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I took my new cz 9.3 to the range today and it shot just as well as I've heard everybody mention on this site, so no surprise there. However, I was again pleasantly surprised by the performance/accuracy of my BLR 358 win mag shooting factory loaded 200 grained silver tips. A couple of questions... 1) Can I, or more likely a smith, do a trigger job on a BLR? The trigger is heavy and has bad creep, but for some reason I've always been under the impression that BLR triggers can't be tampered with. Thanks for the help here. 2) I know this rig is perfect for pigs and other "bush" hunts, but why couldn't it be used on anything else other than DG. Isn't it flat enough for African pg, and doesn't it hit hard enough for grizz at close enough ranges? Maybe I'm asking too much of the .358 Win mag, but do I really need the extra velocity of a 358 norma mag, or am I covered with my little BLR? Thanks fellas for any thoughts on the .358 win. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | ||
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OK....I give up....what's that? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Well a 358Win gets 2490 with a 200 the 358Norma 2850 with a 250gr. A 358Win would not be my choice for PG much less a Grizz but to each his own. Should have looked it up not gone by memory. Factory 358Norma with a 250 is 2750 not 2850. The 358W was from the Winchester site. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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MY BLR 358 WCF (not a mag cartridge) gets 2420 with a 250-grain Speer handload. That is just a little shy of the performance of a 300-grainer in .375 H&H loads. "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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No flies on that. It's just me but I would prefer a flatter shooting choice for a PG rifle and prefer to hit a Grizz harder. There are any number of rifles that "would work" for most hunting they just might not be the first or best choice. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Seems like half the folks here are from Austin or Houston. I think with a little experience you should come back to us and say yeah the .358 will do the job. Like your rifle my BLR has a terrible trigger that I would want fixed before any serious trip to Africa is taken. I would also get a small base die for any hand loads you plan to use. My BLR will just barely chamber handloads loaded with a standard set of dies due to the tight chamber. The tight chambers may be the source of the good accuracy with these rifles. | |||
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My .358 BLR was about as accurate as a thrown rock, but I fixed that with a little bit of tinkering.  The trigger is still an abortion and my gunsmith said he would not touch one with a ten foot pole. Still, from the bench with loads it likes, it will out shoot my Ruger tang safety M77 by a very large margin.Mine is one of the earlier Japanese made guns with the magazine that hangs down below the receiver. The gun is nice but i kind of wish it would balanve a bit better. It's too muzzle light to my notion. Paul B. | |||
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My .358 BLR, lousy trigger & all, is a near moa performer with good handloads. It favors 225 Sierras or Partitions at 2500+ fps, or 250 HotCores or Grand Slams at 2400+ fps. Getting sufficient powder into the case has not been a problem since switching to TAC & Fed 215s. BLRs seem to have tight chambers as a rule, but I have never had to resort to small base dies. Before ditching your standard dies, check your case lengths, & trim if necessary. Extra length can cause chambering problems. | |||
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What powder are you using? It wouldn't be RL15, would it? Lou **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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Well...not wanting to rain on people's parades but having reloaded and shot a 358 win for 10 years... 1) getting 2400+ with a 250 grn slug from the 20 inch bbl of a BLR would require a very warm load well over book max and SAAMI specs for pressure. I would be surprised if it can be done...2320 is more like it 2) the trigger is heavy because it travels with the lever and about 4 lbs is at light as you can get it contact Fred Zeglin in Casper, WY he works on them. 3) With respect to PG in Africa or quite frankly just about any game anywhere inside of 200 yds a 225 grn .358 nolser partition leaving the muzzle at 2400 plus hits with a wallup. I have taken zebra, waterbuck, kudu, 2 cow elk, and a 1/2 dozen pigs witht that load and all were dead witin probably 50 yards. Talk to people who hunt with a 358 and they will tell you it hits with authority. How many animals do you think can tell the difference between 36 grains, 8/1000, of an inch and 100 fps...because that is the difference between a 286 grn 9,3x62 and 250 grn 358 win. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have a couple 358 BLRs. The 358 it does not get the respect it deserves. Both mine are extremely accurate. The 358 is one of those cartridges that people are quick to dismiss passed on the cartridge data. Take a couple head of game with one and you will realize the cartridge performs way better than it should. | |||
