I keep hearing that 7mm rem mag is hard on barrels
and I just recently purchased a 26" Browning A-bolt composite. Is there a load that will tend to shorten the life of my barrel? I hand load mainly
for accuracy rather than velocity but should I stay away from heavy bullets or certain powders?
This is a sub MOA rifle out of the box and I want
to keep it for a long time. I've shot about 100
rounds so far and some groups around 3/4" using
150 nosler BT's and 7/8" with speer 160 spbt. I've
been using RL-19 , WXR, and IMR4831 and CCI250
primers. I clean the bore and chamber after 15-20
rounds. Any and all input appreciated! BLR7...

Shoot it as little as possible outside of serious practice, and space your shots out when practicing (a minute or more between shots).

George

This method works 100% of the time. Buy lots of rifles. I suggest at least five and thirty is better. Take three with you to the range each time and rotate them but of course there is a favorite that gets to go most of the time.

I got my second 7MM Rem Mag in 1969 and the only reason the barrel wore out is that it was the wrong twist. It was still smooth but just a little soft and the 160's started to tumble. I hunted with that rifle a lot.

Just shoot it.

Another idea is to work up a "7MM Mauser" load for it. I have one now for my 7MM WSM. It's 49 grs of 4895 and a 140 gr bullet and mag primers. It shoots very small groups. I am using it for Coyote hunting and practice as I can't see much over 200 yds anyway where I shoot. This is a fun load. Yes also try to pace your shots. Fire three rounds as slow as you can and then pick up another rifle and do the same with that one.

I had a 7mm Remington Mag, since 1968. It was the second centerfire rifle I bought. And till the late 1980's I had hunted with it at least one trip per year, some time more than one. Shot all kinds of game with it over the years. took it to Africa as it was my only big rifle at the time back in 1971. My records show that I have put some 3160 shots thru that barrel, it never shot better than 1.2 inches at one hundred yards and the last group I shot with it printed 1.8 inches. Yep I may be looking at a new barrel, for that old Remington 700. Barrels last a lot longer than you would think if they are taken care of. If you are looking to just shoot targets, then get yourself a 6.5 swede. But once you get your loads, then you are only looking at a few dozen shots per year, your grandson will be shooting that rifle. Besides a new barrel fitted and installed is not a whole lot of money.

[ 01-30-2003, 23:10: Message edited by: George Semel ]

For goodness sake, go on and enjoy your rifle and forget about shooting out the barrel! If you don't get the thing extraordinarily hot you will have to shoot a long time before you have to be concerned anyway. By that time you will have had enough enjoyment from the process to make a new barrel worth it. I have put hundreds and hundreds of full throttle loads through one with no noticable no throat erosion problems and no loss of accuracy. Now the 7mm Ultra Mag I am presently working with is another matter. I may actually shoot the barrel out of it but even then I bet it will take some serious shooting. So far the only barrel I have "shot out" was simply because I was stupid enough to keep blasting pasture poodles long past the time I should have let the barrel cool down. Good shooting!

Let the barrel cool between strings at the range, and you'll be fine. Large doses of slow burning powder. That's always going to be a little tougher on barrels than small doses of a fast burning powder. But then again, a hemi under the hood of a funny car doesn't get the fuel mileage of a Honda Civic, but who cares?

When I built my 20BR, I asked my gunsmith about barrel life. His response was simply, "When you wear out the barrel, just put another one on it."

Use H-870 powder (or WC-860 surplus) with 160 or 175 grain bullets. It has a cooler burning temperature than most of the stick powders and therefore causes less throat erosion.

Thanks to all of you guys for the great info.
I am currently working up a optimal charge load
for 140gr partitions with Rl-19. I am trying to
follow the GREEN788 method I found on this forum.
I used almost that same method in the past except
I would shoot all five loads in each increment of
powder weight at the same target but I will try the "round robin" target firing this weekend. I
like to practice in 30-40 degree weather as it seems to cool the barrel quicker between shots,
and that's when I find less crowding at the range.
My goal is to handload a more accurate load than
the Remington factory 150gr cor-loks but so far
my best groups have been the factory loads (.6"
at 100yds for 5 shots). I read somewhere that
remington developed their factoy 7mm mag loads
using IMR7828 and I may try that next. I don't
know which I like more; the reloading or the shooting, but when you put them both together it
becomes an addiction for me. Yes I shoot a lot and
I have a Win mod70 .270 that needs a new barrel
right now because of my hot loads and rapid shooting in years past, and that is why I will
take this board's advice. Good shooting and hunting to all of you! BLR7

One of my current goals is to shoot enough to wear out the barrels on my 7mm Rem Mag, my .358 Norma Magnum and my .375 H&H Magnum!

