Been loading up some rounds for my old model 70.308, using 150 & 165 grain bullets.
Thinking the 150 grainers would be fine for deer and a 165 if i should want to load for Elk.
Doing a little reaserch in the barnes manual I was rather suprised to see how little difference the was in measured performance beetween the two.
I used a velocity of 2900 for the 150s and and 2700 for the 165s
I thought the 150s would shoot a fair amount flatter but at 300 yards a 2900 FPS with a 150
sighed in for a 200 yard zero, is 1.7 high at 100 and drops to-7.5 at 300,
While the 2700 fps 165gr load with the same 200 yrd zero is 2 inches high at 100 and -8.32, less than an inch seperates them at 300 yards.
I was more interested in the Energy figures and was suprised to see the difference beetween the 2 bullet weights is less then 50# at 300 yards.
leeds me conclude one thing, shoot the one thats most accurate.
Its safe to say the 165 would probably penitrate a little better on an Elk , but would it really matter ?
I think the 150 & 165 grain bullets are prety much interchangable, in this cartridge. What do you think ? of corse lots of guy like 180s mabye I should look at them but if I want to go that heavy I would opt for another cartridge....tj3006

"shoot the one thats most accurate" +1 on that.


I've shot the 265 grain Hornady interlock BTSP for over 20 years in my 308 and I've never felt the need to change.

For elk use the 165. True, you will never see the difference in a book. In the field penetrating heavy bone is the difference in 150 and 165.

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For elk use the 165. True, you will never see the difference in a book.

Thus far, in the 308 Win., I've usually gotten the best accuracy with 168 gr. bullets.

I've always liked 165-168's in the 308. It all started when I was shooting a lot of high power silhouette with a 308. It turns out that the load that I was using had comeups for the turkeys, pigs, and rams of 3,6 and 9 minutes. It was so simple that I really didn't want to change even though the load was more than needed for chickens, pigs and turkeys.
It also turns out that 165-168's are really accurate with several different powders when loaded 2600-2700fps. You can use Varget, WW-748, VV-N140, RL-15, IMR-4895, IMR-4064 and others to get there and it usually will shoot well. I used WW-748 because it measures like water and could be dropped accurately enough for match loads but use Varget in a couple others.
The 308 is almost too easy to load for, especially with 165-168gr bullets..............DJ

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Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
...Its safe to say the 165 would probably penitrate a little better on an Elk , but would it really matter?
I think the 150 & 165 grain bullets are prety much interchangable, in this cartridge. What do you think? ...

Hey TJ, It depends on how bad the Termite Food is warped! Only kidding.

You will get deeper penetration with the 165gr-er compared to the 150gr-er(in the same Bullet Design), especially if the shots happen to be relatively close.

I've killed a bunch of Deer, Hogs and Bear with both weights and there are advantages to both. I don't use anything but Standard Grade bullets on them and they do fine.

That said, if I was going to go stomping around to find an Elk, I'd be using a 165gr Partition or other Premium bullet. And I'd wait for just the shot I wanted.

Great Cartridge for those bullet weights.

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

TJ, as you know I share your love for the two greatest cartridges ever, the 7x57 and 30-06. Both of which I have. The 308 is fast becoming a third favorite. As you know I kill a couple of deer/exotics each year and last year ten pigs. I have found the 165pt the best in both my '06 and '08. It opens relatively fast on deer and yet will break both shoulders of a 200lb+ boar. I aimed at the neck, he must have taken a step forward. The load was a max load of Varget @2675fps range was 100yds. That load using 165SSTs shoots to practally the same POA. The SSTs shoot under an inch while the PTs shoot about 1.25" three of one and two of the other shoot a little over 1.5" It's a wonderfull cartridge and five shot milsurp groups average under 2". I can gong the 4" gong 3-out-of-5 at 200yds, which is good cheap practice. I blame my misses on the milsurp. capt david

Thanks for all the great replies. !
This particular rifle does not seem to like either varget or RL-15. I was so suprised about that I nearly traded it for another .308, but I had some IMR-4064 on hand so I decided to try it first. Brought the groups from 2 inches to an inch in a hart beat.
Just bought a can of W-748 and loaded 10 rounds of The 168 grain barnes tripple shock over 46 grains of it.
I have 4 loads to try out in her but the there is tons of flooding beetween here and my range so it will be a little while.
I am thinking of repacing the FF2 3X9 that sits on my old winchester with somthing else, mabye a 2.5X8 leupold VX3 or a 1.5X6 burris signiture select !
I am prety proud of the job I did on the stock
slowly sanding out the rough spots and hand rubbing thin coats of some RB-wood treatment into it when ever I feel ike it. I left a few of the deeper dents alone cause it,ll get new ones anyway. Ill, try to post a picture or two my picture are usually good for laughs if nothing else !
thanks again for the good usfull posts.
...tj3006

Looking at the performance of the 150 grain bullets of non premium construction I would have to say they are adequate for elk.

A long time Grand Junction resident , now in his 80s, has gotten at least one elk every year using the 30 cal. 150s. The 165s or 168s do bring a little more to the table but not much. The 180s are a poor match in the short necked, short magazined, short throated .308. roger

The best powders I've had for the 308 have been W748, IMR3031 and BL/C #2. IMR4064 was OK but nothing special.

