Layne Simpson tested on in a Hart barreled Sako. No accuracy given but I think he was impressed by the 'tone' of the article.

He took an elk just over 300 yards which is about max in my mind for that set up.

Factory loads Federal provided shot about 2700 w/185 Barnes and 2550 with 210's. I think Federal could get that 210 to 2600 or just over if they want, we will have to wait for what specs they load 'production run ammo' and what he shot may be left as is.

200's shot 2600 plus easily with reloads which is in my mind a good deer load.

Also, Layne put some 225's through it at 2400.

Nothing impressive or better than other rounds as well all expected, but I believe it offers a balance of solid killing power with the proven dependability of 338 bullets, with moderate recoil.

Now if only the factory's offered 'light loads' in rounds like the 338 mags, one could do well for short/moderate range deer if a non-reloader w/o the recoil and still have the ability to load up for long range elk if one needed.

I noticed in a Dakota magazine Todd Kindler, the guy who shoots small calibers made a bad 1st hit on an antelope with a 7mm Dakota at 400 yds. I wonder what his shot placement would have been had he been shooting a lighter recoiling 'varmint ctg'?

I believe recoil from being 'over gunned' causes many shooters to flinch and shoot worse when the chips are down.

I wonder if TC will do an Encore in 338 Federal?

Color me disappointed. I don't buy Shooting Times very often but I plunked down my $3.99 USD to see what Mr. Simpson had to say about the 338 Federal in comparison to the 358 Winchester. After recounting that the 358 was introduced by Winchester in 1955 he made mention of the two cartridges' obvious similarities precisely zero times. At least he allowed the 51 year old 358 be in the family picture. There it stands, to the far right in the line up of factory round based on the 308 case, mutely begging "What's this new cartridge have that I don't? Why won't Layne talk about me? Won't someone notice the resemblance?"

I just can't see where this is going to be a real good seller. Wouldn't they have been better to go with a 338-06. I think it would be a better seller and better cartridge. Of course then we would be having this conversation compareing it to the 35 Whelen. It goes on and on.

My greatest issue of concern is the performance of bullets which were concieved to function from higher velocity rifles when fired in this "new cartridge." I for one will stick with the .358 Winchester as I have seen many times it's abilities.

I don't know, this could be fun. I've been debating a larger bore, easy firing rifle for the wife to hunt bears with. She currently shoots her .257 real well, but I think it's a bit light for bears, even black ones. I actually considered the 338-08 as a potential choice, as well as the .358, the 338-06 and the 9.3X62. I kinda like the idea of the .338 Federal in that it should come in a relatively light package that is easy for a woman or kid to handle, but should still pack enough punch at bear/deer ranges to be effective without kicking the crap out of them. Granted, it's a niche cartridge, but so are many others. I'm interested to see how it develops.

DesertRam,
Likewise its starting to interest me a little. With a 358Win in the safe it's hardly needed, but if it shows in a Tikka T3 or Ruger S/S then I may scratch the itch.
Cheers...
Con

Desert Ram I guess I should try it before suggesting it: but have you guys shot a short action .358 WCF with Barnes 225 gr TSX? I haven't needed that kind of bullet yet. "Bang flop" almost always on whitetails with a 200 gr Remington bulk bullet. I'm going for a rebarrel in a 600 in .243. 358 is my choice. I have a 99 brush gun in 358 and a pistol as well. Thus I have seen no need for a 338-08 for myself. I does sound fun to play with. Good Luck. Packy

I think the 338 federal is a great idea, short action light recoiling cartridge with bullets of a high B.C. For some reason, folks with shorter arms tend to like the short actions (my wife being the exception opting for the 338 win mag, gotta love her). I would have to concede that the timing is off though, had they beat the 338-06 to the punch, all bets would be to the federal. But then again no guts, no glory.

