The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The Rifleman’s Rifle R. RuleGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| The Rifleman’s Rifle R. Rule | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Just finished processing this book. All I can say is wow. I do not know how he got to his source material. I throughly enjoyed the section on the special, military experimentally cartridges from 22 to 27 caliber based on the 308 case. Pages 302-305. This was information I had never heard about let alone seen. I had no idea Winchester had Stainless Steel barrels as early as 1925 as a special order of course. Another interesting view this book provides is the book is a time capsule in detail of US manufacturing power and collapse (or evolution depending on ones point of view). It is done so through the paradigm of arms manufacturing. At manufacturing power, like all flowers in bloom, was dying at its zenith. A simple example as early as 1952 cost concerns saw the intergal sight ramp being phased out for soldered sight. Not saying the soldered sight ramp is “bad”, but a cost saving measure. My summation our modern alloy steels m are better, but that is were the better stops. The book should be seen more than a gun book and more as a case study on American manufacturing. It is amazing the rifle, the manufacturing process and mind set that made it the best lasted as long as it did. How US Repeating Arms thought they could make ago even with FN backing is beyond me. I do generally like the Model 70 Classic that FN brought to the market after taking full control of USRA. However, the same factors labor cost, union strife, taxes were still there to break the dream. One thing the book does not address or answer is why Western-Winchester used the two piece bottom metal. Masuer had one piece bottom metal? They could have made once piece bottom metal with hinged magazine floor plate, but hit on the 2 piece. | ||
|
new member |
This book is on my must have lists. Maybe something to read on the long flights to SA this year. Thanks for the review. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have it, and have tried to read it, but have only been able to skim it. I found it to be more of a collector's book, as it goes into great detail on the variations, calibers, etc. But you have convinced me to give it another chance. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| One of Us |
It is certainly a collector book. It is the market desire and need to deliver a certain level of product versus production-economic factors that drove all this variations that I am referring to. This is understated. Yet, I submit obvious. This is no one where in the book, but Remington undercutting of the market with the 721/700 series. The public’s acceptance of such a rifle must have caused Western-Winchester a great deal of trouble. Then to have the attempt at such a rifle rebuked most have brought great unrest. | |||
|
One of Us |
I've had the book for a while. It indeed is a very thorough history of the model 70. The vast amount of variations that could be bought, especially prior to WWII is pretty amazing. I would love to have several shown in that book.  Regarding the slip in quality during its production time it's easy to see why a pre war model 70 is consider the best of the breed. The book also dispels the idea that Winchester only recently was sold to new owners. In reality it has happened several times. In fact the birth of the model 70 happened after the old original Winchester company went away. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
|
| one of us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
I gave a signed first edition to my PH/Outfitter as he was a Winchester 70 fan and loved my pre 64's over there when I went. I found out after the fact and gave it to him the next time he was in the US for the Shows. You have the chance to take one with you, read it on the plane, and then present it as a tip. Just a thought. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree that it is a bit of a history into US industry. I like guns made when the makers made the best gun they could possibly make, not the most cost effective or profit bearing! I like my model 70's from 1949 -1951 the best. They finally had scoping them refined and had not instituted cost saving measures. If they had Monte Carlo combs in those years they would have been perfection! PreWars are works of art but not as scope friendly as optics use was in it's infancy then. I also like my over engineered Smith and Wessons, i.e. 5 screws, pinned, and recessed! PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not only a great read, but for us Pre 64 M70 fans a wonderful tool. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The Pre '64 Winchester Model 70 was a monumental milestone in American big game hunting history. However, I'd argue that Remington Model 700 was a more significant milestone. The Model 700 placed the Sport of Kings in hands of the common man. The Model 700 was relatively inexpensive, beyond extremely accurate, and extremely reliable (the Model 700 action replaced prior sniper rifles in the US Military and law enforcement). The Model 700 allowed the working man to take to big game fields along side of dudes sporting custom made outfits that cost more than the common man earned in a year, but were they no more effective on big game than was the Model 700. My first my big game rifle was a Model 700 .270 Win. Experience hunters recommended the .270 Win. The '06 was too much gun for a 16 year-old kid. Gun writers have taken to the silly notion that the '06 has become ineffective on everything but Coues deer. I still have my Model 700. It's 45 years young. It will shoot .25" @ a hundred with hand loaded hunting ammo. With the standard .270 Win load of 60 grains of H-4831 and 130 grain bullets (I use Sierra & BallisticTips), it'll drop Rocky Mountain mule deer in their tracks. This load will chrono at better than 3000 FPS out of a 22" barrel. I've added a few more rifles to my big game battery, but for many a season, it was my only hunting rifle. It has never failed me. I love my Sako AV rifles. They are precision crafted works of art. My Sako AV .270 Win is as accurate as my Model 700. If I'm drawn for desert bighorn this year (I have a lot of bonus points), I'll take my Model 700. That how much confidence I have in her. However, there is no denying the historical significance of the Pre '64 Model 70. Germany and Austria are the de facto leaders in precision made rifles. They're priced far beyond means of most of us. My bet is they're not better than Sako. My grief is due to the destruction of America's industrial base. Americans are the best craftsmen in the world. Lawyers and politicians have destroyed American craftsmen's ability to produce. That is a crying shame. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree to an extent about the model 700.All the new sub 500 dollar bolt actions so popular today are Model 700 clones. I do not consider this a good thing. But yes, the Model 700 won the war. The Model 70 could not compete. What must have been heart breaking to Western-Winchester to Model 700 up the Model 70 only to have it fail. I think the Model 70 gave customers an expectation. Those customers were not going to accept a Model 70 that was not a Model 70.i wonder what the reaction would have been if Western-Winchester would have called the post 63 Model 70 something else. A true new model (which it was).Maybe have kept the Model 70 as a custom shop special. When you look at the debt that USRA took on to keep the Winchester Model 70 alive there was no way they could make it. FN bought out the USRA folks fairly quickly. We know how that ended. I do like the Model 70 Classic. The Model 70 Classic did not return unto 1991 after FN bought out the entire enterprise. | |||
|
One of Us |
We (my sons and I) have both Model 70s and M700s. I too have a BDL in 270 Win I bought in the late 60s. It still shoots nickel sized groups and has killed many deer, elk, javelina, and 9 black bears. It is now my son's and is still an absolutely wonderful rife. I do favor my CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery these days (though it's a bit much for deer), but that BDL is and was a wonderful rifle. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles The Rifleman’s Rifle R. Rule
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia