i found this article on Rifleshooter, where Boddington claims that the .260 Rem, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, 7x57, .30-06 etc. are too slow for a sheep rifle.

quote:

A fast, accurate .25 probably is ideal for small sheep like mouflon, and just last week I used a borrowed .257 Weatherby to take a chamois in Spain's Pyrenees. But for the full run of mountain game, I think the right choices start with fast 6.5mms.

All are rare in North America today, but I'm thinking of cartridges like the .264 Winchester Magnum, the wildcat 6.5-06 and the European 6.5x68. Then come the .270s: .270 Winchester, .270 Weatherby, .270 WSM. Then come the fast 7s. I love the 7x57 and 7mm-08 in proper applications, but here I'm thinking about the .280 Remington as the baseline and then all the 7mm magnums--short, long, belted or unbelted. Then come the .30s. Although the .30-06 is probably my all-time-favorite cartridge, I'd leave that out and start with the short magnums and go all the way up.

any sheep hunters here that disagree?


the full article:
http://www.rifleshootermag.com...ep_061305/index.html

I guess that explains why I never read any of his stuff..

Don

I'm not a sheep hunter. Boddington has taken many sheep. Maybe he's used a .30-06, maybe not.

Considering the terrain of steep hills and long valleys, anything from a .257 through a .308 bullet would suffice.

But if I'm going on a sheep hunt (and that would be a hunt of a lifetime for me) where shots could be anywhere between 100-400 yards (going uphill & downhill), I would feel more comfortable shooting a magnum in a lightweight rifle, and I'm not a fan of magnums.

Now if someone feels comfortable shooting a sheep at 350 yards downhill with a .30-06, good for you! I envy that person and I certainly hope that one day I'm in that situation. For the record, I'm a huge fan of the .30-06. It would not be my 1st choice for sheep hunting.

Well in Europe your guide won't let you shoot over 250m on chamois and mouflon anyhow so I think it's a bit pointless.

Also from my very limited experience it's not too difficult to find another animal closer in.

I've been aon a few-30-06 would work great, as would 7mm-08 and a buch of others on the list. For those concerned about bears, a 30-06 with good bullets would handle a grizzly encounter quite well.

Was Jack O'Connor wrong? I did shoot my Dall with a .300WM, but only carried that rifle as a compromise because I thought I might have a shot at a grizzly. The best gun is always the one you have confidence in!

confidence is the key
as long as the bullet is adequate for the task it all comes down to putting the bullet where it belongs

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Well in Europe your guide won't let you shoot over 250m on chamois and mouflon anyhow so I think it's a bit pointless.

Also from my very limited experience it's not too difficult to find another animal closer in.

really?
on one site(Norwegian hunting agency), they say 250-350m is not uncommon on mouflon in Croatia.

I've been a sheep hunter for over 25 years.
I've hunted all the North American sheep multiple times
Boddington is great, he really is my favorite, I enjoy all his writing. I've talked to him several times and I really don't know a more experienced or knowledgable hunter of all things.
He needs material and subject matter to write about and when you've published as much as he has, you need to look hard for any subject. This one is a filler story. Sure if you are hunting a specific area for a specific animal you could tayler your rifle and cartridge to that animal. Most true sheep hunters use one rifle for all their sheep, one there comfortable and confident with.
In 1982 when I first moved to Alaska and started sheep hunting I bought a Brown Precsion 300WM for all my mountain hunting. Even though I own 60 guns, this is still the one I ALWAYS grab for any mountain hunting. It's powerful enough to handle the bears I always run into in the mountains, can buck the wind, shoot at extreme distance, heart shot a chamois this summer at 436 yard as it was running and most important gives me the confidence I need to take that shot. It was not a lucky shot, I knew I could make that shot with that rifle because I had many times before.
None of the calibers mentioned in that article are wrong, any of them will kill sheep, some will work better in certain conditions than others. The best sheep caliber is the one YOU have confidence in. 30/30 win. has killed more sheep than any other caliber on earth.

I was born in, have lived and bushwhacked in Grizzly-Sheep country for all of my 62+ years and havce hunted mountain game for 45 years.

Craig Boddington is always worth reading and impresses me as a hell of a nice guy, like John Barsness and a few other gun scribes. I prefer a .270Win. or .280Rem. for alpine hunting and am not a huge .300 Maggie fan, but, love .338s, 9.3s and the .375H&H.

These suggestions seem quite reasonable to me and most of the really successful sheep hunters I have known here use(d) such standard cartridges. My "best" sheep rifle is a P-64 Fwt.-.270W. in a Micky Hunter's Edge Compact with blind mag. and Talleys with a Zeiss 3x9 and auxiliary peep. Shoots 150NPs at 2900 into .5" at 100, what more could you want?