John

6.5Br
Thanks for the heads up on the article. I've been waiting for something to hit the racks so I could read more about it.
Seem's like a really good package for a true short action rifle, without getting the shot kicked outa you (spelled WSM).
I was just handling my older Sako Forester in .243 earlier today...23" barrel, short action and smoooth...got a 2-7x leupold on it. That would be just this ticket in .338 Fed

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:
My greatest issue of concern is the performance of bullets which were concieved to function from higher velocity rifles when fired in this "new cartridge." I for one will stick with the .358 Winchester as I have seen many times it's abilities.

That should not be a problem, since not all .338-caliber bullets are designed tough. I would agree with you that heavy bullets (250 grains and heavier) may not readily expand at longer ranges, but they still do an excellent job at closer ranges. In fact, the .338 Sabi-which is the African version of the .338-06, was designed based on the heaviest .338-caliber bullets.

All that is needed to attain higher velocities of the .338 Federal is to use lighter bullets. With the lighter bullets, lets say up to 210 grains, this cartridge should be an excellent deer to elk cartridge, and in my view, a boost to those hunters and shooters who use .308's.

Finally, more than likely Federal will load .338 Federal High Energy ammo very soon, and this will further enhance this cartridge.

We need better rifles. The .358 Win is pretty much done, so Federal is doing us a favor by introducing the .338 Federal -- if we get some better rifles in the market to shoot it in. The Sako M85 is one such, I expect there will be more.

jim

Could be a neat round. I wonder if the same issues regarding case capacity apply like the long bullets in the .358, .350 Rem Mag or .308 in a short action where they must be seated deep? Not sure what can be gained over the .307/.308/.356/.358 from a practical standpoint. Bet the Elk can't tell the differance either, but then if I had one, I'd be the first on the block!!

This cartridge interests me only because I have an abundant supply of both 308 brass and a thousand .338 bullets. (Hint: never take money to gunstore that is going out of business....you too might end up with a lot of bullets!)
Also have a nice old tang safety Ruger short action kicking around...might be a fun project.
IMO I have never seen a gun rag article on anything new that didn't think it was the greatest thing ever invented. e.g. the WSSM cartridges that may, or may not have, caused the demise of Winchester.

My disappointment with Simpson's article notwithstanding, the 338 Federal is interesting enough cartridge. I hope it catches on, if only to serve a sensible counterpoint to the current infestation of 404-based wide short bottles. Still, when it comes time to rebarrel the 243 I'll be choosing between the 260 and the 358.

quote:

Wouldn't they have been better to go with a 338-06. I think it would be a better seller and better cartridge. Of course then we would be having this conversation compareing it to the 35 Whelen. It goes on and on.

When I look at 338 vs 358 I see better bullet ballistics(BC's & SD's) on paper for 338 dia for every comparable bullet weight. That is one of the reasons I built a 338-06 instead of a Whelen. Now that may not mean much in the field. But I think the 338 is better.

I really like the idea of the 338 Federal. The 358 Win has proven itself. I just think that the 338 diameter is better. That's my 0.02 nothing more nothing less. Opinions are like...well you all know.

One thing I hope it does do. Is to prompt a bullet manufacturer to produce a 180gr inexpensive cup and jacket bullet for plinking. My hope would be Hornady or Sierra. The only two available now are Barnes and Nosler Accubond. Those are both great bullets, just too much $$ for plinking and not needed for deer. There was the 180gr BT's, (discontinued) and still more expensive than the 200gr Hornady SP.

Am I going to buy a 338 Fedaral? Probably not. Because I already own two 338-06's. I already have accurate practice loads that are real close to 338 Federal ballistics. Just a tad faster.

All I would have to do is build a nice light quick pointing gun based on an 06 action and what would I have? A gun that is maybe 3 oz heavier than the SA. I could cut the barrel down to a same overall gun length. That would cost me 1/2 an inch of barrel. And we're not worrying about fps anyway.

