Damn,

I have been on the phone with couple of reputable gunmakers, and my general answer is not the best option and think about different actions, these can be made to work, but there are never 100% and a lot of fiddling needs to be done just to get OK feeding.

More homework is due.

Me personally, I wouldn't go for the .284. I've reloaded for some of them and they can be finicky. I don't care for rounds that have to be babyed, when there are others out there that will do the same thing easily.
Rounds that come to mind in your situation, are the .260. It has light recoil, good ballistics, and if you're looking short action, it's a good 'en.
If you're stuck on 7mm, then the suggestion to go with a 7mm-08 is a good one. It is one of those rounds that does everything well, and is very easy to shoot and reload for. It's tops in my book.
Another though is a .280. They are super performers, in a class with the .270W. They are one of the best choices for someone who likes 7mm bullets, and again are easy to reload for.
The suggestion to have another 7X57 made up sounds like good advice. If your old standby has served you well, then why not a new one to hunt with which will keep some of the memories alive when you use it?

I am not going to buy the Brno that I talked about here. It's any easy way out to get something nice if you have $1200 bucks.

It's at the Autumn Gun Works in Goshen, CT. It comes with a Leu scope and has double set triggers etc. Nice little rifle in 7mm Mauser. Chris is open from about 12 to 5 on Saturdays.

It's a light gun with about a 21" barrel.

Yeah,

I wish I had a couple of more of those actions. It was one of the best of all the military mauser actions. They need some work from a stock action to get them nice, but once it is done it is a real fine action.

The only other mausers I like better are some of the commercial Oberdorf actions, but these have price tags that are outrageous. I have run into a couple over the years and have never seen one for under $1000 that was worth having. I always have my eye open for them though, just very few and far between.

Schromf,
All in good fun, I couldn't agree with you more, but please keep using that fine old G33-40, what a fine action...

Cobra,

No a Savage would never do, I am interested in the switch barrel rifle but for this gun it would never fly, hence never get used.

I went out looking for a pre 53 Model 70 Winchester today, no luck ( again ), I did run into a around 1958 version but I didn't like the aluminum bottom metal, and the only thing I liked about the rifle was the action. It had been restocked, the original 270 barrel was in fair condition, and there were two tapped screw holes in the left side of the action that had been plugged all for $600. What a deal!
I'll keep looking. There was a 257 Roberts in a pre 64, but $1400 ? I didn't look real hard but the metal looked good but the stock was fair at best, brief look not interested.

I will run into the right action, and dropping $400 or better on this is in my range.

On the 280, definately a round in my radar, how accurate are these? I get my little extra in FPS, but accuracy and burn rate in a short tube are questions? You can winkle in my Wheaties all ya want I never eat them anyway, and I am looking for honest input, not someone telling me what I want to hear.

"It must be a 7mm, I toyed with a 6.5x284 concept and determined that it is unsuitable for a short barrel. I don't want over a 22" tube, my old mauser is a 20". I wouldn't mind a little more FPS, so I have entertained different 7's. Mag's are out, too much recoil, and don't work well in short barrls."

Your criteria seem to point directly to the .280 Rem. In addition to the increase in fps and the performance in 22-inch barrels, you can add the friendliness of the '06 case to reloading. It's a tremendously useful round that doesn't get the play that it deserves.

Why does it have to be 7mm? Why do you want a little more velocity? Is it trajectory, effect on game, winddrift or what?

To get more velocity and effect on game and not loose much at all in terms of ballistic coeficents a .308 Winchester would perform very well. Due to the modern sharp meplats available on many new bullets the diameter of a bullet does not affect it's Ci as much as the sharp point helps it.

Keep in mind that as the bore increases so does the energy and velocity produced from the same volume of powder.

The bottom line is that if I were used to a 20" barrel I would just as soon it be a .308 Win than 284 or 280.

Ruger chambers their M-77,and #1A light sporter in 7x57.

I have one of each,and love them both.

You WILL need a trigger job.

The 77 has control round feeding,and M-70 type safety.

Mike



P.S.

You might take a look at the CZ as well.

Actually it is real funny you should recomend the small ring Mexican, I have one with my smith right now. He has looked it over really close, and although he admits its a nice action, he is not crazy about working with it.

There are a couple of issues, one problem is finding a stock. I have found some wood ones but any like McMillian are a lot of work and fiddling. The second issue is the small ring has a smaller diameter than most actions so the barrel needs to be smaller than the 1.25" its slightly less than 1" which means slight custom. All of the above are just issues and all can be addressed. The bad news is parts, mine is fully functional, but when my smith started looking into this there are zero parts available. As a matter of fact he is thinking of copying and making the firing pin. He got calling around and the few guys that had these would buy just about any he made, he was thinking about making about 50. It seems that bolts on these rifles are hard to come by, something about when they were scrapped and shipped out of Mexico the Mexican govt made them seperate the bolts from the rifles for some strange reason. Anyway the crates with the rifles got to the US, but the bolts have been lost for about 35-40 years never to be found. So these have always been an issue.

I defiantely haven't ruled this action out, I was looking at using it on another project but these are old and unless they are heat treated, higher pressure rounds are not recommended. But for a 7x57 its perfect.

While I am on this subject, does anyone know when you heat treat a action what effect does that have on the stampings. My Mexican has a almost perfect crest but both my smith and I are concerned if we heat treat the action I will lose some of the sharpness and detail.

Schromf,
I've re-read your original post a couple of times and unless I've overlooked a subtle clue, the only reason you want to retire this favorite rifle is for fear of nicking the pretty stock. So why not put a synthetic stock on it for hunting the rough country, and use the pretty wood stock the rest of the time? I say keep hunting with your old friend.
Jerry/AK

"SHOCK"

While an entirely practicle idea, it has the same appeal as retouching the Mona Lisa to be more like modern art.

Oh just thinking about it has my stomach in a knot.

No I would just go and get a new Remington model 7 in a 7mm-08 before I did that.

Why in the world would anyone retire an old rifle like that, that is a disgrace, like being put out to pasture, I would never refinish one of my custom rifles as every dent and scratch is a memory...Beauty goes beyond looks...

Your turning your back on an old friend, let it grow old with you...it served you well and will continue to do so..I sure hope my kids don't decide to retire me to the TV set..

If you just want another gun, then get one but cut the BS....

Allen,

Interesting and what you say makes a lot of sense. I think I need to get my mikes out and an action and check this out. Now it does bring up another question though, what have Remington and Winchester done on the new short mags that are based on the shortened Jefferys case? I thought the Remington was just a small action opened up on the rails. I am not even considering a small action Remington if I do this I just am curious as to what the fix was on these new cartridges. I would think that other than the mag bolt face this actions would be pretty close for a 284.

Which Sako action? Is it the L-61? I am headed to look at the Forbes rifles after this post.

This thread illustrates the redundancy of cartridges available in the US. This decision would be simple anywhere else in the world.

7x64 on a standard 98 mauser.

Atkinson,

No an excuse is why I want to build a 404 Jeffreys, knowing I will probably ever hunt Africa, and my best shot is a Brownie hunt in Alaska. I have a perfectly good 375 H&H for that and the only real justification is the is an empty slot in my rifle rack that something bigger than a 375 medium bore should fill.

My opinion on 20" vrs 22" barrels is I notice it, add another 2" to 24" put me in an alder thicket and the barrel seems to magically grow to 4".

Your right a custom rifle is probably where this will end up. I just can't seem to get a warm fuzzy on any of the new production stuff. Even if I found something I like in a new rifle I will true the action and put a Krieger tube on it.
I like a heavier contour barrel than most of the factory guns are using and a #4-5 is whats planned.

Your right I am leaning to a 284, I haven't heard a valid reason though to go a 284 over the 280. I would think that the 284 would be slightly more accurate if handloaded, but I haven't any data to back it up. Just to put a hard data point down my ol 7x57 is getting about .65-.75 MOA with 140gr Noslers, I certainly don't want anything less. I would like to get into the solid .5-.6 range, but that might be tough in the action types I favor, its a goal not set in concrete.

I am not a big fan of tang safeties, not a show stopper, if I decide to us a Sako action though it is what it is.

I did see a nice Belgium Browning Safari grade yesterday, chambered in a 300 Win mag. If it was an non magnum bolt face I would have jumped on it.

I don't have any illusions of finding a factory 284 bolt rifle, they are way too rare, very few were made and even the old Ruger 77's are impossible to find. Lady luck could smile on me, but I doubt it, I have been looking for 8-10 months pretty hard. I have left my options open on this and actually kept my eye open for a 280, I haven't seen one of these that excites me either.

If I get a composite stock I will probably just do a Remington 700, a long action with a stiff barrel, and a McMillian stock would make this simple. I know a 280 would be a snap, and I am sure my smith and I could figure out how to get the 284 to feed right. parts are easy to find and i am not going to croak over every scratch and ding.

I saw a beautiful Browning BBR at the last gun show in .284. I passed it up, because I'm not enamored with the round, as I said before.
The .280 is superbly accurate, carrying it's heatige from the .270 and 30/06. It is one of those rounds that does everything well, without a hassle. I can't believe that the .284 is more accurate, but like you, I have no data to back it up, except to say that, in the guns I've reloaded for the .284 couldn't hold a candle to the .280. I admit to being prejudiced, as the .280 is one of my all time favorites, along it's ballistic twin and sister the .270. I also love 7mm bullets too.

If you decide to build and like Mausers, you might consider a Mexican Mauser (small ring, intermediate length). Would be dandy for a 7x57, 7x57AI, 7-08, 284, 260, 6.5x55, etc. If you want more power, a 280 or 280AI on a standard length/small ring (like a Polish) would do.

I shoot both the 7-08 and .284. I also collect factory chambered rifles in .284.
I've noted that you don't like tang safeties. You want a 20" barrel. You're still coming to terms with yourself regarding composite stocks. I get the impression that your focused on both the .284 Win and .280 Rem. but favor the .284 a little more.
You definitely are in a quandary.
My opinion is a 20" barrel isn't an efficient length for either the 284 or 280. With a 20" barrel I'd recommend either another 7x57 or the 7-08. My go to gun is a Browning Micro Medallion in 7-08 (20" barrel), with cammo bow tape all over to cover the shiny surfaces and a slip on recoil pad to extend the pull.
I'm not sure why you are shying away from the 7-08. It has similar trajectory with the 7x57 so you wouldn't have to rethink that factor when using the new one rifle verses your ol' buddy.
If you really want a 284 or 280 I suggest you accept a 22" barrel. There's really nothing wrong or negative about the extra 2 inches and it will help facilitate that extra 100 fps your striving for. I can't figure why the extra 100 fps means that much, you apparently do just fine without it with your ol' freind.
I also get the impression that you really want a custom rifle as opposed to one factory chambered. If you could find one, I'm still looking for one in great condition, a Browning Safari would be the closest factory rifle I can think of that you would find acceptable. There was one a while back on one of the web auction sights that had pitting, would've made for a good shooter. ULA is another option, some still show up now and again.
I agree with you regarding a long or medium action for the .284 so that the bullet can be seated out further than would be possible with a short action. But then you may as well get the .280 Rem. and avoid the higher brass and die costs.
I really believe it might be better for you to compromise and accept either a 7x57 or 7-08 in a 20 inch barrel or a .280 Rem in a 22 inch barrel.
I'm thinking out loud.
Bill

Another set of ignorant, ready-shoot-aim comments that display a complete lack of familiarity with the .284 Win. case.

The .284 does not feed properly out of a .308 Win.-size magazine box because it is a fatter case than the .308 with a rebated rim. Rifles that DO feed .284 cases properly include the old Belgian-made Browning Safaris built on round-top Sako actions with properly-dimensioned magazine boxes made specifically for the cartridge, those few Browning A-Bolts in .284 Win. with proper magazine boxes, and Melvin Forbes ULR Model 20s in .284 Win., which also have proper boxes.

Cramming .284 cases into a .30-06 box and whittling on the feed rails is NOT the answer. This is not a magazine length problem, it's a WIDTH problem, particularly at the rear of the box. It's amater of proper mathematical dimensions -- not cut-and-try guesswork.

