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one of us |
Is there such a thing as a 338-06 improved of some kind? Anyone tried one? Seems like it would make a good all-around standard length caliber, along with the 8x64 & 9.3x62. Thanks. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | ||
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Actually the .338-06 without the extra cost of the ackley changes is a very good cartridge. The Ackley shoulder and body taper might add 25 feet/sec.......MAX!!!!! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Take a look at the 338 Hawk. You can even get properly headstamped brass. I don't know how much performance you can get over a standard 338-06 though. If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while. | |||
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Redlander, that looks like a good one. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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| one of us |
fla3006: I had a Model 70 in 30-06 rebarreled and chambered in 338-06 Ackley Improved, with a 40-degree shoulder. Redding makes a set of dies for it. I like the ballistics of the 338-06 cartridge very much; but as vapodog said, it is not a round that actually benefits very much from having the shoulder blown out a la Ackley. I suppose I probably increased the case capacity by about 3 grains. I haven't chrono'd the rifle yet; but I would be pretty surprised if I were actually getting an extra 40 fps. On the other hand, my cases don't stretch or have to be trimmed. | |||
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| one of us |
I just purchased a .338-06 on an FN action, with a 24 in. barrel, 2700-2750 is easily obtainable with the 210 Nosler partition. I have only tried two loads, both shot under 1 in. should make a great light weight thumper. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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The only Ackley cartridge I've ever had experience with was a 280 with a fairly sharp shoulder, kinda like that 338 Hawk, belonged to a friend and I loaded up some ammo for him. There was a fairly meaningful improvement over the Remington as best I recall, in velocity & accuracy. JStevens, a 338-06 on an FN action, that sounds like the bill to me! NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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fla3006 Seems to be a nice rifle on an old commercial action ser no.4xxx, with the old style sliding floorplate and a classic style stock and a Douglas air gauged barrel. I'm taking it and my CZ in 9.3x62 on a black bear hunt this spring to break it in. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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I probably have owned more semicustom commercial FNs than any other rifles. I love finding an old FN Deluxe with a Bishop or Fajen stock in a pawnshop. Right now I'm glass bedding, reshaping and refinishing the stocks on 3 such rifles, easy stuff I can do myself. When they come out particularly nice, which they usually do, I have an expert rechecker them and maybe reblue. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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The only downside to an AI round is forming brass. If you already had a .338-06, I wouldn't bother rechambering, but if you are planning a new rifle, why not? Dies might cost a bit more, but cases, barrel, same, same. I love my .338-06, it's never let me down & I like the bigger holes it makes.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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I love my 338-280Imp wildcat. If I was going to build a new one and wanted to get the maximum out of the 06 case I would look to the 338Hawk or 340Howell. Both can give you the correct head stamp while giving more capacity than the AI. The AI needs to have the brass formed as well. The only advantage is the ability to fire factory ammo. I doubt you will find 338-06 ammo in the back woods. Bottomline the most you can gain over factory and stay within pressure is 100-150? Yes I know some get bigger increases. But I feel they are getting it by increasing the pressure. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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When I was planning my 338-06, I initially considered the Ackley version. But too many times I heard "you just don't get as much as some people want to claim" when it came to more speed, etc. Granted, you "may" get more case life, etc, but on a round like this, how much does that honestly matter? In the end, I chambered in the unmodified 338-06 flavor, and love it! | |||
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I have 338-06 with a standard length box,two grains more capacity,sure would make reloading 225gr bullets easier.I don't have room for the 4350 class of powders. You can hunt longer with the wind at your back | |||
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When i first held a 9.3x64 in my hands my first thought was to neck it down to 338. Too bad brass supply for this fine case is such a problem! BBW: I'm getting over 2750fps with Nosler 200 gr ballastic tips & under 3/4" groups in my 338-06. 23" 1300 contour LW barrel on a FN action. | |||
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I have the standard 338-06 as far as headstamped brass you can by it from Wthby or Nosler although it is expensive.I have chrono'd 200gr bullets at 2900,210 at 2750,215 at 2725,225 at 2700 with a 24" bbl.I just take 30-06 brass run it through my Redding die and load.These are not hot loads either.Good luck with whatever you chose. | |||
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Sorry I forgot one 180-185gr. at 3000. | |||
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I've got a Sauer 200 barrel in 338-06 AI that gets about 2880 with the 200 gr Ballistic Tip. The single-stack magazine on the Sauer feeds soothly but I bet the shoulder could catch on a side-feeding staggered box magazine. If I were to do one on a Mauser it would be the standard version. The neck length on either the standard or AI is long enough to accomodate long cast bullets if you like that route. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I have owned several 338-06 AI rifles..At one time is was my favorite caliber, but I finally decided the 338 Win could do just a lot better and be loaded down to a 338-06 or IMP...and it was a factory round, I could tell no difference in recoil, used the same action, so common since swayed me in time...A decision I have never regretted.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My .338-06 is the "standard" version which I like very much. I shoot a 210 Nosler Partition at 2800 fps that has been very effective on elk. It's a pre-64 M70 Win .30-06 that's been rebored to .338-06. Great elk gun! Here's a pic of it with it's custom French walnut stock.   Be proud of each and every game animal you kill - big, small or no antlers! NRA LIFE Member | |||