Hmmmmmm.......That last paragraph got me thinking. Boy, is my gunsmith going to like me.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktail53:
6.5Br
Thanks for the heads up on the article. I've been waiting for something to hit the racks so I could read more about it.
Seem's like a really good package for a true short action rifle, without getting the shot kicked outa you (spelled WSM).
I was just handling my older Sako Forester in .243 earlier today...23" barrel, short action and smoooth...got a 2-7x leupold on it. That would be just this ticket in .338 Fed

Color me cheap, or just not wasting money on Gun Rags anymore....

I did stand down at the sporting good section at WalMart one night and read the article there....

There was a better article written a while ago on the 338/08 by Ken Waters in the October 1995 Handloader Magazine ( back when that was a good magazine!)

It compared the 308, 358 and 338/08 in the article... For you Google guys, he also referred to an article called " 33/308, A Specialized Non Magnum" from the May 1974 issue of Handloader, Number 33 issue...

It highlights the then new 200 grain Ballistic tip as an ideal bullet or for the partition crowd the 210 grainer....NOt mentioned but would also be a good bullet in my book, the Sierra 215 grain SP...

The article was summed up " instead of looking at it as an understudy of the 338/06, it should be considered a further development of the 308 WCF"...

Reference was made to a step up from the 358 in velocity potential... and also compared that a 338/08 would send a 200 grain bullet 100 fps faster than a 308 would send a 180 grain bullet...

Another interesting quote was that " it is about 300 fps slower than a 338 Win Mag" with a 200, or 210 grain Noslers....Comparing that on a ballistics chart one can estimate, how much point blank range that they would give up...and ft lbs, but that may not be a real loss in most hunting situations....in the everyday real world....

Load info was also given and instead of spouting all of that off... I just think it is interesting to note that the best powders seemed to be flake powders like H 414, W 760, H 335 and W 748 for accuracy and velocity combination of desires...

"Highest velocity and best all around accuracy" went to a 200 grain Ballistic Tip with a charge of 46 grains of AA 2460....

The following were listed as very accurate:

200 grain ballistic tip..
1. 45 grains of IMR 4064
2. 44 grains of IMR 4320
3. 46 grains of H 4895
4. 46 grains of H 335
5. 45 grains of W 748
6. 46 grains of RL 15
7. 45 thru 47 grains of W 760
8. 48 to 50 grains of H 414
Most accurate went to 42 grains of RL 15.. from an MV of only 2338 fps
Second best accuracy: 46 grains of W 760..MV of 2316
Third best accuracy: 45 grains of VV150.. MV of 2499 fps
4th best accuracy: 43 grains of VV N 135, MV of 2470 and a 210 grain partition...
5th best accuracy: H 414, 48 grains, MV of 2439... 200 grain ballistic tip....

those were the highlights of the article that I would think would be of interest to my fellow AR affectionatos...

hope some of you boys find that some assistance....

cheers
seafire


oh;

with the 210 partition;
1. 43 grains of Rl 15
2. 45 grains of RL 15 " best accuracy with this bullet"

They made Ballistic Tips in 1974? Wow, I didn't know that.

Edit: Doh! My mistake. Missed the fact you were referencing two different articles.

Nevermind.....

Other than the slightly better bullet variety, what does the 338 Federal offer that the 8X57 won't?

quote:

I was just handling my older Sako Forester in .243 earlier today...23" barrel, short action and smoooth...got a 2-7x leupold on it. That would be just this ticket in .338 Fed

I let one go, as well as an A2 both in 243 and my thoughts on the forester, that action would have been for a rebarrel, I had thoughts before the 260 came out of putting a 6.5/308 which I did later on a Rem 700, but a 338/08 or 338 F would be nice.

To the 358 advocates, Nice round, just limited availability of factory rifles and cartridges, but I see them as ballistic twins at normal hunting ranges, 358 plenty of pistol bullets and bulk RP 200's, and made to expand at slower speeds, 338F- factory loads available to cover all applications w/in 300 yds deer-elk and better BC/SD.

Heck, the 338F equals or betters my 350 RM shooting 200 gr RP at 200 yds. Not bad.

