Hi,
My nephew is getting interested in hunting and will be getting his hunter's safety certification in the next couple of months.

Just wondering what thoughts are on a 30/30 for whitetail for a younger hunter. I don't expect he'll be hunting himself for game this November at all, but I'd like to get him practicing with centerfire. He'll be 14 and has fired 22 rifles a lot the last couple of years.

I was thinking maybe start with some light 110 gr. loads and seeing how that goes with recoil and familiarity, move on from there.

Rifles I have are a Model 94 and a Savage 340. The 340 has been in our family for generations, so I'm leaning that way. The 94 is pre-64 so no safety.

Also have a Savage 1899H in 303 that's an option and length of pull is short. He's been using open sights, and shots where we hunt are less than 50 yds. At 15, my first centerfire on a 760 Gamemaster 30-06 with a metal buttplate and that was a bit much for me, ha.

Hoping for some advice from others that were in the same boat...

I would go with the Savage 340. This way you/he could go with either Iron sights or a scope without messing up the PRE 64 Win.
I have a Savage 340 .30-30 and it is Very Accurate! 125 gr. Sierras would be fine but being magazine fed you have to watch OAL.

Hip

Thanks, Hipshoot.

The 340 is from my father's side of the family and has some good stories to go with it. I've done some load testing for it already, but with standard 30-30 loads.

Thinking more about it, a 94 also takes some strength to cycle the action with the hammer down (how you actually use it!). It's not something a young shooter should struggle with.

The 340 has a Dockendorff rear sight that pulls up nicely. I'm wanting him to stick with open sights. The 1899 and 340 have some extra bullet choices for sure.

I have 170 gr. Core Lokts, 150 gr. Hornady RN, and 160 gr. FTX to work up field loads I'm working on that he could use eventually.

110 gr. loads I'm curious about as they could be good for practice and getting into centerfire. Might be a good year/summer just plinking and cycling the 340 at targets then go to field loads.

the 340 is a good cast bullet rifle too.

just start low and work the kid up.
a deer doesn't need a 300 win mag at 50yds.

he could use a 125-130gr bullet [gold-dot, nosler] at 2,000 fps. with minimal recoil for hunting if he can't handle the recoil.

Of course the Win 94 has a safety! Put the hammer on half cock. Train with your equipment. My first rifle was a Win 94 in 1966; made in 1960 and I still have it.
Now, if you want a scope, use the 340. And make him practice. If he is 14, recoil of a 30-30 won't hurt him.

Yes! Those light pointy bullets add a whole new chapter to '30-30'!

Be careful of the recoil. Most 30-30’s have solid butt plates and unusual comb height if you scope it. Make sure the stock has a decent recoil pad and the correct length of pull.

I shot 110 grainers in my 30-06 and could not tell any difference in 150 grain bullets. Go with .308 about same recoil but much better performance.

I also got nice accuracy from the Nosler 125-grain BT in a Savage 340. The neat thing about them is they are so homely they are cool -- and they just plain work.

Thanks all for the advice. It will probably be the 340 to start and go from there. Certainly not the flashiest rifle around, but that's OK.

Ok, you can easily load pointed bullets into a 94, for two shots; plenty for a hunter. That is unnecessary though, because round nose bullets shoot fine to 150 yards, which is as far as you need to be shooting a 30-30 anyway. Do not use 110 grain bullets for deer.
As for scoping and altering a 94 with a recoil pad; if you have a pre 64; DON'T do it! You immediately cut the value in half.
Any 14 year old boy can handle it.
Flashy? A Win 94 is the coolest rifle in the deer woods and in 1966, no one used flashy bolt actions. Marlins and Winchesters. Not in the hills. A neighbor had a 340; I remember he shot a swarm of bees out of a tall tree with it. City kids; look it up. Swarm of honey bees.

dpcd,
Don't worry, no intention of altering the 94. I'm in agreement on the 94 being a cool, classic woods rifle. The 340 is the one that's not fancy/flashy. The 110s were an idea for some cheap practice and familiarization. I'll just have to see which one he feels most comfortable with.

If 50 yards is your normal hunting range then a 30-30 would be fine. Ive owned a few 30-30s and four models of lever actions, 1886, 94, 336 and blr. I would highly recommend the Marlin 336 as long as it’s not a Remlin, of which I've owned a couple. Avoid the remlins at all costs.

That's how my dad started me out in 1958 after a few years with a .22 coey.

I see two draw backs on a Model 94, 30-30.
1. The stock configuration of a Model 94,30-30 has lots of drop causing it to come up and slap beginners in the cheek.
2. It's kind of a lame cartridge. (I know that it is a hanging offence to say so.)

We started our grandson out with a single shot, break-open 30-30 with CEB Raptor tipped bullets for small plains game in Africa. (There is something about a single shot that focuses the mind.)

I made a straight stock that fitted him. The choice of bullets make a huge difference too. With a single shot you can use any bullet.(If a beginner wounds his first animal and it takes while to die, it might sour him/her.)

For our next beginner it will be a break open single shot in something like a CVA 308 or 30-06 with a straight stock that fits. You can down load a .308 or a .30-06 or put a muzzle break on it and they won't soon outgrow it. ( Every young shooter should use electronic ear protection. I never did and now I am deaf as a post.)

A rifle with an exposed hammer is a very safe rifle, and it's kinda cool.

You have lots to look forward to! Brian

I guess I am a bit of a traditionalist.

If the Savage 340 is a family gun with history, that is what I would start him with.

You can come up with all kinds of advantages to each rifle, but the family history makes it kind of easy.