I don't "disagree" per se, I just don't totally agree. I think a hunter with a measured confidence in their rifle and abilities with it would do just fine with any of the "slower" rounds (.308 case and up), provided they can compensate for a slightly more curvaceous trajectory and more wind drift in often difficult terrain under often difficult conditions.

That being said, a .257 Weatherby will smack the ever-living-crap out of any sheep at any reasonable range and I would likely start (and finish) my choice in cartridges right there, maybe moving up through the .264 to .308 magnums (short, regular, and ultra) and stout-loaded '06 variants if I had one as accurate as my Weatherby.

I'd probably carry a .338 RUM or .340 Weatherby in big bear country though.

When your after Sheep you should always think your shot is going to be a Long Long one.. Then there's Mother Nature to contend with .. Wind Etc.. That's why I shoot 7mm Rem.Mag ..
Time of Flight is of Great Importance... The less Mother Nature and Newton have to say about things the better it's going to be..
AK

Boddington at one time also stated that a 270 Win was not enough gun for elk. My friends and I could load up a couple of flat beds with dead elk that would disagree with him on that one.

Long range shooting with modern rifles is more a function or YOUR ability not the rifle. It will do you little good to carry a rifle with lots of KE at 500 yards if you can't actually hit the broad side of a brick sh*thouse with it.

My old Ruger ultra light in 270 Win and 7.5 pounds ready to go is a hell of a lot more fun to shoot than my 9.3x62 at 8 pounds ready to go; sooo, guess which one I actually practice more with...Shoot the heaviest caliber you can really shoot ACCURATELY has always been great advice.

Boddington's touting the better antelope calibers for sheep, and it's not difficult to accept what he's saying. We shouldn't accept this opinion to the exclusion of other possibilities, though.

A further consideration is that anything written in a magazine is an infomercial and should be recognized as such. Ever seen anything in a magazine that is negative about Kimber? Ever seen anybody on the 'net alluding to it being a crapshoot as to whether you get a good one?

I enjoy Boddington's writings and appreciate his experiences. I also have him to thank for my understanding of elevation correction. A careless statement in an article of his led me to analyzing the effect from two perspectives: force of gravity and compression of target picture. Cosines, anyone?

Hard to argue with CB's recommendations for mountain hunting of sheep or any other medium game.

120-140 grains of bullet at 3,400-3,200 fps muzzle velocity is pretty hard to beat for that kind of thing!

Boddington serves a single, selective purpose. He is a salesman for guns, hunts and equipment. While his OPINION is spread over the televisions, magazines etc, don't fall for his BS. Any of the ctgs you point out in your original post with the proper bullet will send a sheep for a dirt nap right now. When you read use common knowledge realizing these are all high powered rifles. Just more media hype directed at YOUR pocketbook!!

Simply sounds to me like he is stating that there are better choices, and he is absolutely correct.

Craig is a gun nut of the highest order. He is always going to be looking for the perfect combo for every situation. That doesn't mean that nothing else will work, as I am sure he will freely admit. Who wants to hear that the 30-06 worked again for the umpteen millionth time anyway.

quote:

Who wants to hear that the 30-06 worked again for the umpteen millionth time anyway.

Yeah you don't sell magazine articles selling the virtues of a tried and true 30/06.
On the other hand my Bighorn Sheep and Mountain Goat made no complaints about the 30/06 I used on them.

Sheep hunting can be a very expensive proposition and if I'm shelling out the cash for the hunt then I'm taking the best sheep rifle I can find.

quote:

i found this article on Rifleshooter, where Boddington claims that the .260 Rem, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, 7x57, .30-06 etc. are too slow for a sheep rifle.

I agree....while any of them will likely do the job, none of them are on my list for this hunt! If I got the 15 large for the hunt, I got the cash for the right gun!

I'm probably going to check out a 7mm Remington Magnum or STW for this job.

Needed?.....probably not.....but better to have it and not need it!

oh...i didn't know you had to be a millionaire to go sheep hunting in the US.

one of my goals is to bag both mouflon and chamois before i die.
other sheep species would probably be fun, but not if costs 15000$

i didn't intend this to be a 'what should i get' thread, but more to see if anybody have had luck with the moderate 6.5mm - .30" cartridges

I agree with Boddington.

A single shot 6.5x68 in a Kiplauf would kick a lot of ass as a sheep rifle!

D99, ya gots it about right,
dont need alot of bullet, better alot of speed to reduce drop & time of flight.
A light Boltaction in 25wsm,264wsm pushing a sharp +/-100gn monometal seems near ideal.
I recall Barsness decking a Pronghorn at 400yd with a simple .257bob-100np-3250mv

I could hunt sheep the rest of my life with a 30-06 and be happy with what i'm carrying...

I shot this sheep at 350 yards, down hill, and i could have killed it with anything from a 270, 280, 30-06 or any magnum, and it wouldn't be any deader...



These days it seems most hunters are always trying to buy a bigger faster gun to make up for there lack of practise with what they already have... I see that as sad...

The sheep rifle i built for myself is a Rem. 700, Douglas featherweight bbl, chambered for 280 Rem... It's put a lot of meat in the pot for me...

DM

Whilst in Mongolia, all the Sheep we saw were at long rangers on bald hills with high wind.
Would be happy with a 300mag of some description.

Another really nice sheep rifle would be a 257 Weatherby!

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen:
oh...i didn't know you had to be a millionaire to go sheep hunting in the US.

one of my goals is to bag both mouflon and chamois before i die.
other sheep species would probably be fun, but not if costs 15000$

i didn't intend this to be a 'what should i get' thread, but more to see if anybody have had luck with the moderate 6.5mm - .30" cartridges

I have a friend that posts here that went to Alaska sheep hunting in the 1980's....it cost him $11,000 at that time.

Do some research and see what the "fare" is.

Further it is probably the most physically demanding hunt you can find! Not for the timid and out of shape.

Inside of 400 yards, I didn't see one cartridge that wouldn't kill any sheep.

That said, I do favor flat and fast. 270 is my favorite.

But, I'd shoot any sheep at 400 yards with a 6.5x284 and 140 gr bullet.

quote:

Kimber? Ever seen anybody on the 'net alluding to it being a crapshoot as to whether you get a good one?

Actually, on the net I have seen it quite a bit.

I shoot everything from a .22 to a .416 Rigby regularly. I have hunted extensively with them all. Without a doubt I would pick the .270 WSM for my sheep rifle. A 130 grain North Fork bullet at 3455 fps is about as flat as you can get with a tough bullet with that much heft. Good shooting.

I've got a pal who has hunted all over the world for mountain game. He thought a 257 Weatherby was perfect till he tried a 7 STW. He feels it is better in the wind and has more punch. His gun is on a Mauser action built by Bansner.

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen:
oh...i didn't know you had to be a millionaire to go sheep hunting in the US.

one of my goals is to bag both mouflon and chamois before i die.
other sheep species would probably be fun, but not if costs 15000$

i didn't intend this to be a 'what should i get' thread, but more to see if anybody have had luck with the moderate 6.5mm - .30" cartridges

Yes you need to have money to hunt out of state in the U.S.A. for anything. As far as sheep and goats.....you have to have a BUNCH of money to hunt them out of state or resident.

Vapo said sheep hunting is physicaly demanding....if you spend some time above the treeline say around 12000+ ft in Colorado you will have GREAT respect for sheep/goat hunters. I sure do.

God made sheep and deer so we would have something to hunt with the .270.

If the area you are hunting is swarming with bears a 30:06 with super 165's or decent 180's would be my minimum (a very good one). A 300 of some sort will allow for very long shots easier than the old '06, but at the cost of increased recoil. The number of guys I know who rue the day they purchased a 6 pound 300 is a fair sized list. I despise muzzle breaks, but they are effective on flyweight rifles. I just won't hunt with people who use them, or use them myself.

Just my .02 dollars worth.

Hey Ted
My Sheep hunt cost me about $600 including the tag and all my scouting gas money. My goat hunt was a bit cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Hey Ted
My Sheep hunt cost me about $600 including the tag and all my scouting gas money. My goat hunt was a bit cheaper.

Man, Snell gas money just to get there and back will cost me that....you've got it made my friend.

Well I just need to draw more tags
I've been trying to draw a Moose in Colorado since 1986! and no luck. Been trying to draw a Desert Sheep in Colorado since 1997, no luck.
But I can't complain I did draw my Bighorn Sheep and Goat and did well at that.

A number of old hunters took the grand slam of sheep using nothing but the .30/'06.......

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Hey Ted
My Sheep hunt cost me about $600 including the tag and all my scouting gas money. My goat hunt was a bit cheaper.

Man, Snell gas money just to get there and back will cost me that....you've got it made my friend.

It's all about choices. You choose to live in Missouri, he chooses to live in Colorado. As a resident you have zero chance of getting a bighorn, goat, moose, elk, mule deer, pronghorn, javelina, coues deer, brown bear, bison, or muskox in Missouri.

You have probably have the ability to kill a whitetail or 3 every year. I can not say with any great certainty that you would get drawn for a big game animal every year if you lived in the much of the west. As for even residents there are fewer over the counter tags.