Seems like we get more and more of these titanic cartridges. Cartridges with the capacity of a Tylonal bottle beneath tiny little bullets. I realize some of them are useful, but 100 grains behind a .30 cal bullet? I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere. I know some people who think anything over an 06' is too big. Me, I like the .300 Win Mag. Anything over this and you start paying a heavy toll in recoil, muzzle blast, and plain out inefficency... adding 20 grains of powder to get 100 fps. Some of the bigger guys might be fun to own and play with, but I really don't see a need for these super mags. Where do you guys draw the line?
My gut tells me the 300 RUM is apt to be a barrel burner, but I don't honestly know anyone but competitive rifle shooters who actually wear out barrels (and those are in sensible military calibers).
H. C.
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001
I think all first timers should buy the biggest and badest out there. It really opens up the used marget for the guys that like to shoot them. Some of the best buys are from people who brought to big of a rifle and can not stand the recoil or know that for 99% of the shots they take a 270 06 class is all they need.
Posts: 19692 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001
The only line I can draw is my own. I like the original Holland & Holland belted magnums; Winchester's original .300 Winchester and .338 Winchester; Remington's 7mm Remington and .416 Remington, plus the .458 Lott (I don't own a Lott just yet). Those cartridges represent my own personal line of power for anything I'll hunt in the future, and it's likely that I'll hunt for the next thirty years with these cartridges, plus the good .270 Winchester.
If someone wants to make a case against my selections because the cases (except for the .270) wear belts or because they aren't the latest or most powerful cartridges available to day, they may go right ahead.
I'll still use 'em as I have before and they'll still work as they have before.
quote:Originally posted by FarRight: Seems like we get more and more of these titanic cartridges. Cartridges with the capacity of a Tylonal bottle beneath tiny little bullets. I realize some of them are useful, but 100 grains behind a .30 cal bullet? I think there has to be a line drawn somewhere. I know some people who think anything over an 06' is too big. Me, I like the .300 Win Mag. Anything over this and you start paying a heavy toll in recoil, muzzle blast, and plain out inefficency... adding 20 grains of powder to get 100 fps. Some of the bigger guys might be fun to own and play with, but I really don't see a need for these super mags. Where do you guys draw the line?
This can become a highly personal area for discussion, ranging from the .50 M-2 case necked to .14 caliber crowd down to the opposite end with those who believe that the .308 bore can't use more powder than is held by the .30 W.C.F. case. Whith all that said, in this i will have to go along with mr. Ackley and his most favourite wildcats. The balance seems to be in .25 cal. the improved Roberts case, in 7mm, the improved 7mmx57mm case, in calibers from .30 to .338, the improved '06 case, and from the .375 up through the .458 bore, the improved full length H&H case.
I think there was a misunderstanding here. I wasn't asking you to draw the line for others. I just wanted to know where YOU drew the line for YOURSELF. Where do you feel the line between sensible and insane lies?
My personal line is currently the .300WSM, because it is plenty for what I am hunting now. If I go after bigger game that requires a bigger gun I will get what is suitable.
Posts: 323 | Location: Back Home in Aus. | Registered: 24 September 2001
There is no line, for me anyways, if i could get a rifle chambered in 20mm Vulcan i would shoot it. Of course i would neck it down to a .17 Remington. Seriously i wont go bigger than 300 RUM. No need here, deer arent that dangerous yet.
Why not select a few more inches in a barrel? Inventory management can be a problem.
I have several .30-06 from 18.5" to 26". The 26" full of IMR4350 is close enough to a 24" .300 Win. so that mule deer have never known the difference. The carbine is wonderful with Barnes X's, of which I like 165 gr. and 200 gr.
I have never recovered a 200 gr. X in 7.62x51, .30-06, or .300 Win., the way I like it.
I find that cases with capacities of 60-75 gr of powder work well in bores of .264" to .375". For 40-45 caliber, it seems that 80-100 gr powder is bout right, and for 50 cal, 100-120 gr.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
The line for me is at the .375 Improved for reasons of recoil and the lack of anything to shoot at with a bigger caliber.
For reasons of money and time I really only have a need for guns suitable for the shooting sports near New England. That means that a regular cartridge would do it all.
But my wants have me owning a couple of .375 and .300 magnums. I never liked the .45's that I had. For me they were "high kick - low hit" But if I went to Africa to shoot dangerous game I would borrow one there. I have no desire to shoot one here.
quote:Originally posted by boltman: If you don't like it then don't buy it. Myself, I have no use for a 300 RUM, but I'm not going to tell anyone else they shouldn't own one.