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The 180s are a poor match in the short necked, short magazined, short throated .308. roger

I don't necessarily agree, which I'll getback to shortly. some more.
I shoot the .308 a lot and beieve in one load for one gun. Learn that load and you're good to go. For years I've used the Sierra Pro-hunter 150 gr. bullet for the .308. Great results on deer but a lot of mangled meat in the process. Then, I fell into a real good deal on a Ruger RSI International in .308 and it was love, lust and gotta have at first sight. This little jewel was the fussiest rifle I ever had to work up a load for. The 150 gr. bullets wouldn't do better than 3.5 to 4.0" and 180 gr. Spitzers wrer 5.0" grouper at best. I was statring to believe the guy I got it from when he said it was not accurate. I decided to try some fairly non-standard powders for the .308 and found two loads that worked. Powder was W-760 and the 165 gr. Speer Hot-core using 49.0 gr. of powder and Winchester WLR pimer and Winchester brass. Velocity from the 18.5" barrel was 2550 FPS and fron a 22" barrel 2610 FPS. Granted, no barn burners, but sufficient for 90 percent of my hunting. The other load did an amazingly consistant .75". One of these days I'll have run it over the chronograph, but for the record, it's a 180 gr. Sierra round nose over 48.0 gr. of W-760 powder, same brass and primer. The load has been deadly a shell on every deer I've shot with it, all one shot kills.
Now, back to Roger's comment. I kept hearing how the .308 was not worth a damn with bullets of 200 to 220 grains. I say BS! I haven't bothered with 200 gr. bullets but I did do a test series with 220 gr. Sierra round nose bullets in a 22" barreled Winchester M70 with a 1 in 12" twist barrel. OK, two handicaps there, too little case capacity for decent velocity for the heavy bullet and a 1 in 12" supposedly will not stabilize a .30 caliber bullet that heavy. BALONEY!
Using W-760, Winchester brass, WLR primer, I reached 2310 FPS from the 22" barrel. No, it's not a real barn burner but consider two things. Shortly after the 30-06 came out, the 30-40 Krag with 220 gr. bullet at 2000 was considered a better bullet load than the 30-06 at 2400 FPS, if it went that fast. Better quality bullets changed that in favor of the 06.
However, in a side by side test, I compared Winchester brand .308 and 30-06 ammo with 180 gr. Silvertips with the .308 in a 22" barrel and the 06 with 22, 24 and 26 " barrels. In only the 26" barreled rifle (Ruger #1B) did the 30-06 even come close to advertised specs and was still 50 FPS short of the mark. The .308 was faster (not by much) in the 22" barrel and marginally faster in the 24" barreled rifle. I would like to find a box of 30-06 220 gr. Winchester factory ammo to run over the Chrony just to see how close it comes to advertised velocity. If it turns out to be 50 FPS shy like the 180 gr. loads were, then maybe the .308 with the heavier bullets isn't so badly handicapped after all. Well maybe. After all, if a bullet doesn't leave the barrel at 4000 FPS, vaporize a bull moose at 1,000 yards, then the gun ain't worth a damn.
For those curious enough to try the experiment the following is data from the One Book/One Caliber manual.
Powder: W-760
Brass: Winchester
Primer: Winchester WLR
Bullet:Sierra 220 gr. round nose Pro-Hunter
Starting load: 42.0 gr. 2177 FPS 42,000 C.U.P.
Maximum load: 44.0 gr. 2295 FPS 46,900 C.U.P.
I was able to reach the maximum load with absolutely no signs of pressure. Rifle had a 1 in 12" twist rate. The .308 Win. rifle with a 1 in 10" twist may or may not be able to reach the maximum charge so be careful if you want try the load.
Based on the above, I feel the .308 Win. is handicapped by the thought that the heavier bullets won't work. I think that by judicious choices in bullet construction and careful handloading would make the .308 with heavy bullet more than viable for hunting heavier game. After all, the late William David Maitland "Karamojo" Bell once thought that the .308 Win. with a 220 gr. full metal jacket bullet at 2300 FPS would be the perfect elephant gun. I'm certainly not going to argue with a man who killed 800 plus of his 1,100 elephants with a 7x57 at 2300 FPS and 175 gr. FMJ bullets if he thinks that combination would work.
Paul B.
Paul B.

My particular 308 is a pre 64 model 70 .featherweight and is built on a long action
If I were to get a 06 magazine box (one without the spacer I could take better advantage of the throat , now the limiting factor for lenth is a the magazine not the throat.
A 180 grain bullet may be worth trying ,
But if I want to shoot a 220 grain bullet, I,ll go my 35 Whelen or my .338 win.
I would bet that for a guy hunting black bear from a stand where you know your distance , a heavy round nose might be real good, But again I have a better rifle, a 45/70 for that purpose...tj3006

I have to agree with Bartche, a slightly heavier bullet in the 308 doesn't add much more punch. Tje 308 was originally designed around a 150 gr. or slightly less bullet weight!
Why go with a heavier bullewt that takes up powder space and is much slower to boot? A good 150 gr bullet will do just fine for anything a 308 is suitable for.

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Originally posted by Paul B:

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The 180s are a poor match in the short necked, short magazined, short throated .308. roger

Now, back to Roger's comment. I kept hearing how the .308 was not worth a damn with bullets of 200 to 220 grains.

Didn't say that at all Paul The heavier bullets can be used but only at some compromise. By the way that sure was a lot of rhetoric in your posting. No BULL SHIT just straight from the what ever. roger