I have been searching for a while on the net looking for information on the cartrige. The most i can find is the description of it along with a one sentence history of it. more searching found this website, and a confusing page listing reloading data for it, along with a sentence saying the gun was a custom mauser by O'neal. That makes two.
This seems like the best place to ask about the rifle. lets pretend I or someone I know acquired a custom fn mauser by O'neal in this caliber, along with a few boxes of barns and nosler 333 bullets, and old rcbs dies.
The question is, can you put a value on this rifle? And should I keep using the bullets from the old boxes or attempt to find some new ones?
the few I used from the open boxes grouped fairly well with the 2.5x on it. more testing will be done once I get a 3-9x
no, its not for sale.
thanks for any info in advance

The grand daddy of the 338-06. The data can be worked up using current 338-06 data. As far as I know, only Woodleigh makes bullets for it, although you could probably size down 338 bullets for practice (I've done this w/ .429" 44mags for use in my .423" 404jeffery). Sounds like a nice old rifle that should be out shooting again soon.

i forgot if i mentioned, we already did load some from some lake city 30-06 brass (so not to confuse a headstamp) and we did find a bit of info on the 338-06 that we used. it groups better than i can shoot for now with the 2.5x scope on it.
does anyone know if any of the major bullet manufacturers will do a special run of bullets for a fair price? the boxes of bullets dated from the 60's seem too rare to shoot.

also, ill get some photos later and you guys can tell me what you think

There was an article about in in Guns & Ammo many years ago when Keith was editor. The thing "died" when bullets for the Jeffrey became obsolete and his source for them dried up. But they then replicated the cartridge using .338 bullets.

I had though that, in fact, it was just the .30-06 reloaded with .333 bullets...to copy the 318 Westley Richards...but I may be wrong. I can't recall the 333 OKH being a belted case at all!

Or am I confusing it with the 330 OKH or something of a similar name?

There was a 333 O.K.H. on the '06 case. There was a 333 O.K.H. Belted on the 300 H&H case, and there was a 334 O.K.H. also on the 300 H&H case. The 334 was simply a larger capacity version of the 333 Belted.

If I had original Barnes 333 bullets I would not shoot them. All of the old Barnes bullets have collector value.

Ray

There is a short write up and reloading information for 250 and 275 gr. bullets in the 8th edition of "Cartridges of the World."

It also identifies the belted version as the 334 OKH.

as just-a-hunter said the belted 333 was a shortened 300h&h mag.
also, jack o'connor makes a reference to it in one of his books.
i think theres a lot more history to this rifle but its going to take a while to gather it all from what people know

I only loaded up some of the ones in the open boxes that were slightly tarnished. steel wool got them looking good.
i have about 5 or 6 boxes of barns 250's and about the same of nosler 275's still in the shipping crate.
not sure if im going to sell them or not.

If it is an original O'neil built OKH, I'll up just-a-hunters bid with kidney, both my eye teeth AND my right testicle!!
I have been a Elmer fan since I was about 12 yrs old.....1970...

LeRoy

unfortunately the current owner is a big fan also.
I'll keep this thread going a while till I get enough information out of the net.
does anyone know if there would be a specific scope o'neil would have used wtih the rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
I was also going to add, 338-06 load data will probably get you real close to what the 333 will require as far as powder. Of course, start with a few grains less and work up.

Todd

As far as I have been able to determine, the .338/'06 and the .333 OKH are essentiall identical in all respects excpt that the bullets for the .333 OKH are .005" smaller in diameter than bullets for the .338/'06. Starting loads for either with the same powders and bullet weights need not be at all different.

In fact, a .333 OKH that has sufficient "slop" in the chamber throat to the extent that a .338" bullet would freely drop through the neck of a case fired in that rifle could be used with .338" bullets with absolutely no trouble or excessive pressures at all. The same goes for shooting .323" bullets in loose-throated 7,8X57J rifles....

The key factor in such matters is that the bullet must be freely released from the case neck on firing. If it is, then an oversize bullet will always be swaged to groove diameter before the pressure peak occurs.

i mic'd the muzzle as best i could and i got .330 to .332 and i think thats a bit too small for a 338 bullet

http://www.accuratereloading.com/333okh.html
this is the first page that got me back to this site, and i was wondering if anyone could find who wrote this and/or whose gun that is just to see if its the same as the one i got. i'll try to get pics tomorrow

well here you go. i didnt have my camera but my phone worked. i cant get a close up of the engraving, all im missing is the pic of "c h o'neal" on the top of the barrel





the stock is fit very well, and it has inletted sling studs and a metal pistol grip cap, and a metal buttplate.
what do you guys think?

