere on earth! I buy all my CZ rings by internet-mail order, and usually get them in 3 to 5 days.... This method generally keeps me form having to deal with ANY morons....

But, since it appears that you are a pretty reasonable, calm person, you don't need to lower yourself to the level of that dufus. Just calmly explain to him, when you go and get your rings, JUST WHY you will not be back! I can undestand perfectly what you need when hunting in that (beautiful!) rain forest up there. I've hunted in coastal Alaska, and you never know what you could encounter at a range of five feet, or less.... And if you feel you will be served better by a .366" bullet than by a .357" one, it is no business of his!

It really depends on whether the guy you talked to is the owner or just a sales puke. If it is the owner, wait for the mounts, finish the deal and don't go back. It it is a sales puke, the owner needs to know how he is treating customers.

I have a dealer where I have shopped for years. I know the owner well. We shot competitively together. There are also a couple of pawn shops in the area that also have very knowledgeable gun people that I frequently buy from. The pawn shops are in Kansas and the dealer is in Mo. They frequently transfer handguns back and forth for customers for minimal charges.

The pawn shops get together occaisionally and have live auctions for items, including guns, that they don't need or are overstocked. One day, in the shop, I heard a sales puke tell a customer that they shouldn't buy from the pawn auction because pawn shops were all bad and you were, most likely going to buy a gun that had been stolen or abused. I asked the sales puke how he knew that and he told me that ALL pawn shops were just that way.

I had a polite conversation with the owner who had suspected this kind of treatment and asked me to show him. I did, and I noticed that the sales puke does not work there any more. I hope I helped the owner.

You're from Western Washington? That sounds like a gun store in Portland. I went in there about 15 yrs ago looking for a Leupold and was told by the owner that he only sold quality stuff. Come back when you want something worth buying. I never did decide to buy "something worth buying", so never came back.
I think the name was the gun room, the gun rack, something like that.

Honestly....I am a very calm guy. Usually slow to get angry but as soon as a gun dealer insults me..And they can be real pricks. I want my money back and I'll never return and I tell all my friends and family not to use him. If he's a real assh**e I'll tell him off after I get my money in my hands. If he's just 1/2 an ass I'll just split and give 'em a bad rap. It's happened to me 3 times in life. He's a dealer not a therapist.

Funny the idea of IDIOTS at a gunshop should come up....

This past weekend I was to pick up TWENTY flats or cases of shotgun shells from a Dealer in Spokane. I had called earlier and he assured me he did in fact have twenty or more cases in both 28 and .410 in stock.

Leave Portland way earlier than I had wanted to get there in time.

Get to the shop and despite having mentioned the word CASE or FLATS several times the Clerk thought I meant that I wanted twenty BOXES of shells!!

I left with two cases of 28's and 12 boxes of .410's. What a waste of time.

FN in MT

A situation like this could be annoying but I would take it with a grain of salt. I would ask:

1) Are they convenient?
2) Cost competitive?
3) Do they offer timely service?

Go from there. Maybe you can do better, maybe not.
As far as the guy trying to tell you what you need, you need to educate the man.

I ordered the same 9.3x62 CZ550-FS gun a few years ago. It took several months to get it in. --I thought at the time that CZ must be having troubles contolling inventory. Did they have to wait for another shipment on a boat from the factory?

Could be your dealer could not get CZ-USA to deliver. If so they should be honest about it.