When do you just decide enough is enough and give up on a particular rifle? I have been loading now for three or four years. I load for factory rifles and I have tried five or six bullet brands and weights, powders, etc. and although I get good accuracy, I cannot see a significant difference in the accuracy of my stock rifles with reloaded ammo as opposed to factory ammo. For instance, I have a Savage Model 14 in 300 WSM. It shoots usually around 1-1.25" with the occasional .80" 100 yard group...but, it does that with any dang ammo. I'm beginning to think my bench techniques is no good or something.

One thing I have noticed is my handloads have more consistent accuracy when fired over a chrony. I weigh each charge. How much variation do you generally expect?

Inside of a couple hundred yards, you can vary powder charge by as much as a grain and have no difference in grouping in some rifles. I'd say this holds true for the larger calibers and not small ones, like a 223.

Some factory rifle simply will not show the efforts of reloading and that is that. If you enjoy loading your own, go for it. If you just assume buy the factory stuff since it shoots just as well, then go that route.

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It shoots usually around 1-1.25" with the occasional .80" 100 yard group

BTH.....In case you don't know, this is far better than most hunters take afield every year....reloads or factory makes no difference. Your accuracy is exceptional compared to most.

Factory ammo gets better each year and reloads will not always be more accurate....get used to it. Far more 1/2" groups are fired on the internet than at any sight-in range.

I reload simply to maximize the ammo.....in a combination of velocity, accuracy, economy and much greater bullet selection......not simply one thing. I also just like it! If you're shooting the bullet you want and getting acceptable velocity you like and 1-1.25" groups you're ahead of the pack and fully ready to go hunting.

No matter how good your loads are, if theres an issue with the rifle, it'll never shoot to its potential. Is it bedded? Has the trigger been worked on? Is the scope properly secured and mounted? Is the stock maybe touching the barrel anywhere? Sometimes even a simple tweek of the trigger (which if you have the accutrigger 14, can be done at home) can mean the difference between 1.25" groups and .5" groups.

Personally I realod for many reasons, accuracy (which is getting much better) MY choice of what bullet and what speed, and mostly, cost. But, I shoot a Weatherby, and I'll be damned if I pay 60$ a box for cheap vanilla bullets and near 100$ for premiums.

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For instance, I have a Savage Model 14 in 300 WSM. It shoots usually around 1-1.25" with the occasional .80" 100 yard group...but, it does that with any dang ammo.

That is an exceptional rifle. Very few will offer that kind of consistency. But they can be frustrating too. My .243 Abolt is like that. Anything 70 grains or bigger won't shoot over 1.25" but getting much better than 1" isn't happening with anything but TSXs.

LWD

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Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
No matter how good your loads are, if theres an issue with the rifle, it'll never shoot to its potential. Is it bedded? Has the trigger been worked on? Is the scope properly secured and mounted? Is the stock maybe touching the barrel anywhere? Sometimes even a simple tweek of the trigger (which if you have the accutrigger 14, can be done at home) can mean the difference between 1.25" groups and .5" groups.

Personally I realod for many reasons, accuracy (which is getting much better) MY choice of what bullet and what speed, and mostly, cost. But, I shoot a Weatherby, and I'll be damned if I pay 60$ a box for cheap vanilla bullets and near 100$ for premiums.

Point taken. I have adjusted the trigger to 3# according to my trigger pull scale. Everything else is pure factory. The barrel is floated from the factory. A dollar bill will go all the way to the front og the receiver.

I didn't start loading to gain accuracy initially. I started to gain control over what bullets I could use and not pay premium prices not to mention the cost differnce in loading magnum ammo.

Since you have a walnut stock you could bed and float the rifle but it might not tighten your groups, only offer more consistency. But it might. If you float it and they open up you can always build a pressure point back into the stock.

That said it may be performing as good as it is going to. As posted above that is far better precision than lots of rifles offer. A factory rifle that consistently shoots minute of angle is a keeper.

The previous posts all offer good ideas and maybe the rifle is just going to shoot like that. But...Have you had someone else who shoots well try it? Do you regularly shoot another gun better than this?