SD Hunter, I had a 338/06 and if Sako built its rifles in both, I'd likely opt for it over the 338 F. But on a rebarrel, I currently have an interest in 260/338F/358 on short actions. By the way, had someone introduced a CARBINE 338 WM say 20-21", they might have been the mainstay in Alaska vs the 600 in 350RM. A 338/06 or WM in a short rifle would be handy, albeit very loud in the WM. I would go 21 in the 338-06 not giving up 40-50 fps over say 23 as was my 338-06. I had 2670 225's, 2790 215, 2909 200 btip vs the 338 F 2400 w/225, 210 @2550 factory, 200 about 2700.


I might just buy a 338 WM over the expense of building another 338/06 and deal with recoil only sighting in and hunting, but I don't get away out west much to hunt elk or bear. In the timber I would be fine with any 338F or 358 for either animal.

On deer, those premium bullets in Federal's factory loads are a bit tougher than needed, perhaps there will be some less expensive offerings.

To the 338/06 and 358 supporters, my only gripe is the industry is not currently pushing these with rifles and ammo.

Seafire, I have read thousands of dollars of magazines AT THE STANDS, and that one like many was read at Barnes and Noble.

HP-I have no experience with 8x57 but I am sure you do and what I can say about the 338F as it is, w/NO reference to how it compares, to someone who wants a cartridge that fits in a short action, has tolerable recoil-about like an '06, and has a larger heavier bullet, this cartridge should be considered if game is expected to range under 300 yds.

If someone HAS a 338/06, WM, 35 whelen, 358 and is happy with it, then there is no reason to go sell it and replace it with this. Likewise a good shooting 8x57.

If someone wants to try something new, it is a cartridge in my mind with merit.

I built a 6.5/308 before Rem came out with the 260 as it filled a niche as a better dual purpose round than a 243 with light recoil and it has been very successful to those using the round-260.

At the same time, mid 90's, I stuffed a 338 Ballistic tip 200gr in a FC 308 case and it has been sitting in my desk drawer since. I had lots of reasons to have put it together. The only other case I 'mocked up' was a 6.5 in a 223, yes TCU and think it would be neat, now there is a 6.5Grendel that is available in Lapua brass and ammo and it has a niche.

Bottom line, if it turns your crank it will do what it is expected, if not, enjoy what you own and use.

Seafire, the '95 issue used a BSA action but still the Btip bullet is a little long and eats up powder capacity. A hornady 200 is the way to go in this case, and under 300 likely won't give up a lot. It can be pushed 2600-2700 as shown by Layne Simpson.

I believe it will have a loyal following like the 260, 358, and 41 magnum and may never be make the best seller, but I do not believe it will let a hunter down with good shot placement to 300 yards and yes, many ctgs can do the same thing, I just like the combo of that diameter bullet on the widely available 308 short action case. In the year of celebrating the 30-06, I truly believe a 338F within most normal distances in the field-say 250 or less often encountered, I think the 338F may outshine the 30-06 with bang flops and/or shorter tracking distances. That comment may bring LOTS of criticism by the large number of 30-06 loyal followers. None the less, no one has ever put bad light on a decent 338 bullet in the field and no matter what ctg it is fired from, if the impact velocity is good enough, with good shot placement, the bullet will do the job at hand. True for deer and under, the 260 and similar rounds will always bring home the bacon if shot placement and proper bullets are used. But if bear and elk are on the menu, I see logic to have a larger bore.

Again, Bob Wooters wrote years ago 2 of his favorite 3 ctgs were a 308 and 338WM. Put the 2 together and fast forward many years and now we have the 338F.

Seafire, there was an article in the past 3-6 years in Rifle magazine or perhaps Handloader if not mistaken. It is on the 338-08 and it feature 2 rifles, one I remember a M70 I do believe and perhaps a Rem. 700 or Model 88 Lever action. The ballistics were about 2750 with the 185 Barnes and 210's were around 2600.

