I didn't know where to post this, so I'll try here. How difficult is it to get a C&R license? How long does it take? Someone on another thread said that with it you can also get discounts through Midway as a dealer--is that correct?

there are also state requirements. In order to get discounts most businesses or wholesalers require a vendors license which you will then be required to pay tax on any items you purchase and resale, for instance you purchase a rifle and then sell it to a friend at cost there will be a tax. In ohio I was required to file quarterly.
we are required to send a copy of the c&r application to the county sheriff.
You will be required to keep records the same as a ffl license holder.
Dave

It's very easy to get the C&R license. Had mine about 5 years now. The forms {2} are easily down loaded from the atf website. I've since forgotten the form numbers but the site is very easy to navigate. One of the forms is verifying citizenship and other is for collector of curio and relics. By the way the C&R family is a pretty broad spectrum of firearms. Fee for license is $30- and is a three year license. The C&F application is in duplicate if original form is requested from ATF, if down loaded you will need a copy. The duplicate or copy will go to the chief law enforcement officer of your county of residence and top copy will go to ATF along with postal money order of $30-. Can take anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks. Yes midway does honer the C&R for wholesale/dealer pricing and you can purchase C&R firearms wholesale from distributers. Can be interesting. Hope I was some help. Rodney.

http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

Try the above link to the ATF Distribution Center. You can order the C & R application, form F5310.16(F7CR).

As Rodney said, it's pretty straight forward.

In regards to being a dealer for Midway, here is their tax policy:

Sales Tax Information

* Dealers, Government, Military, Police or Institutional accounts located within the State of Missouri, MidwayUSA must have a copy of your Missouri Sales/Use Tax Exemption Certificate Form DOR 149 on file with us before you place your order or we are required by the Missouri Department of Revenue to collect the Missouri State Sales Tax of 5.50%. The Missouri Department of Revenue Form DOR 149 can be found at:
http://www.dor.mo.gov/tax/busi...sales/forms/149f.pdf

* Dealers who wish to take delivery of an order inside the State of Missouri or wish to pick up shipments at MidwayUSA, Columbia, MO are required to complete and have on file with us a Missouri Sales/Use Tax Exemption Certificate DOR Form 149 before you place your pick up order or we are required to collect Missouri State Sales Tax of 5.50%. The Missouri Department of Revenue Form DOR 149 can be found at:
http://www.dor.mo.gov/tax/busi...sales/forms/149f.pdf

* We cannot refund sales tax collected on sales prior to receiving the signed Exemption Certificate.

End quote

All that being said, I've contacted Midway asking for more information. If I get anything useful, I'll post it here.

Now all that being said, you would be responsible for paying sales tax in your home state. I believe that here in Michigan they have gone after people who've done a lot of online ordering from places that do no collect sales tax and forward to the state in question. And if you start selling products that you've purchased from Midway then that's a whole other story. But then, if it's a cash only business, who would know. I'm not a small business owner so this last segment is mostly speculation.

In case you are interested, I received some feed back from Midway. I've attached their response.


Start quote:

Thank you for your recent email and interest in our Dealer program. In order to qualify for Dealer status, we require one of the following documents:
- Signed copy of your Federal Firearms License (FFL): The FFL must be signed in ink and the FFL number and expiration date must be legible. This information may also be faxed to us at 1-800-992-8312.
- Business or Merchants License: License must be issued by a State, County, or Local Government office for a business whose name and nature relates to Shooting, Reloading, Gunsmithing, Hunting, or Outdoor Trades.
- State-issued Tax Resale Permit: Permit must be issued by the State Department of Revenue for a business whose name and nature relates to Shooting, Reloading, Gunsmithing, Hunting, or Outdoor Trades.

MidwayUSA supports students enrolled in a gunsmithing program by offering Dealer pricing. We require a letter from your Registrar verifying enrollment, or a copy of your current schedule of courses that shows you are enrolled in a gunsmithing program.

