Thought I'd post a pic of the target I shot today.The rifle is a Win mod. 94 that I bought used.I still haven't figured it out yet...it had screws that needed tightening just about everywhere and it is sometimes impossible to pull the trigger because the lever will not disengage the safety.I was shooting 150 gr Win. PPFN bullets,loaded with Varget powder in Win cases.At 100yds the rifle shoots really large groups off the bench with crazy fliers.Groups can be as large as 5 or more inches at 100 and two inches at 50 and all in the same hole at 25yds.I am going to try some IMR 4895 again next time.Here is the target. [URL= ]100yds offhand,open sights[/URL] It might be interesting to point out that the three shots furthest to the left of the target,on the edge of the paper,are the three shot group fired of the bench(one hole is seen just over my thumb).This is how I will sight in my hunting rifles...so they are zeroed offhand and shoot around 6 inches left off the bench.

If 4895 does not work out try some IMR 3031.

Also I would give the barrel a good cleaning with J&B or Rem Clean.

Recently I have been playing with IMR 4064, maybe try it if you got some or can find some. I was shooting 110 and 150 grains and gettin O.K. groups, the next loads I'm going to be loading is to see if I could get any better groups. I shoot a 94 AE with a 4X scope.

I have shot several different 30/30 rifles, Marlin and Winchester, at 100 yards, iron sights, with factory ammo and all of them have shot less than 3 inches at 100 yards. Many of them under 2 inches.

Have you tried factory ammo???

I think I'd look at the trigger before I worried too much about powder choice. Probably some other things that need looking at, too. How's the crown? Bedding? Stock bolts? Sights? Forearm clearance?

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
I think I'd look at the trigger before I worried too much about powder choice. Probably some other things that need looking at, too. How's the crown? Bedding? Stock bolts? Sights? Forearm clearance?

Looks like I need to take a better look at the rifle.I know almost nothing about lever actions.At one point the rifle would not get on target at all,until I noticed the screw loose on the steel piece holding the forearm stock and barrel together.

I posted this pic to show the difference between POI, shooting offhand with open sights at 25yds,and off the bench at the same distance.Group #1 is a two shot group off the bench and #2 is a multy shot group offhand.I repeated this test and had the same results. This test showed that POI offhand is two inches to the left compared to POI off the bench,using open sights, at 25 yds.I get a 6 to 7 inch difference at 100yds.Please ignore all the other bullet holes on this target as they are not mine and serve no purpose.[URL= ]25 yds[/URL]

nugman,I enjoyed reading your post.The Varget load I was using was taken from a reloading site on the web, using the same bullets and is supposed to be a really accurate load.I think they got a group of below an inch at 100yds.I tried IMR 4895 today and got worst groups.I'll be going back to Varget.The rifle has a ding on the crown right where the lands are.This has worried me.I thought about what you said about a change in POI caused by a different LOP.I have shot the rifle off the bench with and without a sandbag between the stock and my shoulder and this did not change POI for me.I have shot a couple of other rifles offhand sometimes with thick layers of winter clothing and this has also not caused my POI to change.

Many rifles shoot different offhand than off the bench. And you don't know how much of that is the rifle vs the shooter unless you have a few others shoot both offhand and off the bench. I believe it was O'Conner (or was it Ackley?) who used to advocate sighting in rifles from a sitting position, because that is how you generally shot in the field, or is close enough.

I sight mine in on the bench holding on to the fore end. It seems to mimic the standing or "off the sticks position". I've checked it many times with many rifles and there's not a nickel's worth of difference.
I usually try them seated too. I practice seated and off hand until I can put 10 shots in 8" off hand and the same in 4" seated at 100 yds. That's as good as I can do at almost 70.

Wow nice pattern!!! Sorry and I feel for your frustration.

My experience with the Model 94 in 30-30 has not been great. It seems to me to be a rifle with a light weight and a decent amount of recoil for the downrange performance. Maybe that's a function of the stock design. I've only been able to get groups in the 3"-4" size with the one that I had for a short time. I ended up thinking that it was a good horse/truck gun for use at close distance when the opportunity came up.

I have a Marlin 1895 45-70 Cowboy with a 26" that will bring groups in at 1.5" on a good day with a good shooter. If you're sold on the caliber perhaps a different manufacturer would be the way to go.

Good luck to you.

I have 16 "94's" and 3 "336's" the marlin is a more accurate gun and IMO better made. I hunt with the marlin and look at the winchesters.

I get a similar shift in POI when I am shooting my scoped 308 at two hundred yds.I sight in the rifle off the bench to hit bullseye and the POI shifts to the right when I shoot it offhand.[URL= ] scoped 308 200yds [URL= ]a[/URL] This becomes exagerated when I shoot with open sights at only 100yds.

Are you cocking the rifle when you shoot of hand? You wouldn't be the first. Most people do to some degree. When you mounted your scope how did you level the cross hairs? If you did it by shouldering the gun and twisting the scope until it looked right builds in your natural cocking. It dosen't take much to move two inches at 100 yds. Have a friend look at the way you naturally shoulder the gun.....Just a thought.........Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
I have 16 "94's" and 3 "336's" the marlin is a more accurate gun and IMO better made. I hunt with the marlin and look at the winchesters.

Thanks Tapper2,I'll keep that in mind!