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| One of Us |
I have to agree with the guys above who tell you the Ackley will not add anything in performance to the 338/06. I have a friend who has one, and actually in bullet weights, his Ackley gets slightly less velocity than I get out of my NON Ackley 338/06. Mine is a Model 70 that was bored out. The barrel still says 270 on it. Contrary to Ray Atkinson, after I started using a 338/06, my 338 Mags ( 2) have been sitting in the gun cabinet mainly, along with the 300 Win Mag. My favorite powder is H 380, which you don't see a lot of load data for so I had to sort of work it up on my own, but the results were worth it. Most people call Bullshit, when I state the velocities registering on the chronograph, and the accuracy is pretty darn satisfy for me. I think the 338/06 is a very very flexible cartridge. I am partial to 250 gr Round Noses, in nickel cases at 2650 for brush work, and 250 grain Hornady SPs in nickel cases for non brush conditions. I do however also load the 200 and 225 grains a lot. This is the only 'wildcat' cartridge I load for and own, but I sure darn well love it. I'd never be without one of these and never be without a 30/06 in a Model 70 and never without a 6.5 x 57, and never without a 6mm Remington, and a 22/250 and 223, or a 30/30 and 444! Cheers  and good shooting seafire  | |||
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Ray and Allen give some solid advice based on their experience. (And their experience is a lot more than mine!) However, I will take a little exception with Allen's statement above about the .338-06 being "impractical and nonsensical from almost every solid and honest standpoint of consideration." The .338-06 is the modern equivalent of the .318 Westley Richards (.330" diameter bullet). The .318 made its reputation in Africa with a 250gr bullet at 2400fps. (Not to mention the .333 Jeffery.) There's nothing wrong with those ballistics. Of course the .338 Win Mag will exceed that level of performance but that does not invalidate the .338-06. Now, that being said, I am currently having my gunsmith put together a new .338 Win Mag for me. I like the .338 Win Mag a lot. I had a .338-06 but sold it when I got my CZ 550 in 9.3x62. But, I liked the .338-06 very much. There's nothing wrong with the ballistics of the .318 Westley Richards, .333 Jeffery or the .338-06. Just my two cents worth... -Bob F.   Developed by Westley Richards around 1910 for use in their Mauser type bolt action rifles this has been and still is a very popular round for use against non-dangerous game.  http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/ | |||
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I agree that the .338 WM will do all the .338-06 will and more but the real question is, is more really needed? Rarely. There is no fireforming needed for the .338-06 but there is for the AI. The way I see it is if you are leaning toward the AI and want those precious extra fe FPS then do yourself a favor and get the .338 WM. Otherwise, if a 250 at 2,550 fps suits your needs then go with the .338-06.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Something that sparked my curiosity in the 338-06 was a statement in 1950s era Brno literature describing cartridges offered in their fine ZG-47: "Of the above mentioned cartridges (7x57, 7x64, 8x57S, 8x60S, 8x64S, 8x68S, 30-06, 270, 9.3x62, 10.75x68, 5.6x61, 6.5x57), the one that can be called universal and is best recommended is the calibre 8x64S. Its characterisitics are high muzzle velocity, outstanding shooting accuracy and great stopping power." I'd always thought the 30-06 was a pretty good all-around cartridge, got me thinking maybe something along the same lines with a slightly bigger bullet would be even more versatile, without getting too big. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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BTW: The 8x64S Brenneke is very close ballistically to the wildcat 8mm-06. -Bob F. | |||
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Two caveats, first I just bought a .338 Win, and second, I rarely get into pissing contests. However, I do agree somewhat with the second part of the above statement, but not the second. You can get properly headstamped ammo or brass for either the .338-06 or the .338 Hawk. And, you can get one or two more cartridges in the magazine, if that sort of thing piques your interest, and the guns for the smaller cartridges are generally lighter by a pound than the .338 Win Mag. If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while. | |||
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Forrest,if you're coming out Saturday after next I'll bring mine and you can play with it some. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Harry, when exactly? At Keith's? I'm going to the Tulsa show this weekend, are you talking about the 9th? That would be fun. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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| <allen day> |