I figure if I am shooting enough to do that, well, I guess that I will be shooting enough!

If you don't shoot so rapidly that your barrel gets really hot, you should be able to get 2500 shots or more before the barrel is "worn out" (depending of course on your accuracy criterion).

jpb

BLR7, you understand, of course, that you just won't walk out one day and your rifle will be spraying bullets all over. Its an incremental thing. This is why you should keep a binder on each rifle and save your targets, the good, the bad and the downright ugly so you will have a comparison. Also, every 1000 rounds or so, re-check the seating depth of your bullets. Seating them out a few thousandths can sometimes tighten you groups back up for a while.
As posted above, heat is your enemy. When working from the bench, take a couple of other guns and rotate them so each has a chance to cool down between sticks. I wait one minute between shots (by a watch) when shooting from the bench.

I bought my Ruger 77 in 78 and before I knew better I'd go to the range and put 50 rounds through it one after the other. This rifle is still capable of holding 5 shots inside 1 1/2" at 100yds. Shoot slowly and allow the barrel to cool but I wouldn't worry about barrel wear for the next 20 yrs or so.

"When you wear out the barrel, just put another one on it."

The above statement is the best answer. It means you will have had a lot of good shooting

Thanks for this post, as it confirms what I've always supsected. I take no more than 2 quick shots with my 300 WinMag, and then I let it sit for a while. I notice my groups start wandering if the barrel heats up anyway.

I plan to get a 22LR bolt action soon to shoot between the big booms. As it is now I get off maybe 20-30 rounds, but if I fill in the gaps with a 22 I should be able to pull the trigger a few hundered times.

Hot Core:
Thanks for your input. I was wondering how I was
going to set up and fire on five differant targets
at the range I use anyway. My real feeling is that
any three rounds of the same load weight should
tell the story by size of group and relative position from POA and indicate quickly the optimal
charge weight area I am looking for. The more you shoot, the more likely you are to introduce errors
from heat and barrel fouling. After all my intentions are not to test the upper limits of the
rifle's accuracy such as in combat shooting where
sustained accuracy is important. I am preparing
my loads for future hunting which rarely requires
more than three shots. From my own experience I
have developed optimal loads through trial and error and gotten off track because of occasional
flyers due to shooting that fourth and fifth round
which is often misleading. I want the confidence
that comes from shooting that optimal load enough
times at the range in various conditions to know
that I can hit where I aim at all times. I am hoping there is an elk out there this year with
my name on it and I will be ready! BLR7

You may want to post this on the cast bullet board. There, you can find out how to shoot enjoyable loads, that will use up more powder and lead than you can afford to shoot in your lifetime, while having LOTS of shooting fun.

BLR7: "I was wondering how I was going to set up and fire on five differant targets at the range I use anyway. My real feeling is that any three rounds of the same load weight should tell the story by size of group and relative position from POA and indicate quickly the optimal charge weight area I am looking for. The more you shoot, the more likely you are to introduce errors from heat and barrel fouling. After all my intentions are not to test the upper limits of the rifle's accuracy such as in combat shooting where sustained accuracy is important."

Hey BLR7, I agree with you. Nothing prevents you from shooting "multiple" 3-shot groups to confirm the Load is a good one on a single Target. I do that as a "Mid-Test Verification" after selecting what appears to be my Final Hunting Load. But, shoot each 3-shot group with the "bore" in the same condition you will be hunting with.

I don't agree with leaving a bore Fouled once it is sighted in. If it needs to be Fouled to shoot accurately, then something is wrong. And leaving a bore Fouled here in the high humidity of the Southeast USA will cause "pits" in it.

BLR7: "I am preparing my loads for future hunting which rarely requires more than three shots. From my own experience I have developed optimal loads through trial and error and gotten off track because of occasional flyers due to shooting that fourth and fifth round which is often misleading."