Dealer pricing is also extended to customers in Government, Military, Police and Institutional Departments with GMPI status. Documentation on official letterhead, purchase order or requisition form, and a list of personnel authorized to use the account must be supplied.

All documentation can either be faxed or mailed to us. Due to our virus screening software, we cannot accept attachments via email. Our fax number is 1-800-992-8312 and our mailing address is:

MidwayUSA
Attn: Dealer Sales
5875 West Van Horn Tavern Rd
Columbia, MO 65203

Please allow 2-3 days for processing, account set-up and approval. Once your Dealer account has been established, you can access your account through our website at www.midwayusa.com by using your email address and a password you will create. Then click the "Dealer Homepage" button and view special information pertaining to your dealer account. This includes a downloadable and printable version of our Dealer Master Catalog.

If you have additional questions or comments, please contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM Monday through Friday and 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM on Saturday and Sunday (CT). You may also email us at customerservice@midwayusa.com.
Thanks for your business,
Lynn

MidwayUSA Customer Service Associate

End quote.

Hope this helps.

One more thing-

Having a C&R license entitles you to BUY C&R eligible firearms through the mail...BUT, it DOES NOT authorize you to conduct a business where you buy and sell C&R firearms.

A firearms buying and selling business (other than one which deals exclusively with antique firearms) requires a regular "dealer's" 01-type FFL.

The C&R license is for the use of collector's of Curios and Relics, not persons who make money intentionally by regular buying and selling of them.

True, you can make occasional sales with no problem, but regularly buying and selling can end up earning one the ecxtreme displeasure of BATFE if it ever comes to their attention.

So, in most states you are not responsible for collecting or paying in to the state any sales tax....as you are NOT running a business at all. There are some states which would collect such a tax, but those are only the states where anything a private person sells is technically subject to the same rules, whether it be an old coat, a used bicycle, or in this case an old gun.

My advice is to get a C&R, but use it only for the following purposes:

A. Buying eligible C&R firearms you intend to keep,

B. Qualifying for discounts from those wholesalers who recognize all FFL holders, not just dealers, and

C. In rare instances, helping you qualify for cheaper gun insurance with those companies which only cover "collections", not dealer's stock, or even commonly used-in-the-field firearms.

None of this means you may not be able to get away with more, but if you read the BATFE regulations, you will find it IS the intent of C&R regulations. Trying to use it to run an "old gun" dealership CAN cause heap big trouble (though it probably won't).

Alberta,

Excellent point. I don't believe that anyone here was advocating getting a C & R to buy/sell firearms as a business. We were just looking for a way to qualify for discounts through various outlets.

All that being said, how many guns do I have to buy/sell before it becomes a business? I don't believe that there are any set rules ie, I bought/sold 15 guns this year, so this qualifies me as a dealer. Or am I just some average Joe adding a few pieces and brooming out some old stuff? There's a little ambiguity in the rules.

quote:

Originally posted by dlile1:
Alberta,

Excellent point. I don't believe that anyone here was advocating getting a C & R to buy/sell firearms as a business. We were just looking for a way to qualify for discounts through various outlets.

All that being said, how many guns do I have to buy/sell before it becomes a business? I don't believe that there are any set rules ie, I bought/sold 15 guns this year, so this qualifies me as a dealer. Or am I just some average Joe adding a few pieces and brooming out some old stuff? There's a little ambiguity in the rules.

10-4. I was not accusing anyone of advocating illegal use of a C&R licnse.

I did note that one person referred to getting a "dealers" discount from Midway. It is a fine point, but Midway actually gives an "FFL discount" to C&R holders, not a dealer's discount. Another respondent mentioned that selling a firearm while having a C&R license obligated a person to pay sales tax to his state. That is not true in many (most?) states, even if they have a sales tax.