Starting out with light bullet low velocity bullets until he's comfortable with the rifle makes sense... but I don't think that a .30-30 with standard bullets is that big a kicker anyhow and if he's comfortable with the rimfire, stepping up is probably something he will want to do. No flies on the .30-30 as a game gun in the continental US.

I am assuming he's 13, since that is the age for hunter safety in MN. Unless he's really on the small side, the .30-30 should be tolerable. I know lots of kids here who start out with 20 or 12 ga shotguns as first guns, and they kick significantly more than a .30-30.

My only concern with hammer guns is that kids often have issues cocking the hammer themselves- seen that as a problem on the single shot break open shotguns regularly.

I think you are wise starting him out with iron sights first. Its a lot easier to translate iron sight fundamentals to scopes than vice versa.

I have a Marlin 336 in 30-30 that I shoot with the 150 grain TSXs. The charge is 25.5 grains of LeverEvolution. Very mild recoiling load 2400 FPS. Kills deer quite well. Very accurate. I would not hesitate to put that rifle and load into the hands of any new shooter. I tested those bullets down to 1100 FPS and got ad copy expansion.

I'd go with the bolt action Savage 340, but would suggest you improve it by mounting a decent scope on it.

I think it would be far more user friendly for a beginner.

The .30-30 should not be too hard for him to handle in that rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I'd go with the bolt action Savage 340, but would suggest you improve it by mounting a decent scope on it.

I think it would be far more user friendly for a beginner.

The .30-30 should not be too hard for him to handle in that rifle.

This ^^^^^^

I have a Savage 340 and it's a pretty nice handling rifle. I like using the Sierra 125gr game king with it. For factory loads the Leverevolution actually shot really nice out of the rifle.

If recoil is a concern then you could always use either IMR or Hodgdon 4895 and reduce the charge. I do this with my son's 308Win. I have my brother inlaw to thank for making my son recoil shy when he thought it would be funny to put a small kind behind a 300WM.
He set me back quite a bit by doing that. Anyways with the308 and 110gr Vmax with about 31-32grs of 4895, my son can shoot his rifle with little to no recoil. About as much as an AR produces. He has put about a 100rds through his rifle now and has gotten rid of the flinch and fear of shooting a centerfire rifle.

Yes, Palladin8, H4895 is good for reduced loads. Hodgdon advertise that, where it is listed for the calibre concerned, you can reduce the charge to 60% of the maximum shown. I have used that formula in my 270WSM with no problems and loads at various levels above that have all been quite accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Be careful of the recoil. Most 30-30’s have solid butt plates and unusual comb height if you scope it. Make sure the stock has a decent recoil pad and the correct length of pull.

I'm a big fan of the 30-30. I have a Marlin 336C that's been in the family forever (iron sights). For a 200 yard deer or 100 yard black bear gun it has plenty of power. You might want to think about buying you child a 243 bolt action rifle and put a scope and a decelerator recoil pad on it. Factory CoreLokt 85g loads are plenty for deer and will kick less and shoot flatter than a 30-30.

When I was a young thing in the late 50’s, my first deer gun was a Sears Ranger bolt action .410 shotgun single shot. I used 3” slugs, which I still have a couple or more left of those paper hull cartridges. It would be many years later before I got a 30-30 Western Auto lever action. Still have the .410.

Every farm or cowboy family starts their kids with a pre 64 30-30, its unamerican to not do so. I started with same in a 25-35, killed deer and elk with it, used properly it works as well as any other gun or caliber. Safety is half cock.

I started with a Marlin 336C in 30-30 and still consider my first Whitetail Doe one of my top trophies. I also started a son, six grandsons, two great grandsons with it. Iron sights at first then a 3X scope now and it will start more future hunters in our family. Good Shooting.

Dear O.P.
30-30 is a fine choice for 50 to 100 yards with proper shot placement.
More importantly, let him handle a few different rifles and close his eyes and then shoulder the rifle to see which one gets him the best view through the scope or sights. Practice practice. My first rifle was a metal butt plate 7.65 Mauser. 4 shots to zero, black and blue for 5 days.

For comparison with similar weight bullets around 150 grains-

.30-30 1,900 ft lbs.
.303 Brit 2,550
7.65 Mauser 2,550
.308 Win 2,650

The 30-30 sighted in 3" high at 100 yards is on at 150 and a top of the back hold at 300 is a body shot. I witnessed on our high desert ranches many 250 to 300 yard kills, all cowboys not gunsmiths or bankers, they just didnt know better!

Gees Ray. Didn't that stretch the barrel?

Well he did say 50 yard shots. But, I get your point Mr. Atkinson.

The problem is nobody has shot their 30-30 at 300 yd. sighted in 3" high at 100 and give it a try..Mostly what you get on is passed on gun scribe or expert quotes on the old girl, and hogwash about a gun thats killed more deer and elk than all the other calibers combined..then they say "oh if your a good shot and can place the shot perfectly it works!" Does that mean you can gut shoot an elk with a 375? and thats OK?

I grew up in an elk camp of ranchers and cowboys all used 94 carbines in 30-30 with one 30-40 and another 300 Savage and later a 250 SAvage, and each of us kids all used the 25-35. I dont recall ever a wounded elk in Colorado getting away and only one deer on our ranch that I got too excited but that happens with any caliber or bad shooting...I wounded another deer on our ranch but we found him the following day and he was not spoiled..that was with a 22 Hornet..I wounded a buffalo in later years that SAeed found the following day, and it was eaten by Lions, both shots were in the heart lung area and crossed one another, one shot by me and one by PH Richard. a 470 and a 375 IMP. It ruins a hunt to wound but anyone that hunts enough will have to deal with it sooner or later/

but even those old timers eventually went to the 30-06, 270 , 30-40 and 300 Savage. Guess they read too much of the BS king named Elmer.