The authors I cannot recall for sure but either Wayne Van Zwolle, John Barsness, and Ken Waters. They had very favorable comments. It seems there may have been 2 authors in that article and as in the past, I read it there at the bookstore but it stayed there. I think it would have great info but being new, lots of load data should start coming out in future issues of gun mags as this will be a new product for 2006.

Thanks for the input to all.

One more point, to the 338/06 supporters and remember I owned and loved the one I had, I say that if for any reason this cartridge does not make a big success, than perhaps then the industry will push the '06 version.

As popular and good a round as the 280 is/was, look how successful the 7/08 has become! Similar performance, lets say plenty of it in rifles that were popular-short carbines.

I never owned a 280, but lots of 7/08's, 2960 with 139 in 21" barrel, and no it was not AI vesrion, point is, light to mid weight bullets perform similar in a case of 'less capacity'

To the naysayers of the 338F commercial success, only time will tell. IF it fails I don't believe it will be from game running off after fairly hit. They do tout lighter recoil and that is true vs magnums until you put it in an 'ultra-light' rifle and it will kick some I can imagine.

a 20-22" muzzle dia .65-.700 to me would be right sized, no lighter than 6.5 lbs or so.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
Other than the slightly better bullet variety, what does the 338 Federal offer that the 8X57 won't?

Availabililty in a short action... more bullet availability....

Something that is American....not European...

NOt that my 8 x 57 rifles are going to be thrown out at all....

Anything on a 308 case is a good thing in my book....

cheers
seafire

6.5Br,
Here's that article:
Posted 01 January 2006 04:47

In the august 2000 edition of Pedersen's Rifle Shooter magazine, Wayne van Zwoll penned a good article entitled "The Mighty .33 Magnums". He finishes his fine article with some comments and loads for the .338-08, of which he had experience with two owned by his pal Ken Nagle.
Kens model 70 Win had a 24" barrel. His model 88 ran with 22". Here are the two loads shown by Wayne and the text indicates they are from the 24" tube.
46gr accurate 2015, 185 BarnesX = 2810fps
44.5gr " " " , 210 Nosler = 2530fps

Whats' not to like?

Seafire,
Exactly my thoughts on the 8x57 vs .338F. The very fine 8mm really needs a long action to run right.
BTW check your PM's, I think I finally got it right!
BT53

i will personally stay with my 338 wm for flatter shooting and harder hitting, especially since i reload for it ang get great performance.i would recomend for those who buy the 338 federal to not go above 200 grain bulletts

nwwash,

I respect your choice and would not recommend replacing your WM if you can tolerate the recoil and shoot it well, and it works for you.

I want a lighter shorty (handier) rifle w/o as much blast and recoil. I will likely use 200 hornady's for deer at 2600-2700, and shoot 210's at 2550-2600+, or 225's around 2400 if wanting to hunt elk in Timber. Penetration wise, I believe a 210 should do what a 358 does w/225's, and a 225 PT will do what a 358 does with a 250gr.

In the open (expecting shots 300-400+) on elk, I would prefer more range and pick the 338-06 or 338WM. This application gives good reason to use 300's (not my cup of tea-but proven very effective).

I know many people use 7/08, 308, 6.5x55 for elk to 250yds, I believe this 338 F is a notch above on larger game, while giving solid performance on deer without excess meat damage should the bullet hit the shoulders or hams due to moderate velocity and controlled bullet expansion.

I remain less than impressed. I have been suspicious of Federal's quality control for some time given that twenty years ago it was my preferred brass. Today, one is lucky if the primer pockets remain viable for two or three reloads.
The same can be said about their 711B. What once was good, affordable ammunition is now questionable with different boxes and different case designs. Gone are the dimples and the wonderful consistency one looks for in ammunition.
Here is a textbook example of a cartridge that doesn't need to exist. Just what in the hell management is thinking I'll never know. If and when they change their primers, I will be done with them for good.