You might be able to buy headstamped brass for some of these cartridges, but not for the .338-06 AI. And you're still stuck with an ammo resupply problem if the luggage containing your ammunition is seperated from your possession. Believe me, I've had this experience in Africa before, and it's no fun. Some of these wildcats are whupped up so the originator can get his name on a cartridge, create a proprietory demand, etc., or else they create them because of a misplaced set of priorities that are defy common sense. The worst kind of foolishness is to go down in flames over a theory. P.O. Ackley was a third-rate gunsmith, first-rate theorist, and an inexperienced hunter who emphasised the concept of 'efficiency'. But his cartridges were anything but "efficient" considering the time, wear, and materials necessary to fire-form, not to mention ammunition availability problems, plus the abysmal resale value of rifles chambered for wildcat cartridges in general. Yes, you can build a .330-06-AI (et al) that's lighter than a .338 Win. Mag. You can also load 200 gr. bullets in the regular old .30-06 and accomplish all that you'll accomplish with a .338-06 in the real world. You can also lose a few pounds from your waist, spend quality time in the gym, and carry the 1 lb.-heavier .338 Win. Mag. and not suffer on the steepest mountains. One thing's for certain: The .338 Win. Mag. is a better-balanced cartridge than any of the '06-based .338 wildcats; it'll do all that those same cartridges will do in terms of performance plus much more, and as a little ol' bonus it's standard, available, in-demand, and retains it's value much better as well. In my opninion, when you go above the .308 bore, your asking more out of the .30-06 case than it is optimally capable of producing. That's what the manufacturers have long since found out, and that's what most hunter also have come to realize. AD | ||
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Pragmatism has its place but fla3006 is talkng about doing something for the fun of it, not planning the trip of a lifetime around a particular cartridge. People ought to lighten up and let him have his fun. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Maybe. But some of us are happy with what it does because it kills well, perhaps better than the venerable '06, at the distances that we actually shoot at. It might be a little slower and so sacrifice a bit of performance at long range, but since I don't shoot at long range, I don't experiance a lack of performance. Neither do I worry about whether the bullet will stand the strain of popping into the shoulder ball joint at 20 yards because I don't have the excess energy acting on the bullet that the increased velocity of the manglum provides. It is a caliber that is fun to plink with and lighter to carry in the field. That translates for me and some others to more time in the field during the "off" season, playing with it. Then when big game season finally rolls around, I've got much more field practice with it and can place my bullet more accurately. Sometimes more isn't better. All skill is in vain when a demon pisses on your gunpowder. | |||
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Really guys, a .338wm is a .338-06 plus 50-75yds. So it really comes down to what you want to hunt w/. I shoot both & there is a diff. in recoil, not a lot but noticeable. You can make a very trim 8# .338-06 that holds 1-2 extra rounds & just get 50yds closer. I've taken couple dozen or so animals w/ mine & I think it kills a bit better than the 06, just my impression. The .338wm hits harder for sure but @ a price. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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One of Us |
I built the 338-06 AI, and I like it. It's what I wanted, and it shoots very, very well. It definitely recoils less than my buddy's 338WM, as we were shooting them side by side. Mine ended up right at 8 lbs all set up with a 24" bbl and a scope. Heck, that's what my new 25-06 rifle weighs! It's not heavy to carry, but still heavy enough to be easy on the shoulder. Plus you can get nice aerodynamic bullets in the 200-250 gr range. You can't do that with the heavy bullets in the 30-06. The heavies there are more of the round nose variety. Not that round noses are bad, just that their BC leaves something to be desired when shooting at longer ranges. Besides - it's what you want that matters. If you want it, do it. Now that the 338-06 is a factory round, I'm not sure I would do the AI on it. Back when any form of the 338-06 was a wildcat, it made sense to go all the way to the AI design, as there was nothing to lose and more speed/case life to possibly gain. I don't agree that going above the .30 bore is asking too much from the 06 case size. Witness the 338-06, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, 318 WR, etc. The benefit of well-shaped bullets above 200 grs while maintaining magazine capacity and shootability is a real thing for me. Besides, if I push things just a tad, I can safely get 3000 fps from the 200 gr Hornady in my 338-06, which puts it real close to the 338 WinMag... ============================== "I'd love to be the one to disappoint you when I don't fall down" --Fred Durst | |||
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Allan, This is not said with any disrespect. But that is an elitist kind of answer. I am never ever going to loose my luggage in Africa, because I am never going to be going to africa or anywhere else 10,000 miles to hunt from home. So whatever caliber I am hauling to hunt isn't going to make a difference. All I know about Africa, is what I read, but it strikes me that If I was going to go there and hunt, instead of a 338 Mag, I'd be carrying a 375 H & H. NOt based on the merits of the calibers so much as availability of ammo, when their laws are strict on what you can bring in or not. I could really care less also what the head stamp on my ammo says in my 338/06. I Handload my ammo, period, especially for hunting. MY brass either say 30/06 on them, or 280 Remington in a nickel case. It says 280 on it because I don't own a 280 so I know it is for my 338/06. I own 2 of the 338 Mags also, but since using a 338/06, I just don't see the where the 338 Mag " will do in terms of performance plus much more" As a final, How do you figure Parker Ackley was a 3rd rate gunsmith and an inexperienced hunter? I don't see the need for an Ackley cartridge, but it does strike me as elitest to say such negativity for a man whose reputation is just the opposite of your observations. Did you personally know him to be able to make these observations or statements? Just curious is all, cheers and good shooting seafire  | |||
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I would go for the .338 Hawk if I could get one done. But untill someone up here takes on the line I'll have to wait. I checked out the standard version and the ack. improved too , but the Hawk kicks butt on them both. Like the man said liter rifle and another shell in the mag. and very close to same ballistics. No belt, no fireforming. Just buy the brass from Fred. I'm kinda surprised these cartridges have'nt stirred up more interest in the US actually. | |||
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