I'm planning a family africa trip next year and two of my sons (11 & 14) have expressed an interest in hunting small plains game. I need a rifle for them. My .30-06 has too much recoil for them. I've decided on a cz550 full stock. Short and pretty. Question is caliber. My son wants something like the .223 he's used to. I think that and the .243 seem too small. I'm debating 6.5 X 55 or 270. I've not shot either. Can someone tell me how recoil compares between these two and how they compare to the .30-06? I'm leaning toward the 6.5 as I've been told the 270 is not much less recoil than the .30-06.

Both are great choices.
If you reload, you will get far more variety with the 6.5 than with the 270.
Also it is maybe a bit classier in a full stock.

The 270 in my closet used to be my go-to gun, and it is a great caliber.
Works perfectly on pigs, sheep, and deer.

-Spencer

Recoil of the 270 vs the 06 for a child I believe will be about the same. 6.5x55 or 260 rem I believe will be quite a bit less. Remember much of recoil is due to the bullet weight/velocity etc. Check out some of the reduced loads for your 06 and you might find what you're looking for. My best advice would be to find a couple of friend who have the rifles you are thinking about, borrow them for a shot or 2 and have the kids try it out. I think you might be suprised that the kids are tougher than you think

7x57 with 140's. Recoil is light, and it has Africa all over it.

If the CZ comes in 7mm08, thats what I'd get, Craig Boddington had his daughter use a Kimber chambered in the 708 loaded w/150 Sciroccos,(for Africa) and she did very well with it, if not the 708, 7x57. Jay

Well, since the CZ comes in neither the 708 or 7x57, I'd go with the 308, loaded with some 165 Hornady Interbonds. Jay

http://www.cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=18

Your right about the 270 Verses 30-06 recoil. If someone handed me either one and wanted to know which was which I don't think I could tell the differance, though the 270 might be a tad less due to lighter bullet weights.

Why not lighter bullets and reduced loads in the 30-06? other than the stock length issue

I'd have bet green dollars that the CZ came in 7x57, good thing I'm not a betting man

Because of the detachable magazine on the .308, I'd go with the 270. The recoil is less than a 30-06. I have both and the 270 with 130's is definitely lighter recoiling than a 30-06.

Some particular rifle chambered in .260 Remington from any one of several manufacturers would suffice quite well for the task at hand....reduced recoil...accurracy....killing power! Loaded with 100 grain Noslers or 120 grain Noslers(or several other manufacturers bullets in those weights) would be a pleasant, low recoil, accurrate and effective choice! GHD

.308Win.

quote:

Originally posted by citori:
I'm planning a family africa trip next year and two of my sons (11 & 14) have expressed an interest in hunting small plains game. I need a rifle for them. My .30-06 has too much recoil for them. I've decided on a cz550 full stock. Short and pretty. Question is caliber. My son wants something like the .223 he's used to. I think that and the .243 seem too small. I'm debating 6.5 X 55 or 270. I've not shot either. Can someone tell me how recoil compares between these two and how they compare to the .30-06? I'm leaning toward the 6.5 as I've been told the 270 is not much less recoil than the .30-06.

Thanks for your responses. I'm not considering the short action cartridges because the cz550 uses a detachable magazine. I don't like these so I'm thinking long action.

I'm also beginning to think about a Ruger compact in 7-08. Any thoughts on that as an alternative? Stock is shorter, but very light and that may contribute to recoil.

Citori,

You might spend a little time looking for a used CZ in 7x57. My friend who does all my reloading shoots just that; it even has a "set" (?) trigger for accuracy, the sort where you "push" the trigger forward and it breaks at 1 lb.

He told me the other day that CZ is no longer selling 7x57s in America in the 550, so used is your only option if you want that combo.

Good luck,

friar

Winchesters Featherweight rifle comes in 7x57, and I personally think thats the best cartridge for the job at hand. But a Ruger rifle will certainly work. The 7-08 is just a modern 7x57.

7mm-08

The 7x57 is just as good, but the 7-08 will come in lighter rifles and that will be a big plus for your son.

quote:

Originally posted by citori:
Thanks for your responses. I'm not considering the short action cartridges because the cz550 uses a detachable magazine. I don't like these so I'm thinking long action.

I'm also beginning to think about a Ruger compact in 7-08. Any thoughts on that as an alternative? Stock is shorter, but very light and that may contribute to recoil.