308 vs 30-06 vs 300 Mag vs super mags:
338 Federal vs 338-06 vs 338 Mag vs super mags

They all have their own strengths and weakness.
Find what suits you, and your style of hunting.

I think the 338 Federal will be a tremendous cartridge, but I don't know if will catch on.
I think a lot of people could benefit from a big slower moving bullet without all the recoil and noise.

Look at the ballistics, a deer,elk or bear will die from any of those loads.
I think a 225gr bullet moving at what 2400 fps would do a great job on just about anything.

Buckshot,

I being a reloader RARELY buying any factory ammo other than rimfire cannot attest to Federal or others QC.

It will be SO easy and far cheaper (seen Federal's ammo prices lately! or WW Premium, etc?) to get some 308 WW brass Once fired New, or hey Lapua might be overdoing it.....but reforming it would be So easy as was my 338-06.

Then drop in my powder of choice topped with a good bullet and I won't be worried about Federal's QC.

If Federal ammo shoots to spec-Good velocity AND good accuracy, I might buy some if in a jam, but if not, just having a factory rifle (read less $$$$ than rebarrel) and standard priced dies will be a blessing in my book.

SDhunter, as many 358 shooters who either use a good 225 or 250 gr w/success, so will a 338F at similar speeds and S.D./B.C. with 210/225's. As good as the Barnes is, and it will be a tad flatter, I might lean to the 210 or 225 if forced to shoot one load for everything. More impact and plenty retention.

Power never will replace accuracy, but too much can spoil it.....= flinching.

I remember being in Colorado and a great sized man was shooting a 340 Weatherby, got an opportunity to shoot as a herd of deer came in view, jumped out the truck and BOOM!!!!! Sounded like it could have set off an Avalanche!

His barrel was about straight up and his shot recovery time was hampered as deer scurried and he tried a 2nd shot. A milder round would have served him well especially since he was shooting about 50 yard distance.

The majority of elk and deer seen by my limited experience out west were in the Timber. A fast handling capable round was needed there, mag power not.

A BLR in 338F would be in my mind a great handling gun w/less recoil than a 358 shooting equal S.D. bullets. I will seriously look at one if produced. In fact I believe the first wildcatters rebored 308 Win model 88 levers to the 338-08. That and the 358 in those rifles seem ideal for deer, pigs/hogs, black bear, and elk in wooded/timber where long shots are not an issue but fast target aquisition can be vital. If one did encounter a large bear and needed to stop one, I would feel good with a 338F or 358 w/partition bullet.

Carrying my 338-06 a few years ago, I saw a couple of NICE mulies in timber and could have gotten a shot off but there was NO time to waste, BUT those nice racked bucks showed themselves a few days after the deer season closed and I was looking for elk. Had I been able legally I would have shot, on a stroll through timber, a light BLR would have been nice as it would have allowed me to 'get on them' fast, so would a syn. stocked carbine bolt.

Hmmmm, a Browning BAR in 338F, NOT that I spray and pray but I have seen some do good work at the range. If you needed fast follow up, that would be the cat's meow and in a gas gun, recoil would be greatly dampened. I have thought in the past about a semi in 260 or 7/08 so you can watch after a shot and be ready to squeeze instead of having to manipulate a bolt. A friend who has to shoot on his 'weak' side due to a motorcycle wreck, loves his BAR 300 shooting 180 ballistic tip WW supreme, slams the deer hard, and I remember my 338/06 with 200 btip equalled energy of his load. Works for him. Not matched for targets like a bolt gun, but usually good for DOA, deer of angle. He made a shot at 350/375 on a bedded deer-1st shot.

I do prefer bolts and single shots, but a dependable semi-auto can come in handy by those who make their first shot count, but have another ready 'now' if needed.

None the less, I see many options.

I may have been in error as I ran 210's at 2600 and 185 x at 2750 in a ballistics calculator and if the BC published is correct, the X bullet may surpass slightly in energy by 70-80lbs at 300 yds, but I believe the 210's and 225's offer a choice in desired heavier wt. bullets. This will be mostly an under 300 yd cartridge, which is fine as it will cover a lot of hunting needs.