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The 358 Win is the Rodney Dangerfield of cartridges... "It don't get no respect". Pity, because it is an excellent short action hunting cartridge. AS to the BLR, I have never owned one, but the triggers on them I have pulled seemed OK to me for a hunting rifle. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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No, Lou. It is WW748. 51.5 grains of it. The max load (from Ken Waters) was 54 grains, but I did not have to use that much for excellent accuracy. My BLR was also of the early type. Trigger was satisfactory. "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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El Deguello, Are you sure? 51.5 grns of W748 is about 5 grains over max for 250 grn slug. I have never read Waters book but 54 grains in 358 win case would be a very compressed load I don't even think you could get the bullet to stay in the case. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Winchester calls 46.2 max at 50500 CUP and 2250 FPS. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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**************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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"Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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Nice to see a thread on the .358! I only load 200gr Hornadys in my BLR for Whitetails. Great accuracy at hte range, and a great woods rifle/cartridge IMO. For 250gr loads I use my Whelen. | |||
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I have the 338 Ultra Mag and it will shoot the Nosler 250gr bullet at 2975 FPS. Good luck with your 358 Win. Mag. | |||
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. The problem with 748 is it falls on it,s face when it gets cold ., same as 760 does, and BL-C 2 ,build up a load in the summer that gives a good velocity and trajectory and come late fall you loose 150 fps ....... It may not turn the 358 Win into a 35 Remington , but not too far off ... I had the same problem with IMR 3031 ....I liked IMR 4320 , 4064 and 4895 and H 4895 . H 4895 is an Extreme powder so it is temp stable ..... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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I have nothign against the 358W. Never owned one. Just after reading this I got a laugh. How many of us have gone out and bought the new and latest magnum this or that to get that extra 100 fps. Then later when we are talking about our old favorites made the comment " heck no way any animal would ever tell the difference in a 100fps slower impact" Bottomline is any and all animals that we shoot could just as easily be taken by a 2 or 3 rifle combination. But, it sure wouldn't be as much fun as have a safe full of toys.  As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Neil Jones can tune a BLR trigger. | |||
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Muchos gracias. I need a super dooper ultra remington rail gun to shoot elk, deer and pigs like I need a monster truck to impress chicks.  "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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I believe more grizzlies have been shot with 30-06s than any other caliber. A 358 Win should be plenty of medicine for anything in North America. The BLR, especially the original non-lightweight models, were well made sweet handling rifles. Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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. Perhaps you have never had a 1000 lb bear within 20 feet of you in thick brush stickin it's nose into your business ...... But it is a great round .. Just kindof little for some jobs ... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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I agree it's small for some jobs, but I feel it only comes up short on range. I've actually decided to sell mine and keep my 35 Whelen because it has more versatility. That said, I don't think a grizz would know the difference between the two inside 100 yards. Personally, I'd prefer my 9.3 or 404 (in the wrks) inside 20 feet with a big bear. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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And even 46.2 grains is a load I would definitely have to work up slowly to...in pretty much any rifle except maybe a strong falling block single-shot. I have owned and shot .358 Winchester rifles for about 40 years...mainly Winchester M70 FWs and BLRs. The hottest I ever got to was 45.0 grains and 250 gr. Winchester Silvertips. That was beginning to get too rough on brass life to please me, so now I would shoot lighter loads than that. It is true some barrels will give considerably different velocities than others firing the same loads, so I believe pretty much anything anyone tells me about their velocities, so long as I know them to have and use a chronograph. But in my own particular guns, I would certainly be careful using more than about 44 grains of 748 as an everyday load for a gun I planned to shoot much. I'd thoroughly inspect the brass after every firing, carefully. | |||
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Actually a 9.3x62 should be able to reach 2650 fps with a 250 grain bullet. That's the load that John Barsness uses. 250-300 more fps than the .358(a damn fine cartridge in itself). | |||
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Hunts...none of the 9,3x62 owners I know reach that kinda velocity and I have never seen published data anywhere that provides those kinds of velocities. Can you please tell me where the John Barsness article is published... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My 9,3x74R loads with 286gr bullets are under 2250fps. I have taken kudu at a little over 300 yards. Several deer, wild pigs and 2 black bear. I have taken a lot of plains game, including 24 Zebra and a Giraffe. I have also taken my biggest cape buff [in body and horn], and an elephant at five yards, both with one shot. With the possible exception of the giraffe, cape buff, and elephant, the 358 Win could do as well IMHO. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Mike, I don't get 2650 fps out of a 9.3x62/250 grs combination either. I'm not saying it is not possible, on the Internet it seems pretty much anything is possible. John Barsness had at least the following to say about the 9.3x62:
- mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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