Are all the Weatherby Vanguards in stainless/synthetic pillar bedded or just the sub MOA ones? Also are the barrels free floated?

Thanks,

Chuck

I want to say just the Sub MOA on both counts. I have seen a few normal Vanguards that needed to be floated quite a bit, real tight on the fore end/barrel contact. Plus you get the upgraded stock on the sub moa

weatherby's website doesn't list the reg Vanguard as being either free floated or pillar bedded. It does say that they are in an injection molded stock. However, for the extra $500 they want for the sub moa, you can throw away the rubbermaid, and put a pretty fair stock on a plain vanguard. Even up to the accurate innovations stuff. Just a thought.

The standard Vangaurd has no bedding of any kind.... the stock fit at the recoil lug is very loose...the barrel channel is tight with a TON of tip preasure.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The standard Vangaurd has no bedding of any kind.... the stock fit at the recoil lug is very loose...the barrel channel is tight with a TON of tip preasure.

Remington's also have pressure points at the end of the stock.

I read in one of the shooting/hunting mags that the sub MOA rifles (Weatherby) are the same as the non sub MOA other than when they test fire them and find it shoots sub MOA, they put a higher price on it.

quote:

Originally posted by 338zmag:

I read in one of the shooting/hunting mags that the sub MOA rifles (Weatherby) are the same as the non sub MOA other than when they test fire them and find it shoots sub MOA, they put a higher price on it.

I'd heard this as well, but on the website, they do list the sub MOA as being pillar bedded.

nothing wrong with a pressure "bedded" barrel...there is a pad at the front of the forearm to purposely put pressure on the barrel...works good most of the time, especially with a lighter weight barrel...i have had 3 vanguards that were/are pressure bedded and all of them shot great...especially the 300 that i sold...regrets...

after reading a little closer, the vanguards have some shims under the action, around the bolts...works similar to pillar bedding and just like pillar bedding you want to make sure you don't over tighten the action screws or can cause issues.

Before I would spend the money I have seen on the SMOA Vangaurds I would buy a used MK V SBGM or Ultralight for the same money and a much better rifle in every respect of the matter.

I had a Vangaurd in 7 Rem Mag with the tan/spiderweb stock, it shot very good but I sold it after buying a MK V SBGM in 7 Rem Mag with the tan/spiderweb Bell/Carlson Meadalist stock.

After giving them a head to head comparison....it was no contest, apples to oranges and USA vs Jappan....I sold the Vangaurd.

I have a Sub-MOA and would not go that route again. I WOULD, however, buy another Vanguard in a tupperware stock and order a McMillan to bed it into. Same money and a much better set-up. The Sub-MOA stock is a B&C Carbelite with aluminum pillars and, to me at least, it sucks. I'm thinking hard on a McMillan for it now. I love the rifle (300 Roy), but don't like the stock, too flimsy.

David

Sub-MOA piller bedded.

All free floaated.

I have two SUBMOAS. They are both pillar bedded. The recoil lugs are also glass bedded and there are two side by side pressure points at the end of the forearms. Kinda like two small humps. Apparently, Weatherby like Remington prefers to use forearm pressure points on their rifles...at least on the Vanguard SUBMOAS. I've never pulled the barreled action on a standard Vanguard so I don't know if they are free floated or not.

The answer on both questions are no. But what ever they use works like a charm. My 338wm under 1/2" with old 300gr Winchester power points. Almost same with 250gr Rem Corloks. Why pay extra for expensive stock, bedding etc. Would like to restock later in nice timber work, but for looks only!!!

Cheers
Johan

quote:

Originally posted by 338zmag:
I read in one of the shooting/hunting mags that the sub MOA rifles (Weatherby) are the same as the non sub MOA other than when they test fire them and find it shoots sub MOA, they put a higher price on it.

This is false.

The Sub-MOA have a different stock that is pillar bedded. I believe it is a B & C.

quote:

Originally posted by Johanv:
What ever they use works like a charm. My 338wm under 1/2" with old 300gr Winchester power points. Almost same with 250gr Rem Corloks. Why pay extra for expensive stock, bedding etc.

You are very lucky. Most will not shoot good without work.

New factory Vanguard's need to be firelapped.

Also standard Vanguard's need to have the entire barrel channel relieved, the stock pillar bedded and the entire action fully glass bedded to realise the superb machining tolerances of the barrel/action. Excellent rifle for the money.

The factory synthetic stock is made by Butler Creek and if you take out enough material to get a good, deep action bedding it will hold true. Also the entire forearm needs to be channeled out under the barrel and epoxy poured right up to the barrel to reinforce it.(Apply several layers of masking tape on the barrel to maintain free float)

Use Lepage Regular epoxy for the forend and Devcon 10110 for the pillars and action. Or use Devcon 10110 for everything if bought to do 1 rifle only.

quote:

Would like to restock later in nice timber work, but for looks only!!!

Check out the Boyd JRS walnut and laminate for under $100.00 finished.

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/...ngaurd-Howa-s/32.htm

The Howa 1500 is the same rifle as the Vanguard.

Both are made in Japan by Howa.

The Howa offers a few different options. Legacy Sports is the importer of the Howa product. They have a new website:

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/index.html

The Howa/Hogue 375 Ruger is the best value in a DGR rifle. You need to do some work to the Hogue stock first. It needs to be reinforced with epoxy throughout as explained above.

http://www.legacysports.com/pr.../specs_375ruger.html

The M-1500 barreled actions also provide excellent value if wanting to build a custom rifle in a custom stock. Timney makes a replacment trigger for the rifle.

http://www.legacysports.com/pr...howa_baractions.html

Also added to the website is a barrel break-in procedure.

In addition to this procedure, I recommend firelapping the tool marks out of the factory barrel.

BREAK-IN PROCEDURE FOR GUN BARRELS USING JACKETED BULLETS

For the first ten shots we recommend using jacketed bullets with a nitro powder load (Most Factory Ammo). Clean the oil out of the barrel before each shot using a simple window cleaner (like Windex®) which will soak the oil out of the pores. After firing each cartridge, use a good copper cleaner (one with ammonia) to remove the copper fouling from the barrel. We do not recommend anything with an abrasive in it since you are trying to seal the barrel, not keep it agitated.

After cleaning with bore cleaner, clean again with window cleaner after each shot. Use window cleaner because many bore cleaners use a petroleum base which you want to remove before firing the next shot. This will keep the carbon from building up in the barrel (oil left in the pores, when burned, turns to carbon).

To keep the temperature cool in the barrel, wait at least 5 minutes between break-in shots. The barrel must remain cool during the break-in procedure. If the barrel is allowed to heat up during the break-in, it will destroy the steel’s ability to develop a home registration point, or memory. It will have a tendency to make the barrel “walk” when it heats up in the future. We have all seen barrels that, as they heat up, start to shoot high and then “walk” to the right. This was caused by improperly breaking in the barrel (generally by sitting at a bench rest and shooting 20 rounds in 5 minutes or so). If you take a little time in the beginning and do it right, you will be much more pleased with the barrel in the future.

Look into the end of the barrel after firing a shot, and you will see a light copper-colored wash in the barrel. Remove this before firing the next shot. Somewhere during the procedure, around shot 6 or 7, it will be obvious that the copper color is no longer appearing in the barrel. Continue the window cleaner and bore cleaner applications through shot 10.

Following the initial ten shots, you then may shoot 2 rounds, cleaning between each pair of shots, for the next 10 shots. This is simply insuring that the burnishing process has been completed. In theory, you are closing the pores of the barrel metal that have been opened and exposed through the cutting and hand lapping procedures.