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Have you had someone else who shoots well try it? Do you regularly shoot another gun better than this?

This is a good point. Gun fit is often overlooked but is very important.

LWD

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Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
...I have adjusted the trigger to 3# according to my trigger pull scale. Everything else is pure factory. The barrel is floated from the factory. A dollar bill will go all the way to the front og the receiver.

That is all well and good - maybe. It might be something real simple that is easily correctable.

1. Does the scope have an Adjustable Objective and what power is it?
2. What kind of Target are you shooting?
3. Is the barrel still Free Floated after firing a group?
4. How often do you clean the Bore? 9-shots? 30-shots?
5. What are you resting the rifle on when you shoot your groups?
6. Is it possible for you to shoot at 200yds or farther?
7. Have you Benchmarked the rifle with Match Grade Bullets to see just how well it will shoot?
8. Ah yes, how many shots are you putting in a group?
9. When you are looking at the Target through the scope, can you see the Reticle moving with your heartbeat?
10. In a dark room, with the rifle unloaded, your eyes closed, and no noise(music, TV, dogs barking), dry fire it as slow as you can move the Trigger. Did you "feel" anything move at all?
11. Does the Tip of your finger touch the Trigger or the joint of your finger?
12. Are you wearing ear plugs and muffs?
13. Do you dry fire often or practice with a 22Rimfire?
14. Any chance the Sling Swivel Stud may be making contact with what you have the rifle resting across?

You will not need a chronograph for anything I recommend. In fact, it is something else to draw your attention away from being focused on your Shooting Technique and should be left at home.

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Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
When do you just decide enough is enough and give up on a particular rifle? I have been loading now for three or four years. I load for factory rifles and I have tried five or six bullet brands and weights, powders, etc. and although I get good accuracy, I cannot see a significant difference in the accuracy of my stock rifles with reloaded ammo as opposed to factory ammo. For instance, I have a Savage Model 14 in 300 WSM. It shoots usually around 1-1.25" with the occasional .80" 100 yard group...but, it does that with any dang ammo. I'm beginning to think my bench techniques is no good or something.

One thing I have noticed is my handloads have more consistent accuracy when fired over a chrony. I weigh each charge. How much variation do you generally expect?

Though you might find it hard to come up with a better handload, what I see here is that you have a roughly MOA rifle that you can feed just about anything and get decent results. That's hard to argue with. Since BR shooting is not what this rifle is about, you have a very forgiving combination that shoots just about anything. No problems that I can see.

Ken....

1. Does the scope have an Adjustable Objective and what power is it? 6-24x with adjustable parallax
2. What kind of Target are you shooting? paper target I’ve printed someone posted here about three years ago when I started…the bull is about 1†circle
3. Is the barrel still Free Floated after firing a group? Never checked…not sure I understand
4. How often do you clean the Bore? 9-shots? 30-shots? 10 shots
5. What are you resting the rifle on when you shoot your groups? Caldwell pedestal & rear bag
6. Is it possible for you to shoot at 200yds or farther? yes
7. Have you Benchmarked the rifle with Match Grade Bullets to see just how well it will shoot? I loaded some 168 grain Sierra Match bullets with similar results
8. Ah yes, how many shots are you putting in a group? 3 or sometimes 5
9. When you are looking at the Target through the scope, can you see the Reticle moving with your heartbeat? If so, I back off and rest
10. In a dark room, with the rifle unloaded, your eyes closed, and no noise(music, TV, dogs barking), dry fire it as slow as you can move the Trigger. Did you "feel" anything move at all? Have not tried…will when I can
11. Does the Tip of your finger touch the Trigger or the joint of your finger? Tip…I usually pinch the trigger with the tip and my thumb on the back of the guard
12. Are you wearing ear plugs and muffs? both
13. Do you dry fire often or practice with a 22Rimfire? no
14. Any chance the Sling Swivel Stud may be making contact with what you have the rifle resting across? The rear would be touching the bag

Thanks! I do not claim any bench knowledge. Please correct me where wrong.