I completely agree. "Fliers" are created by all kinds of things and can cause a person to bypass a great Load. In over 4 decades of hunting, I've never used 3 shots on any Game animal. And I believe I've only used 2 shots twice.

BLR7: "I want the confidence that comes from shooting that optimal load enough times at the range in various conditions to know that I can hit where I aim at all times."

Me too. You are on the right track.

As a Final Load verification, I really prefer to shoot a series of 1-shot groups on a single Target. By that I mean I clean the barrel after 1 shot, lightly relube the bore just as I hunt with it, let it return to ambient conditions and then shoot the next shot. It is slow, but it gives me great confidence in the Load as well as hone my shooting skills.

Since nearly every shot I've taken at Game has been a single shot, the Group resulting from a series of single shots is what interests me the most.

And if at all possible, shoot at the fartherest distance you intend to actually take a shot at the Game. Though it is fun to shoot small groups at 100yds, a lot more can be learned by shooting a bit farther out.

BLR7: "I am hoping there is an elk out there this year with my name on it and I will be ready!"

Best of luck to you!

If you let it cool down between shots, the 7mm Mag isn't that tough on barrels. I've got an old Sako (about 1978) that's been shot and carried all over-shoots as good as it ever did. Anyway, my favorite rifles are the ones with shot-out barrels. The ones I don't like, barrel life is forever. Don't worry about wearing out barrels- shoot the hell out of it and if it starts going away in 4-5000 rounds, there's a whole bunch of barrelmakers just waiting to put a new tube on it.

Most of the stuff out there about the 7mm mag being hard on barrels is a bunch of bullhockey. Unless you shoot it at least 50 times a day and let the barrel heat up until it's too hot to touch the rifle should still be shooting well for your great-grandchildren. If you do manage to shoot the barrel out of it then you've done good work, go and celebrate by putting a new barrel on it and shoot it some more. Just take your time between shots and the barrel will last several lifetimes.

Thanks BOLTMAN,
I guess rust and heat are still the leading causes
of barrel wear. I suppose longevity in a gun is
just like mileage in a car: don't let them overheat and keep them clean and lubed! I only
shoot about 80-100 rounds per month and that's mostly in the fall and winter months so I probably
won't wear out this gun any time soon. Anyway, thanks again for the info and advice! BLR7....

Barrels wear out. Hotter cartridges wear 'em out faster. Strings of rapid fire wear 'em out faster. It's usually the throat that goes first, sometimes the barrel can be set back and rechambered to extend the life.

The 7mm Rem mag isn't known for being any worse on barrels than other high intensity cartridges.

I keep a round count for some of my rifles, particularly the high volume, high accuracy rifles. A .308 factory Remington barrel is needing replacement right now at roughly 4000 rounds. I say roughly because the first owner of the gun estimated around 500 rounds through it and I've put exactly 3593 rounds through it since. Accuracy is starting to fall off. A new Krieger is on order.

A Hart .308 barrel I've got is going strong after 5000+ rounds. It started life as a .30 magnum and has been cut down and rechambered.

Another .308 Kreiger match barrel is still producing superb accuracy after 3352 rounds.

My 7mm Rem mag is doing fine, but has only 307 rounds through it, mostly slow fire. I don't routinely shoot strings of rapid fire with the magnum. When I wear out this barrel I'll order a high quality replacement. I've heard long-range prone shooters often wear out their magnum barrels in 1500 - 2500 rounds.

Most folks never wear out a hunting rifle barrel, but competition shooters routinely wear out their barrels because they go through thousands of rounds a year. If it's NRA highpower competition that may well include strings of rapid fire which heat up the barrel and contribute to throat erosion. Some varmint hunters also wear out their barrels if they do a lot of prarie dog shooting or other high volume stuff.

As far as your loads go, I don't know which powders contribute more to throat erosion. I'd shoot whatever load produces the downrange accuracy and terminal performance you want, then have the rifle rebarreled when it's time. Then you can have the action blueprinted and have a custom barrel installed, exactly to your specifications. This answer is too wordy, my apologies. Regards, Guy

I would think that you can reasonably expect 2000 to 2500 shots while maintaining essentially "as new" accuracy. After that it will likely start to fall off. Which, if you actually shoot as much as you say, will translate into about 3 years of shooting.

