The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The definitve answer to the WSM questionGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| The definitve answer to the WSM question | Login/Join |
One of Us |
This is really not just exclusive to the WSM issue but it seems to be one of the favorite “silly†topics of late, in my opinion. We start with the 30-06. Now remember: 1. 95+% of all game is killed within 300 yards 2. 200 fps makes very little difference in trajectory inside of 300 yards, about 1.5 inches. 3. We can launch 150 grn projectiles at 2950fps, 165s at 2850 fps, and 180s at 2750 fps. The point being anything that say a 243 Win with a 95 grn bullet is great for a 30-06 with a 150 grn bullet is just as good for. I am excluding European cartridges not because I don't like them (I lovem) but in the formative years of the firearms industry the industry was not very global from a cartridge perspective, prior to about 1980 they were not very mainstream, and it only has been recent hisroy that you could get factory ammunition loaded to the cartridges potential. So now what do we have: 243 Win, 1955 250 Sav, 1915 257 Rob, 1934 25-06 rem, 1969 260 Rem, 1996 264 Win Mag, 1958 270 Win, 1925 7mm-08 Rem, 1980 284 Win, 1963 280 Rem, 1957 7mm Rem Mag, 1962 300 Sav, 1920 308 Win, 1952 300 Win Mag, 1963 By the way the difference in trajectory (with a 200 yd zero)and energy between 30-06 with 180 grn bullet and 300 Win mag with a 180 grn bullet at nominal velocities is…a wopping 1 ¼ inches give or take and 300 ft lbs give or take on base of 1900 ft lbs. So why do we have a 300 WSM and why is it popular. The same reason 12 other cartridges have become popular (I am excluding the Savages) and are succesful. Cause we Americans like different stuff. This doesn't even count the Weatherby magnums. Just wanted to start the New year being a little ornery. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
|
| One of Us |
Exactly. It's all good. Shoot what you like and be happy. | |||
|
| one of us |
Mike, I think you pretty much knocked this one out of the park!  ..................DJ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
|
One of Us |
Hmmm! Rational thought.... BURN HIM! BURN HIM!!!    | |||
|
one of us |
You yanks are a strange lot. Oh, wait, I'm american too, lol. I don't like different stuff. I like one of each, in triplicate.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would assume it's the same reasoning behind my buddies loading processes . Well I know that load works but maybe this will work a little better !. Got a Arsenal full of Old and some new weapons loads Everything him self for almost every caliber there is ( I'm bad enough at 16 calibers ) But that's not even in his ball park . The last I counted 54 different calibers !. Old worn out Military beaters he'll try #20 plus powers #4-6 primer combinations with Lord only knows how many projectile weights to get them to shoot tighter groups !. I've asked him before why not just Save the old original barrel and rebarrel then load a few excellent loads for it . His reply ; What's the fun of that !!!!!!!. I've got nothing else to do !. Somebody has to keep the shooting drive alive , it's kind of like , well , Gamers on Computers !. They drive the industry so the rest of us reap the reward . I personally don't need every caliber that comes along , I've got enough trouble shooting all my different weapons now . I'm guilty of Multi Different manufacturers weapons in same calibers !. So I'm no better than anybody else !. Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Of corse your right. no question about it. Thw vast majority of hunters in the lower 48 , could do all there hunting with a decent 30,06. Just about any shot the avarage huter would take with a .270 he could take with a .308. There is no practicle reason on earth for the other 13 or 14 more or less rifles I own. But i ain't running out to sell any. Its just fun. not one of my rifles are short mags. Not cause I don't like them, they work fine. But for the most part, I like older rifles and they are usually chamberd in older cartridges...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
|
| one of us |
I have two 30/06's and two 300WSM. I agree with you on the merits of the 30/06, but I really like my 300WSM. I just used mine in Africa on everything from jackal to eland with a 200 grain Nosler Partition at 2800fps. I had to shoot a follow up shot on the eland as it was going away and I got complete penetration, with the bullet exiting below the bulls chin. I also took an oryx at 350 yards. The gun's short action make for a very compact package. | |||
|
One of Us |
 Ornery is good  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
|
one of us |
That's why my 7x64 is getting a new barrel in .30-06 instead of another in 7x64. Dave One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
|
| one of us |