Melvin Forbes of Ultralight Arms will back up this point, but the .284 Win. case is a low-production item for Winchester. The forming dies are not replaced as regulalry as, say .270 Win. dies. Therefore there are more inconsistencies with various lots of .284 Win. brass. Meliv recommends neck turing to get the most accuracy potential out of this case, and just about every experience .284 Win. shooter I know neckturns this case.

AD

If you like the old FN Mausers (Browning) and can afford $1200, I'd check out this one:

Browning Safari 284

It's an origninal Browning Safari in .284 being auctioned but notice it has rust on the cross-bolt (I think that's what it is). I've been watching it but just can't justify it for myself, too many other priorities.

If you buy it, could I have first shot at that Mexican Mauser

A couple of points I would have to disagree on are, 1) if the 284 win is so finicky they why is it so popular with the benchrest fraternity. And 2) making a 284 feed in a mauser action would be no more difficult than making a magnum case feed, actually it should be considerably easier and plenty magnums have been succesfully built on the venerable M-98.

So heres a suggestion, an M-48 Yugo action rebarreled for 284 and the hinged floorplate from a small ring Mauser will fit it. That is one possible base and the rest of the details are virtually unlimited.

I know a local stockmaker who just loves the 284 and it fits in well with the short fat line of thinking.

With that said, the 7X57 AI and the 280 AI also deserve honorable mention. The latter being able to gain 100 fs over the 7X57 with even bad reloads and for your sons it will shoot factory loads untill they get on the reloading bandwagon.

I also am a fan of the 7x57 and was going to suggest a 7mm/08 but it is very similar to the 7x57, not much difference at all. You might give some thought to the 6.5x55. Like the 7x57 it's an oldtimer, but in a modern bolt action rifle packs quite a wallop. I got my Canada moose last year with a 6.5x55 and a 160gr. SPSP. You can load everythng from 85 to 160grs. That's quite a wide range, and the caliber is inherently accurate. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Good luck with your endeavor.
Bill

6.5x55 just bought one a few months ago, wouldn't mind another but I would be real picky on the rifle, or I would get an old Swede.

Well I did some serious thinking on this over the weekend, and Ray even your crusty advice I listened to. I am not going to replace the ol 7x57, just isn't going to happen for short of $3-4000 ( no mine's not worth that much I wish, but it would cost that much to reproduce it in a diff caliber ). I am just going to fund another and see where it goes from there. I settled some details, I am going to build a Remington 700, change out the bolt shroud to a three position safety, and put steel bottom metal on it. I already knew I was using a Krieger barrel, but I think I will order it long, I can always shorten it, but its real difficult to stretch them. Twist is a detail I need to sort out, but I always figure out what bullets I plan on shooting and buy my barrels to match the heaviest. I already have a nice walnut stock for it, so I have a finishing and checkering project in mind, I like the idea of getting a composite stock and think I will go a McMillian M40A1 or a Varmint so I can swap if I want.

I talked with my smith today specifically about magazines on the Rem 700. Allen are you sure that the box isn't big enough? My smith and I think they are ( long action ) but the follower needs to be changed. We are thinking we might lose 1 round unless I go to a deep box, and might need to get a follower blank and make it fit the 284 case. If you have some data on this I am listening.

Extractor is an unknown at this moment, I will be hunting next month with my smith and we will have time to talk over a few details in person instead of long distance. Thoughts are a Sako extractor, but not decided at all.

I have one other call to make before I order the Remington, and I wanted to check BAT machine, they are just down the road when I am home and I think they make a magazine version, if not I found new Remingtons at a very good price and will order it this weekend.

I am still interested in details from people who have traveled this road before.

Incidently, besides all the information I got in this thread which I noted, what made my mind up is look at the reloading page on the main page, check out the group sizes with the 284, then check the rest of the 7mm's. There are other caliber's listed that get close or maybe even beat it in one load. But none had as many tight groups consistantly as that Hall action 284, not the 7mm-08 and not the 280AI. I know individual rifle comes into play but across the reloading band a .5 MOA group is large and .1 MOA is possible, with different powders and diffenent bullets. Which screams to me NOT FUSSY.

I will be watching the details on the build on this one and its not even close to my first custom, so I know what I am getting into. Actually unless I am real lucky, I might be using my 7x57 next year again. I have never had much luck getting one done in less than that.