Has any one used the new ruger scout rifle in 33. federal. How would it compare to the 45/70, 450.marlin for bear, moose.other than for distance.

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Has any one used the new ruger scout rifle in 33. federal. How would it compare to the 45/70, 450.marlin for bear, moose.other than for distance.

Assumeing you ment the 338 Federal, here's my take after hunting with the following cartridges in .338 extensively.. .338-06, .338-06 imp, .338 Win. mag., and 340 Wby.. I've used these carteidges to harvest numerous moose and several bears. (includeing browns)

Personally i think the .338-06 is the min. for big bears and moose as you need heavy bullets for deep penetration, especially on bears as you need to break them down NOT rib shoot them. The .338 Federal just will NOT push heavy bullets (250 grain min.) fast enough.

I'm not real impressed with the 45/70 at factory velocities, but loaded up with proper bullets it becomes "very good" even on the biggest animials. The 450 Marlin is already loaded up, so it works fine with factory loads... Both of those have very heavy recoil that i don't like though...

DM

DM,

what type of bears are you referring to? If you're referring to coastal browns, then no, I would not recommend any 338 for that matter, but if you're talking about your standard black bear along with moose, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 338 fed. if offers the same energy as the 30.06 with more frontal area.

Some folks up here hunt bear with 30-30 win and moose with the old 303 british and there is nothing wrong with those choices. My first BG rifle was a 303 british and it worked just fine.

To say you need a certain power level a 338.06 or 338 winmag is necessary is completely false.

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To say you need a certain power level a 338.06 or 338 winmag is necessary is completely false.

I think you need to re-read my last post... I never said it wouldn't kill them, i said it doesn't push "heavy enough bullets" to give "deep penetration" on the biggest animials. I was refering to other than rib shots, and after harvesting numerous moose in Alaska, i stand by my last answer... I do agree it's more than enough cartridge for many other animials such as blk. bear, deer ect...

As for Brown bears, i've also hunted and harvested several of those too. A .338 with heavy bullets at a decent velocity will easily break both shoulders and flatten the biggest bear on the spot... I'm NOT guessing here, i've done it myself.. I've also been in on many more brown bear hunts too.

Too many people are hung up on compareing "energy" and the term "power".... I like to see some penetration on big animials!!!

I prefer to use a bullet that "expands well" but also penetrates deep for shots other than rib shots, and that's what i have against the 338 Fed, they are designed to use too light of bullets..

BTW, i've also harvested a few moose in Ontario too...

DM

DM

Exactly!

I've even had some nut tell me that his 6.5 swedish mauser was a better moose and bear (including grizzly) gun than my .338 WM because of the higher SD of the 6.5 bullets in 140 and 160 grain.

Give me my .338 WM and a 250 grain any day.

I believe it was Chub Eastman, in Nosler book under 338-06, on a moose hunt, Griz popped up point blank, one shot, fell at about 10 ft from him, lights out with a single 210 partition.

I would go after moose and black bear up to 300 yds with a 338 federal. If you load your own a 225 partition can do about what the 358 does with a 250 gr. 185x and 210 partition are going to slay many animals by 338 federal toting hunters, just wait and see the reports by next season. Large bear, get a bigger gun.

The 338 federal is a great idea for a man that just loves to hunt with his Savage 99 and confines himself to big game and not dangerous game.

For everything else the 30-06 case makes a lot od sense.....

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just wait and see the reports by next season. Large bear, get a bigger gun.

I don't have to wait untill next season. I've owned two .338-06's since the 70's and i've harvested quite a few animials at lower 338-06 velocities. The .338-08 should beable equil these lower velocities with decent loads without any problems.

So i already know it's going to do a great job with "decent bullets" on medium sized animials. I think the real problem will come in when guys use the "too light" of bullets on too big of animials, and don't rib shoot them.

Almost any firearm will kill something if everything goes "perfect", it's those "other" times i prepare for.

DM

As I recall the question was,
How does the .338 fed comapre to the 45/70 and or 450 marlin for with out range considerations.
I have not played with the .338 federal , but I load for the 45/70, and with a good bullet 350 or bigger, I would consider it about as good as anything for Big north american game. But If I were hunting Big bears I would limit my shots to about 125 yards,
If I couldn't save my ass from a bear with 5 rounds of my 45/70 hand loads, the bear deservs me...tj3006

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 6.5BR:
I believe it was Chub Eastman, in Nosler book under 338-06, on a moose hunt, Griz popped up point blank, one shot, fell at about 10 ft from him, lights out with a single 210 partition.QUOTE]

Unless Chub had 2 close calls with grizzly, Chub and guide both shot the grizzly at the same time. He wrote about it in 1 of the recent handloading digests. The guide was using a .270 loaded with 150 Nosler partitions. The .338-06 went all the way through and the .270 did not exit. Because the .270 did not exit, Chub inferred that that light bullets were no good and I guess totally discounted that the grizzly was shot with a .270 as well as I have seen the story several times with no mention the bear was shot twice.

-Lou

I don't understand why someone feels the need of a 338 win mag or better to have "adequate penetration" on bear and moose when I've had quartering away shots on both species and had pass throughs with my 308 win with 165 IB's.

I agree totally, shot presentation and accuracy is what counts and when things go bad it's better to have more gun, but you could never convince me you need a magnum anything for any of these animals. How often do you need the "extra" penetration of a magnum, how often are you confronted with a texas heart shot scenario, and if that's the case why not wait until the animal turns. If you're concerned with stopping a possible charge, then buy a 416 taylor.

We also hunt these animals with bows with great success and they are nowhere near the energy of a magnum rifle so why is the "extra penetration" needed? I'm not advocating either that you can get away with a .22lr, just saying there are several calibers that can do the job well and have low enough recoil for novice or recoil shy shooters. I just don't think it's fair to inform an individual they "need" a certain power level when really in all fairness it's not justified 99% of the time.

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We also hunt these animals with bows with great success and they are nowhere near the energy of a magnum rifle so why is the "extra penetration" needed? I'm not advocating either that you can get away with a .22lr, just saying there are several calibers that can do the job well and have low enough recoil for novice or recoil shy shooters. I just don't think it's fair to inform an individual they "need" a certain power level when really in all fairness it's not justified 99% of the time.

Have you noticed how a bow kills????? It's NOT by the termed you seem to like to use, "power"... It's by "penetration"..

A 308" SOLID bullet will give all the penetration anyone would ever need, but that's NOT what i've been saying.... Reread my post, i said "good expansion" WITH penetration. I also said i like to be prepared for "less than" perfect shots....

All of that adds up to useing bullet that will break an animial down and expand well...

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I don't understand why someone feels the need of a 338 win mag or better to have "adequate penetration" on bear and moose when I've had quartering away shots on both species and had pass throughs with my 308 win with 165 IB's.

Now, no where in any of my post did i say you needed a "magnum" cartridge, i didn't use the term "power" and i didn't quote "energy" figures...

I also agree (again) that almost anything will kill almost any animials with a rib or other perfect. shot.

DM

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Have you noticed how a bow kills?????

Yes, very poorly!!!

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Yes, very poorly!!!

NO argument from me on that answer!!!

DM