I love the loading process and I know my rifle(s) are fine for hunting, but I would love to have a few that shot consistently below 1".

Have you tried loading with just a neck sizer die instead of a FL resizer? This might bump up your accuracy a bit as you are leaving the case formed to the chamber dimensions. Worth a shot, but you might still have to FL after a few firings. Case stretch isnt a huge issue with the WSM's, this is why I'll be going neck sized only once I get my 300wsm back from the smith and my 7wsm up and running.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
1. Does the scope have an Adjustable Objective and what power is it? 6-24x with adjustable parallax This is excellent. I'd encourage you to make sure the Paralax is correct by having some "Writing" somewhere on the Target. Get the Focus adjusted and then make sure when you move your head behind the Scope that the Reticle does not move off the Target Point. If it does, the Parallax needs a slight bit of adjustment.
2. What kind of Target are you shooting? paper target I’ve printed someone posted here about three years ago when I started…the bull is about 1†circle I find Circles work well for Iron Sights, but a Black Square works better when I'm shooting a Scope. I just snug the Reticle up to a corner. Depending on the Size of the Square, you can get 4 groups around the one Square.
3. Is the barrel still Free Floated after firing a group? Never checked…not sure I understand. After the barrel warms up, it might move(warp) enough to make contact with the stock. If that happens, you might be able to relieve the stock where it is touching, but that just lets the barrel Warp more. If it begins touching or gets closer along one side, I'd try upward pressure at the Tip. I realize that is not the current Fad, but a lot of mine have a bit of Tip Pressure and do just fine.
4. How often do you clean the Bore? 9-shots? 30-shots? 10 shots Excellent, I go 6-9 shots between cleaning. Some will tell you cleaning the Bore can cause the group to shift. Since I plan on Hunting with a clean Bore, that is how I want it when I practice. Looks like we share thaqt thought.
5. What are you resting the rifle on when you shoot your groups? Caldwell pedestal & rear bag Sounds fine.
6. Is it possible for you to shoot at 200yds or farther? yes Some Bullet/Rifle combinations shoot closer to MOA when you get out a bit than they do up close at 100yds. Lots of theories about Why, but it dosen't matter because it does happen on some rifles. ALoad combination which is not MOA "might" be MOA on out aways. Then a 1.5" group at 100yds doesn't mean spit unless you are shooting very tiny Deer.
7. Have you Benchmarked the rifle with Match Grade Bullets to see just how well it will shoot? I loaded some 168 grain Sierra Match bullets with similar results That is the exact Bullet I'd have tried.
8. Ah yes, how many shots are you putting in a group? 3 or sometimes 5 I prefer 3 over 5. Less barrel heat to beconcerned with.
9. When you are looking at the Target through the scope, can you see the Reticle moving with your heartbeat? If so, I back off and rest Good. Caffine, nicotine and such stuff can have a negative influence. If you are hooked on any of those, then some must be consumed to calm things down.
10. In a dark room, with the rifle unloaded, your eyes closed, and no noise(music, TV, dogs barking), dry fire it as slow as you can move the Trigger. Did you "feel" anything move at all? Have not tried…will when I can It you feel anything move, the Trigger needs a bit of work. If you can do the Stoning yourself - great. If not, let a Gun Smith Tune the Trigger for you.
11. Does the Tip of your finger touch the Trigger or the joint of your finger? Tip…I usually pinch the trigger with the tip and my thumb on the back of the guard I know some BenchRest folks do that, but it wouldn't work for me. I site in and practice with my hand gripping the stock. You might want to try it and see if that helps put the Butt Plate in your shoulder a bit more consistently. Oh yes, use the Tip of your finger
12. Are you wearing ear plugs and muffs? both Good.
13. Do you dry fire often or practice with a 22Rimfire? no Dry Firing isan excellent exercise and won't harm modern firearms (Rossi excluded and some revolvers on the old S&W design). I shoot a good bit of 22Rimfire while the barrels cool. I try to have all my Triggers release just alike, so it helps ingrain the pattern.
14. Any chance the Sling Swivel Stud may be making contact with what you have the rifle resting across? The rear would be touching the bag Depending on how you hold the Rabbit Ears, it might not hurt, or it could cause the stock to be unstable and inconsistent as it moves during recoil. See if you can move the Rear Bag so that Stud is of no concern. Even "Up" in the Bagis better than letting it rest on a Sling Stud for me.