If you're going to go compact, get the model 7 youth or the normal size 7, youth has a LOP of 12 3/8ths, the model 7s are accurate little rigs, found this out firsthand when loading for a friend, 139 Hornady SP over 40.5grs. Varget went .505" for the first 3 shots @100yds. Jay

citori, This post aought to get the board going....."If you're thinking about a Ruger, you're thinking WRONG!!!!" Get the kid a Remington 700 Youth Model in .260 or 7mm-08!! Be done with it!! GHD

As mentioned by one poster above there are reduced laods both commercial and hand loaded but then you get into the problem of two zeroes if you plan on using the same rifle yourself.
An alternative could very well be to pick which ever rifle you and the kids like best in almost any of the choices mentioned above. Then customise the load for the kids. This would let you plan ahead for when they are older and able to handle more recoil. Sorry for openning more choices but as problems go more options are better than fewer.

Thanks for the responses. This is tough. Seems I can buy a rifle that fits today that they'll outgrow, or get an ill fitting rifle they'll grow into. I'm thinking of getting that cz 550 fs because it's what Dad really wants! Picking up a used 7 X 57 would be great, but I don't have the patience to shop around.

The problems of parenting!!!

I would go with a 7x57 and load the Speer 130 gr. bullet at about 2400 to 2500 FPS...that is an exceptional bullet on big game and performs to perfection at up to 3000 FPS...Recoil is very little.

Shots will be fairly close for them and it will suit them fine....

The 6.5X55 is really hard to beat if you want a low recoiling round. I own both .243 and .270 as well and my very light weight 6.5 with a good recoil pad actually has less felt recoil than my .243. With 140 grain Nosler partition handloads I would not feel undergunned on animals up to the size of an elk at ranges under 300 yards (broadside shoots). I've taken over 40 feral hogs with the 6.5 and the penetration has been exceptional.

quote:

Originally posted by Mohawk:
The 6.5X55 is really hard to beat if you want a low recoiling round. I own both .243 and .270 as well and my very light weight 6.5 with a good recoil pad actually has less felt recoil than my .243. With 140 grain Nosler partition handloads I would not feel undergunned on animals up to the size of an elk at ranges under 300 yards (broadside shoots). I've taken over 40 feral hogs with the 6.5 and the penetration has been exceptional.

What he said!
Cheers

This is one thread where ALMOST all of the posted opptions are workable.Whether you go with a 6.5, 7mm, or larger capacity cases with a reduced load the results are going to be the same. The kids are going to enjoy themselves and are going to score. Personally I consider the biggest factor to be for younsters that the rifle really fits. Stocks can be extended later in life if need be. you might think about recoil pads and or paded shooting (hunting type) vests. roger

I'd go with the 7X57 aswell. My 11 year old nephew used one on his first hunting trip and had no issues with the recoil of the rifle. He found it easier to handle than a .223 Rem

Another choice would be the CZ in 308. Just use either Remingtons or Federals reduced recoil load. They are designed for deer sized game to 200 yards.

When you decide on a rifle, see if Hogue makes an overmolded stock for it and cut the butt to length. You'll probably need to epoxy in some wood to screw the recoil pad to but it is a nice stock and quite reasonable. If you do a nice job with the recoil pad you can sell it when they have outgrown it, or else they can stash it away somewhere for a decade or so to save it for their kids...

Citori,

I have a 6.5x55 full stock CZ. I like it a lot. It's very accurate, even with Winchester factory 140gr loads. And it doesn't kick much.

I recommend it. LOP isn't any shorter than standard CZ, though. If LOP is too long, reaching way forward to support the barrel and fore-end will be tough for a little guy.

Steve

citori, look into the Rem. Model 7 Youth Synthetic in 7mm-08. The round has reasonable recoil, but is powerful enough to take large game with well-placed shots. (Boddington's daughter took a zebra, and I've known a number of people who've used it with success on elk). The Model 7 Youth Synthetic has a shorter stock which will fit your son well, and it comes with the Remington T3 Recoil pad, which is a must for a young or recoil-shy shooter. I have a 7 Rem Mag with a nice recoil pad (Decelerator) on it and a 7mm-08 with a factory rubber pad, and the felt recoil is actually better with the 7 RM. I guarantee that a good recoil pad like the one on the Model 7 will make the 7mm-08 pleasant to shoot for your son.

If you want to be certain that there will be NO recoil issue and still have decent range, accuracy and power for small plains game, the 6.5X55 or the 260 Rem will definitely work. Either will shoot a 120 gr pill 3000 fps with the same sectional density and Ballistic coefficient as the 270 with a 130 grainer. Don't forget that the 160 gr 6.5 bullet has killed everthing that walks in africa, so these rounds are NOT pop guns!

quote:

I would go with a 7x57 and load the Speer 130 gr. bullet at about 2400 to 2500 FPS...that is an exceptional bullet on big game and performs to perfection at up to 3000 FPS...Recoil is very little.