That is a great comment, because I know people who want to see how fast they can get .30 240gr bullets or want the flatest shooting gun possible. That is not my thing but it is their's.
I do pretty fine with 7mm-08, up to .375 H&H with a .280, .300 H&H and a .338-06 inbetween. I have a few friends who insist on having the newest and baddest, problem is both can't hit anything with them. Personally any caliber that truly NEEDS a muzzle brake to be user friendly is IMHO too much.
FN
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
"A'int 'nothin a man can't fix with a few hundred dollars and a thirty ought six." Can't remember where I heard it but I sure do like that saying.
Most likely you heard it or read it from Jeff Cooper. IIRC one of his sons in law had $700 and an ought 6 when he married the daughter, which prompted the line. I forget who it was exactly originated the line, but Jeff says $600 because it sounds better.
jim dodd
Posts: 4166 | Location: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: 14 November 2001
If you can shoot it, then there is no limit. Drawing lines is a bad idea. I don't understand why us the shooter crowd would want to say there is no need for this or that. Or serious bowhunters would say there is no need for a muzzleloader, or flinters say there is no need for inlines, or serious blackpowder hunters say there is no need for rifle hunting. Or hunters looking at AR shooters that don't hunt saying "why do you need that. I am sure that PETA would love to have hunters draw lines out there. As men, we have always strived for more. More accuracy, more technology, just plain faster, flatter, harder hitting, etc etc. I support freedom to own any gun you want. I love all guns, besides the 25APC. If I had my choice, I would have one of all guns. My house would look like a gun museum. We shouldn't constain ourselves. If someone wants to have a 50Cal Desert Eagle or even a 416Rigby handgun, then I say thats cool. But I will have to pass on the offer to take a few shots. If we keep it up and don't stick together, well end up with a situation like England. I mean with a mineset like there is nothing needed more than a 06 for North America animals, what about as a bowhunter if I say there is nothing more needed than a recurve bow for Moose, Bear or deer and anybody that would use a gun is no hunter at all? If we all was the same, we would be driving the same truck, living in the same kinda house, working the same kinda job. That would be one boring ass place.
When your shooting a gun that you don't shoot well and don't enjoy shooting, there's my line. Back off a little, and try something else, load, rifle, something. I found that the line can shift based on how much shooting you do, so don't give up, just enjoy the shooting and or hunting.
Posts: 1944 | Location: Moses Lake, WA | Registered: 06 November 2001
Bigcountry said it very well indeed, why the hell do we want to draw lines. You shoot what you want to shoot and I will do the same. I shoot all the standard chamberings that have been around for years, from .222 up to 30-06. One of my all time favourites is a lever action 30-30 Marlin 336, my very first high powered rifle. At present I own and shoot regularly the following. .257 Wby, 7mm STW, 7mm Rem, .300 Win, .340 Wby, .358 STA, .416 Rem. I also am shooting a .300 Ultra mag and a .338 Lapua for two buddies who wanted me to work up them a load. If you don't want to enjoy the variety of shooting the Magnum's, that is your business, but I don't want anyone telling me to draw a line and not shoot anything new that comes along. I can't wait to get my hands on a .270 WSM. Telling a shooter to draw a line on a new chambering is like telling a man to look at only redheads. Balderdash, bring on the new stuff, I will give it a whirl, of course I am refering to guns. Good shooting.
I agree that we should not draw lines for other people.
My personal opinion though, is that, for hunting purposes, these magnums are a waste of time and money. Their flatter trajectory has no advantage over practical hunting distances, and dead is dead.
Developing these super magnums is good for business and if owning one makes you feel good, by all means go ahead.... I just hope you are honest enough with yourself about the results you obtain with it.
From what I have experienced in real hunting situations, it is the guys with the magnums that cause the problems. Because their rifles cause so much meat damage over short distances, they are forced to take head shots or take very long shots - and most of them are not good enough to accomplish that faultlesly every time. The result is wounded animals that have to be tracked, with the resultant loss in hunting time for the rest of the hunting party.
Although they will not readily admit it a lot of them are also afraid of their rifles. The fact remains that you do shoot better with a milder recoiling rifle.
So, why hunt with a super magnum if it has no practical advantage ?
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Good shooting.