Looks like you are doing most of it correctly.

Any chance the Recoil is just too stout for you? You could try some Down-Loads with the Hodgdon 60% of a MAX H4895 Load and see if things improve.

Recoil shouldn't be an issue, but I won't rule out the possibility.

I may be on to one thing. I shot the rifle in question today in preparation for deer season. The rifle shot a group left of center. So, I moved the dial 6 clicks to the right and fired. The shot went off the paper to the...left!! I moved the dial 6 more clicks to the right for curiosity and the group moved maybe 1/4" to the right. Cleaned the barrel and fired a shot two inches higher. By now, I'm frustrated to the point of no return. Dark was coming on and I decided to give it a rest. I was having a cup of coffee and trying to think about what could be happening. I thought of the action screw because it was loose once before. I checked and sure enough, the dang thing felt loose...I hope that is the trouble. I tightened it some...will try more shooting tomorrow. How tight should it be? I have no way of checking for sure??? Finally, how do you keep them tight if you can't put much pressure on them to begin with? This rifle has considerable recoil and I can only assume that it works loose because of the recoil. That may be why the groups have gotten consistently worse...Thanks a million.

If you are using the Redfield Base Design(two Lateral adjustment screws on the Rear Base), look to see if the "Ring" is ripping forward through those Screw Heads.

If that isn't it, it is time to swap scopes and see what happens. This could easily be most of the problem you have been fighting.

Try shooting at the corner of the Black Square. But obviously that has nothing to do with this Adjustment disaster.

It is not ready to go Hunting.

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Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
How tight should it be? I have no way of checking for sure??? Finally, how do you keep them tight if you can't put much pressure on them to begin with?

65 inch pounds.

Try the blue Locktight.

Thank you onefun! I was going to say the same thing, BLUE locktight, the stuff you can still remove if needed lol. Your scope bases should be BLT'd too.

I am ashamed to say...it was a loose rear ring!! I could have sworn I checked them. I guess it proves I am getting old and that there is a logical explanation for nearly everything. Thanks for the help guys.

Nothing to be ashamed of, it happens lol Heck when my buddy was shooting it took us several shots and at least 20 minutes of shooting to notice his entire rear scope base had cracked in half

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Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
...it was a loose rear ring!! ...

Surely it hasn't been loose the entire time you have been shooting it. Probably just shook loose over time.

But, all the Load Development is now suspect. You may have some great Grouping Loads and just don't know it yet.

Best of luck with it.

No, I am sure it has worked loose, but you never know...I will try and shoot some this afternoon...maybe those 1.25" groups will become .75"...it could happen!!

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Originally posted by Born to Hunt:
I will try and shoot some this afternoon...maybe those 1.25" groups will become .75"...it could happen!!

I've got my fingers crossed!

I have had it happen to me too..keep your chin up.

Born, good luck on your rig. One thing I would highly recommend is changing your mounts to Talley's. The are just so solid, and I have NEVER had a set work loose. A 300 WSM does generate a lot of recoil, and if you have a light weight rifle, which many 300 WSM's are built on, it makes the acceleration even faster-hammers your scope more! Having dovetail setup ringss are recommended against by a lot of folks for anything past about a 223/243 due to unreliable results with 'working loose' or flexing under recoil.

One other thing I have noticed in the 300 WSM, is that often they prefer mid to low range charges, if you are loading at mid to max ranges, I'd encourage you to try some near min charges and see what happens--if you have, then you should know already. Lastly, the WSM's were so popular at first, that a lot of barrels were made in short time frames, and I have seen a lot of them that were rough. I have firelapped the barrels on a bunch of 300 WSM's and seen FANTSASTIC improvements in accuracy...just a thought. I think if you keep tweaking, you'll get it dialed in tighter than you were thinking, a loose ring/base is a big advance!

Good shooting!