Shots will be fairly close for them and it will suit them fine....

I defer to the distinguished gentleman from the state of Idaho...
Mr. Atkinson, I heartily agree, with the possible suggestion that a Swift A-Frame or similar bullet be used. Energy is a function of mass, and energy transfer is a function of residence time. The slower bullet will spend more time inside the animal so more energy will be transferred, and premium bullets will retain more mass during the trip, so more momentum and deeper penetration should be guaranteed.
If I had my druthers, every bullet would penetrate the off-side and immediately fall to the ground. All else is wasted energy...

"If the opposite of pro is con, what is the opposite of progress?"

Hi, My latest toy is a Rem Titanium in 7mm-08 it shoots straght, recoil is mild and it kills well with standard Rem ammunition. Perhaps one in 260 would be good for your son. Either that or a Kimber.
Just my 2p's worth.

Ruger makes fine rifles and I have owned several. I have a 7mm-08 encore at the moment and I think its a great round, enough so that thinking of gettting a remington model 7 in the same caliber. I have always been a bolt action man and prefer 308, 243 and now 7mm-08

quote:

Originally posted by citori:
Thanks for your responses. I'm not considering the short action cartridges because the cz550 uses a detachable magazine. I don't like these so I'm thinking long action.

I'm also beginning to think about a Ruger compact in 7-08. Any thoughts on that as an alternative? Stock is shorter, but very light and that may contribute to recoil.

citori

I agree with tmoore get him a Rem. youth model then go to ebay and pick up a full size stock for when he out grows the youth model.

quote:

Originally posted by skl1:
Citori,

I have a 6.5x55 full stock CZ. I like it a lot. It's very accurate, even with Winchester factory 140gr loads. And it doesn't kick much.

I recommend it. LOP isn't any shorter than standard CZ, though. If LOP is too long, reaching way forward to support the barrel and fore-end will be tough for a little guy.

Steve

Ditto. Same gun/chambering here! The CZ550 FS is a fine carbine and the cartridge is a very capable deer round and is very mild in the recoil department. Dad and kids will enjoy it!

You might want to think about getting a rifle with a stock the boys can grow into, and have a rifle done for them now with a thumb-hole stock. My smith tells me that these typically reduce felt recoil. I'd agree with the comment about the 270 being equal to the 270. The 6.5 or 7mm would be excellent in any of their several incarnations.I personally would favor the 6.5Swede, but the 7-08 and 7x57 are very good choices. If yo could find a 6.5Swede with infantry length barrel (29"), and have it cut and fitted with a brake, it would really be a sweet heart. Later, you take off the brake and treat it like on of the original short barrel guns. The 7-08 in a long action can do everything the 7x57 will do except being the grand old cartridge the 7x57 is. Use heavy bullets and low velocity. Kudude

I'd check the new Win. featherweight in 6.5x55.

Thanks for the responses, but I'm thinking of a new strategy. I have a Win. m70 featherweght in .30-06. Throught the years I've also collected four stocks. I'm now thinking of cutting down one of the stocks and loading some light recoil loads. Barnes, Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, Speer, have 125 to 130 gr. bullets I'm thinking of using. Hodgdon has reduced recoil loads using H4895.

What do you think of this strategy? Does anyone have pet reduced recoil loads? How do you think the 130 grain bullets would do on light plains game (Impala, Grants Gazelle)? I'm leaning toward the Barnes.

I like the H-4895 reduced loads for practice with Hornady 130 grain bullets. The load is 70% of maximum. The case does not get filled up though, and accuracy is only so-so. I have never shot this load at game, so I can not comment.

I would leave the barrel long, put a weight in the butt, and get some shooting sticks to shoot off of. Weight is your friend in recoil and the shooting sticks will hold up the rifle if you are at his side to help. Wear hearing protection and glasses, and practice.

Good luck.

The die is cast! Removed existing recoil pad (2 min.). Masked end of stock and cut 3/4" off stock in mitre box usin butt of existing stock as guide to keep things square (5 min.). Replaced recoil pad and sanded it to fit (20 min.). Touched up stock with furniture touch up pens (2 min.). Total time invested less than 30 minutes and the job actually looks like a pro did it! Sometimes I amaze myself!

Now I just need your help on loads and bullet advice!

By the way, the stock is hollowed out. I never knew that!

Sounds like a highly practical solution. I did much the same with a Model 7 in .243 for my son 12 yr.s ago when he was 11. I replaced the wooden stock with a composite stock five yr.s ago and he's still shooting it comfortably today even though he's @15" taller.