Using moderate loads for practice will help.

If you really want it to make it last, use cast bullets for practice. It will last nearly indefinitely with them. I can recommend Leadhead Bullets without qualification if you don't cast your own.

However, you will need to REALLY clean your barrel when shifting from cast to copper or back.

Hey BLR7, It is real nice to be able to AGREE with everything posted above. You are getting good info.

Only thing I can add is to consider Moly. It is a bit of a hassle to peen into the bullets, but for me it is worth it. I've got a rifle that I dread the day I'll have to put a new barrel on it because it likes "everything" I put in it. A rare barrel indeed. So, I got interested in Moly because of it.

I don't know if this link to Precision Shooting is still active or not, but if it is, this is the best article I've seen concerning Moly:

www.precisionshooting.com/aug98.html

It is a very long read. The part that got my attention is the amount of bullets that Norma ran through their "hot" 6.5mm with no signs of accuracy degredation.

But, keep the barrel cool and clean and it will last a long time.

Keeping the barrel from getting too hot to touch is one good way. Loading below maximum is another. You can try loads with 4895 class powder and load down for practice. Do use your magnum primers. Makes them work better/more accurate.
Don't plan on rebarreling your A-Bolt. Most barrel makers/gunsmiths refuse to rebarrel them. E

ereimus, why is that??????

Won't bore you with details but,

I've got a Rem 700 7mm Mag I've owned for 30+ years. Shoot it every hunting season whether I hunt with it or not. Don't know how many rounds been thru it, but it consistantly shoots a 3-shot 1" or less group @ 100 yds (this is with a 4X scope too).

154gr Hornady Interlock Spire Point, 62.2 (don't know why the .2) gr of IMR 4831, CCI mag primer. MIXED BRASS (go figure)! I keep the brass (about 50 rounds) trimmed and haven't had to pitch any yet because of a weak web (case stretching).

Cautionary note-

This load is safe in my rifle. Reduce this load and work up in your rifle according to pressure signs.

I have a Ruger No. 1 in 7 Mag. that I bought in 1968, and it is as accurate as the day I bought it. I fired several hundred rounds right away, developing 140, 160, and 175-grain loads for it. Since then, I have fired an average of one round per year to reaffirm its' zero, then a shot or two (NO MORE THAN TWO) each year at deer and elk. Have never used it for target shooting!!

If you manage to wear out your 7mm barrel consider youself lucky. Not many guys get to shoot that much. Sure you can accelerate the process by shooting till the barrel will burn you but responsible shooters avoid that. I always figured that if I ever wore a barrel out I must have had a lot of fun and done a pile of shooting. Mart

Using ball powders such as H870 (WC860 Surplus) is supposed to increase barrel life since they have lower flame temperatures thus causing less throat erosion. It has worked in my 7mm Rem. Mag which I have had since 1972. H870 is best with the heavier bullets such as the 160 and 175 grain. Because of the heavier weight of powder used, as compared to 4831, etc., you will feel additional recoil. My most accurate load is a Speer 175 grain Grand Slam or Mag Tip with 78 grains of H870, CCI 250 LR Magnum primer. It chronographs at 2880 fps out of my 24" Savage rifle, with 3-shot groups in the .85 to .9 inch range. As usual, work up loads for your own rifle carefully. Some ball powders can be temperature sensitive and a load you developed in 40 degree may be too hot in 90 degree weather, but I have not encountered that problem with my H870 loads.

Shoot it.

Don't let it get too hot.

If you wear out the barrel, put a new one on.

if you can afford to shoot it out (even with handloads) you can afford a new barrel.

Just don't rapid-fire it. a .22RF can shoot out a barrel, just put several hundred rounds through it per minute. If you really want to preserve your 7mmMag, just don't shoot it, fill the barrel with cosmoline and take it out and look at it once every couple years. Rifles were made to shoot, if you shoot them, they will wear. If you are fortunate enough to have enough time and money to shoot out a barrel without abusing it, count yourself lucky and rebarrel it.
Yardbird

See Frank DeHaas's book, Bolt Action Rifles for the details on the unsuitability of the A-Bolt for rebarreling. They have reliability issues as well. E