If you read some of Elmer Keiths books you will learn alot.Hell I was There,Keiths Rifles foe Large Game,Guns and Ammo for Big Game,he too a 333 OKH to Africa but the 300 gr bullets were too soft.I missed a 338-378 KT in Alaska.A friend got it and rechambered it to 338-378 Weatherby.Elmer Keith was way ahead of his time.

I'll try to post this as a link to a copy of 1966 Handloader article on the OKH cartridges:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?magid=540


If the link does not work, it is on the Wolfe Publishing site, look for back issues of Handloader, December 1966.

James

thanks a lot for that link. ill read that later
correcting myself here, i meant to say speer not nosler bullets in my first post, and the rifle had cm o'neal on it not ch... i tend to forget stuff by the time i get home haha.
i dare ask any collector to pm me a value for the bullets or the rifle... the thing shoots too well

also, im weeping over the ad in that for the 1903a3 for 45 bucks

quote:

Originally posted by sagi:
i mic'd the muzzle as best i could and i got .330 to .332 and i think thats a bit too small for a 338 bullet

http://www.accuratereloading.com/333okh.html
this is the first page that got me back to this site, and i was wondering if anyone could find who wrote this and/or whose gun that is just to see if its the same as the one i got. i'll try to get pics tomorrow

Miking the muzzle will tell you NOTHING at all regarding whether or not you could use a .338" bullet in it. You have to use a fired case that has NOT been resized, and see if a .338" bullet will or will not slide through the case neck into the inside of the case easily. If it does, you can shoot .338" bullets in that gun. If bullets WILL NOT just slide in w/o using any force, you can't.!

WOW what a gun!!! If it could only talk! I have a copy of "Big Bore Reloads" and in an article by Hagel he talks about the beginning of the 338 winchester and the 338 OKH and the Belted 333 OKH. WHAT A GUN!!

Eterry

You can also get 333 bullets from Hawk, in various weights and jacket thickness.

Congratulations on a terrific find with this rifle. I hope you get to hunt it hard and successfully.

A lot of people here don't like Hawk bullets due to the soft copper jackets. I've had nothing but good luck with them, with the caveat that the copper really does obturate the bore and grooves, leading to higher pressures for a given loading.
Don't just drop a Hawk bullet of the same weight into a case loaded with your favorite powder charge....there can be problems.

I can empathize with your project. I am completing a single shot (Wesson) rifle in 333 Jeffery Rimmed.
I'd like to think that there will a few less Rocky Mountain elk when I'm done.

Garrett

wow, thanks for finding me someone that makes the bullets. got a return email from speer and barnes saying they don't do custom orders. does anyone know if any other companies do custom orders?
were half way through a box of assorted reloads with the open boxes we have, and waiting till a 3-9x comes by to test further on. with a 2.5x scope i'll say its a good 4" group so far.
why do you say to not use the same data for hawk bullets? im currently using different data from modern books on 338/06 and keeping a grain under max at most.
it will probably see some hunting time if the day is nice, but it is the northwest and stainless compliments gore tex camo.
i'll keep this thread going as long as theres some people interested.
and i suppose i'll buy some of those bullets and check them out. thanks again for the find!

The reason not to start with a previous charge (from another bullet) while using the Hawks is because the pressures will jump higher with the Hawk.

Two reasons are most likely responsible (and I'll tell you the one I think most likely first): The propellent gases hit the rear of the bullet and acceleration begins. The rear of the bullet moves first (we are speaking microseconds of course) and like all objects at rest the middle mass of the projectile expands slightly.
That's good for accuracy, as the bullet engages the grooves of the rifling very well, and the soft copper jacket is not too hard on the metal.
But, normally some of the propellant gases jet past the bullet, and the pressure falls off rapidly.
The Hawk bullet has deformed more, plugging the bore and grooves more completely, and the pressure curve stays higher, longer.

I once substitued a Hawk .375 bullet (same weight) on a very moderate charge of RL-15 in my 375 wildcat, and promptly blew out the primer pocket and had to hammer open the bolt with a rubber mallet. My mistake.

The other contributing factor may just be increased friction from the type of copper used for the jacket, but I'm less certain about that.

The Hawk bullets are very accurate for me, they just require slightly less powder charges for a given velocity.
I've taken kudu, eland, moose, impala and a few other animals with them.
I wouldn't use them on an animal larger than an eland as there are better constructed bullets for such applications.

Don't let people here talk you out of using them. The first elk you shoot with one will tell you the story.

Garrett

thanks for the info, i'll keep that in mind. i'll probably order a box or two soon