So, I was trying to help would-be C&R holders steer clear of doing things which the C&R FFL does not authorize them to do, and, at the same time, not be afraid to get a C&R because of perceived sales tax hassles.

Personally, I think the C&R license is the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially for serious firearms afficionados who may want to get firearms like old Model 70s (which often are C&R transfer eligible) without having to pay sometimes outrageous transfer fees.

I think everyone should get one who does not already have some other form of FFL.

-------------

As to your comment about the number of firearms sold per annum which qualify one as a dealer, you are completely correct. There is NO definition of a dealer in quantitative terms. Rather, it is determined by the BATFE agent's perception of one's intent. In that instance, it is a matter of subjective perceptions on his part.

To be safe then, it is kind of important to have followed the lesson taught by the old saying "It is important that Caesar's wife not only BE virtuous, but that she APPEAR to be virtuous."

But then, if you run into one of the few agents who is really a female sexual organ in disguise, it doesn't really matter...there is no way to be 100% safe.

Thanks to all. You've been very helpful. I only want the license to purchase guns for my personal use and to get legitimate discounts.

Something to keep in mind, and I'm not advocating either way, is "How many firearms do you trade a year vs licensing costs and book-keeping requirements?" I found I fall on the side of "not worth it to me" though many of my friends carry C&R or full FFLs (and don't gouge me on transfers).

Simply put the C&R FFL really is very simple, just keep very good and correct aquisition and disposition records. Use the A&D books availlable from Brownells and most importantly do not abuse your priveledges. The C&R is not a dealers license so you will not have to worry with a sales tax permit because you are not a business, no 4473 forms for C&R and no NICS/background checks. Use it for what it is. Rodney.

getting the C&R is easy. i have had one for about 7 years. have not sold anything bought on that license.

I would only add it depends on WHERE you reside as far as " Easy " to obtain any firearms licensing !.

There are certain states and areas which it's not easy and you can be denied based on that alone !.

Even a C&R set up !.

As for an FFL least wise where I reside part of the time isn't possible .

Must have a commercial store front operation . No Longer allowed are Home shops !.

The C&R does allow you to upgrade your collection. For example, you can buy a 80% prewar Luger and a year later sell it to fund a 85% one or a rarer variant.

The trouble is when the ATF decides you are conducting a business and not collecting.

Some think buying 10 Mosin Nagants from an importer, keeping the best one, and selling the remaining nine is legitimate collecting activity, others do not.

The cases I have read about folks getting busted by the ATF for running a business on a C&R FFL have been pretty egregious and it wouldn't take a legal scholar to see what they were doing was wrong.

A C&R is a great way to get some cool old stuff mailed directly to you without the middleman and you get a few % off at Midway, Brownells and Grafs which more than make up cost of the FFL.

The C&R is a fine license to have. I like it a lot.

I presently own some C&Rs plus non C&Rs.

Do any of my present rifles have to be logged if I acquire a C&R license?

Only the licensed transferred curio and relic firearms should be in the A&D log book with your FFL number on it. You will need to have a seperate log book for all other guns even existing ones that would qualify as c&r but not transferred as such in this other seperate book titled personal collection. Rodney.

Maybe I am blessed, I still find it simpler to have manufacturer FFL friends handle transfers for me for a dollar, charge me 5% on components and parts, and not have to worry if I crossed my eyes and dotted my tees properly. Depends on how much horse trading you don in a year as to if it's worth it.

The less Fed forms and books I have to keep track of in my life, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Saves me from Rodney's decision of "does this need to go in a book or not?" and I can afford the dollar transfers. Depends on where you live and who your friends are as to if it's worth having. That's what it boils down to in the ultimate essence of whether or not to carry the license.

Some will save money, some will have added hassles and possible legal liability. Where you fit in depends on who your friends are, what state you live in, whether or not you get along with your local LEO chief or judges, etc.

Figure out how many transfers you are really going to do and do the math. That's the sensible way to approach the question.