It would be interesting to see penetration and expansion test with all bullets and then it would be easier to decide as 1-3" difference in trajectory in the field at 300 yards is not much.

I would say the heavier the timber you hunt, the closer the shots, all the more reason you might want the heavier bullets esp. if hunting Boar, Bear, or elk.

I believe I read where John Haviland uses a M7 in 7/08 for timber elk with 145 grand slams. I bet he will take a look at a handy 338 F for that use.

It doesn't have the range of the '06, .338-06, or even the Whelan because of the small case.

It doesn't have the bullet weight or "thump" of the .358 or .350 rem. for close range.

It kicks harder than the 7-08 & .308 so not much for people of small stature.

I honestly can think of no situation where one of the other cartridges is not a better choice.

An answer looking for a question, and it's day in the sun will be brief. Federal coulda done a lot better on it's flagship cartridge with a .25 Souper or .25-284 IMO. Furthermore....I think I like the .358 better. Using light bullets to inflate velocity does not impress me.

Heck I don't care what you nay sayers spout,, maybe not any thing for the bolt crowd,, but I'm giving serious thought to an AR-10 build up, still think that would make a great jump gun for pigs and bear

My view is if the regular 308 can't do it one needs a heck of a lot more than the 338-08. I also believe .308" is the practical end of the 308's capacity as .338" is the practical end of the 06' case.

You must have never hunted with the 358 Win...

Dr Lou, I had a nice 19" bbl'd M77 358 Win that I used for several years... the awful truth is I could never see it did anything a 308 didn't do as well or better, misty romanticism aside...

quote:

It doesn't have the bullet weight or "thump" of the .358 or .350 rem. for close range.

It kicks harder than the 7-08 & .308 so not much for people of small stature

Beartrack,

I agree with these comments, but would you doubt that going to 338, up from 308, that you gain a lot of 'thump' and going from 338 to 358, the differential there is of lesser gains?

Also, I have a 350 RM now, I intend to either sell it, or add a good recoil pad as I am shooting only 200gr now, and can imagine what it feels like with 225's and 250's.

I believe a 338 shooting 200-210 with 13-15grains LESS powder must kick measurably less. A 358 and 338F may kick similarly not sure.

I would believe that a 225 partition in either the 338 F OR the 358 both around 2400 mv should kill big game about the same. You can lighten the recoil of the 35's by shooting pistol bullets that are low BC, but a lighter 338 bullet has a decent BC that can range further with somewhat lesser recoil.

I guess it all boils down to recoil tolerance and I believe the 338-06 and 338F, as well as a 358 Win (haven't tried one...yet) will be about at MY personal threshold in a hunting weight rifle w/o brake. I have owned a 338 WM, GREAT round, a classic, what I would HOPE to have if only 1 rifle to hunt the world, but I cannot shoot one comfortably I will admit.

I own several 7mm/08 and when I load them at 2900+ with 140's, you can feel the performance not unlike a 270. It runs close. Much sharper recoil than a 243, recoil velocity, and momentum.

Perhaps my Ruger 350 solid rubber pad just plain sucks and a good replacement would make a world of difference.

I can tell you that alot of 350 shooters have stomped deer, pigs, bears, etc with 200 gr factory loads, or duplicates......and the 338 F outperforms it at 200 yards with same bullet wt.

I agree with something an author once wrote about when wanting to gain a measurable increase in killing power (read larger size game, not longer range) that a jump from 7mm or so-skipping over the 30's and going up to the 33's will do it well, noticeably.

I see hunters who take larger animals than deer with 338 F will be satisfied w/in its capabilities not lacking 'enough impact' to reliably drop bear, large hogs, elk, and moose. I hear moose are easy to kill, but I would want a large slug so they 'go down' sooner.

I think of a 338 F just as someone wrote in a shooters bible or similar annual book a few years ago, "a BABY 338 WM", that is saying lots, basically it should do anything a 338-06 or mag will do but at a lesser max range.

Chub Eastman wrote in a Nosler manual of dropping a Griz he accidently ran into while caribou hunting with a 338-06 with 210 Pt.

The same bullet in a 338 F would penetrate as well, if not better (slower expansion...) than a faster WM at the same distance.

Hogs, Bear, and Elk will be no problem on getting enough penetration. Layne Simpson wrote BOTH 185 X bullets fired exited the elk he shot at 300+ yards.

What more can you want? A 210 Pt. likely will do as well.

Anyway, I like the 358 Win, though as I owned a 338-06, I would again choose it over the 35 whelen for higher BC/SD of similar weight as to me its max range is around 400 yards-as far as I ever expect to try at a large animal like an elk, much less a deer.

If Federal had backed production of ammo and Sako rifles in 338-06 it would have been a great round with more versatility. They likely wanted something completely different, obviously having to do with the ability to stamp their name on the ctg.

If that happens down the road, I may again shoot that round, as a rebarrel to get a 338-06 is not attractive to me right now.

quote:

Posted 02 February 2006 07:47
You must have never hunted with the 358 Win..

Roger That !
I see tons of merit in this cartridge. It picks up where the 180gr/.308 leaves off. Now that the .358 win is no longer a viable factory offering (BLR only iirc) it can become the new heavy weight for short action firearms.
Available in any platform capable of the .308 size case. Plenty of good game bullet offerings and literaly tons of usable cases to reload.
Efficient in short or long barrels, suitable for all but the most wide open terrain and for any game in N America.
Less muzzle blast and recoil than any saum, wsm, 338-06, whelen or belted mag.
Some folks are too hung up on velocity and long range. That .338F, just like my .358W will do a lot more than the modest case looks capable of.
Lots and lots of elk, moose and big bears are taken every year by such outdated simpletons' as the '06 and .308. Somebody please explain to me why the .338F, which shoots great bullets and just as far as the '06 & '08. isn't just as appropriate..?
There's no magic here, but maybe a little understated brilliance... BT53

The way I see it, the 338 Federal will wind up very much like its predecessor in 358 -on the long list of has-beens.

Brad, perhaps it is simply misty romanticism. Other than shooting the M-60 in the military, I have never hunted with a 308. Nevertheless, my 358 hits like the hammer of Thor out to about 250 yards. It may work well beyond that, but I have not had a chance to experiment. I can also get to within 100 fps of my Whelen with similar pressures, a lot less recoil, and a shorter rifle.

buckshot, don't be too fast to judge, as the 358 if I remember was largely made in Savage 99's and considered a 'brush' round of short range, and they did likely kick well unscoped (less weight) and if shot with 250's.

The 338 F will be in scoped bolt actions which will cover a lot of average hunting distances. Let's face it, it is tough without a solid rest and a little time to hold and squeeze to pull of a shot over 300 with a normal weight rifle.

A heavy barreled rifle makes actually hitting something much easier as one has enough to worry about drop and drift at long distances much less a rifle of too light a weight that won't ....'settle down' well.

Dr. Lou, if the 358 was available in more rifles, particular bolt guns, and it would be helpful to 'resurrect' an older round with a variety of factory ammo, THEN I would definitely buy one.

I Still am considering a 358 BLR and have nothing against the cartridge. It is far underestimated in its abilities.....as most people who have owned them testify.

I believe the hunters that shoot 338 F, will find it to be a hammer as well, perhaps just a tad light hammer.

People who own rifles and load supplies for the other midbores may or may not want to go out and buy a 338 F, but I really expect when it is used it will do a great job on game as has the 358 and Whelen, 2 rounds the industry is not backing now as they are always wanting to push something new.

I think from a marketing standpoint that Federal has a 'sexy campaign and ctg' but one that is built on logic, not just a 'magnum short fat case' hype.

A 338 Federal in a 15 inch Encore pistol would be perfect!