mike thanx i enjoyed this one although i will admit i own a 300 wsm good to be ornery DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR | |||
|
| One of Us |
I load two of the new winchester cartidges, 243 wssm and the 300 wsm.One in a Winchester and one a HS precision. What puzzels me about these cartidges is that I no longer have to trim brass ever. Am I just lucky? how come nobody else has commented on this? They are very accurate, really a special treat and all I hear is sour grapes? I give up, what goes. WFH 3. We can launch 150 grn projectiles at 2950fps, 165s at 2850 fps, and 180s at 2750 fps. The point being anything that say a 243 Win with a 95 grn bullet is great for a 30-06 with a 150 grn bullet is just as good for. I am excluding European cartridges not because I don't like them (I lovem) but in the formative years of the firearms industry the industry was not very global from a cartridge perspective, prior to about 1980 they were not very mainstream, and it only has been recent hisroy that you could get factory ammunition loaded to the cartridges potential. So now what do we have: 243 Win, 1955 250 Sav, 1915 257 Rob, 1934 25-06 rem, 1969 260 Rem, 1996 264 Win Mag, 1958 270 Win, 1925 7mm-08 Rem, 1980 284 Win, 1963 280 Rem, 1957 7mm Rem Mag, 1962 300 Sav, 1920 308 Win, 1952 300 Win Mag, 1963 By the way the difference in trajectory (with a 200 yd zero)and energy between 30-06 with 180 grn bullet and 300 Win mag with a 180 grn bullet at nominal velocities is…a wopping 1 ¼ inches give or take and 300 ft lbs give or take on base of 1900 ft lbs. So why do we have a 300 WSM and why is it popular. The same reason 12 other cartridges have become popular (I am excluding the Savages) and are succesful. Cause we Americans like different stuff. This doesn't even count the Weatherby magnums. Just wanted to start the New year being a little ornery.[/QUOTE] | |||
|
| new member |
+1 | |||
|
One of Us |
Exactly! That is the exact reason why I have a 300 wsm, 270 wsm, and a 223 wssm. At the same time though I also have and recognize the merits of the older than dirt 270 win, 30-06 (just sold to pay for my 270 wby), a 308 sav99, 7x57, and a 222 rem. On the list of future plans to build I have a 6.5x55 barreled action on the way, another action that is earmarked for a 257 bob, plans for a 375 h&h, 35 whelen, and also plans for a 25-300 wsm and possibly a .264 rocket. I also have plans in the near future to purchase a 22-250, 220 swift, 204 ruger, 9.3x62, 325 wsm, 257 wby, and a 30-30 win94. So ya see I just want a couple of guns to occupy my free time with. There may be nothing that a 300 wsm can do that a 30-06 can not, but where is the fun in having just one choice. "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." -- General George S. Patton | |||
|
One of Us |
Chevy Spint $5000 Ferrari $100,000 ++++ Both will go 55 mph and will take you were ever you want to go. Everyone makes there own choices. Get what you want don't pee on those who like something else. | |||
|
One of Us |
Did you know that according to the Hornady reloading manual, throat erosion was visible in the 223 WSSM after only 300 rounds? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Did you know that I really don't give a crap. "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." -- General George S. Patton | |||
|
One of Us |
BUT, you can always load down the more powerful cartridge. Aha! That must be worth something! Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.  | |||
|
One of Us |
OK lets substitute calibres for cars Why do people like, 4 cylinder cars, why do some like turbos, why do some like front wheel drives, others rear wheel drives, why do some like 6 cylinders, others like V8's, some like SUV's, others don't, others like pick-ups .bla bla bla....do I need to go on..... I mean, why do we need variety at all isn't that what your saying???????, why can't we all just be happy with a red 4 cylinder TOYOTA For argument sake a 4 cylinder Toyota is just fine to go from point A to point B, ...... but I like FORD V8's and SUV's, and while my backside points to the ground I will NEVER buy a 4 cylinder Toyota, even though is only slightly slower and slightly smaller than my FORD V8 SUV, can still get me from point A to point B and we can only travel at 100km or 60 MPH on the roads anyway Why don't I want to own a red 4 cylinder Toyota, because it's my choice and I like white colored FORD V8 SUV's So in answer to why aren't we all using 30-06's, and why would anybody want to own a WSM, because 30-06 are just as good as anything else out to 200 yards and only slightly lower at 200 yards...... because I don't want to use a 30-06....it's really that simple, nothing hard about it at all Hope that clears things up regards S&F | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The definitve answer to the WSM question
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia