Isn’t the best calibre/action the one he has sitting on the shelf and can make a ready sale/profit with?

Gun shop doesn’t equal expert in all thing relating to firearms, his is in business for a profit, you can’t please everyone all the time, but presumably he has enough customers at his level of knowledge to sustain his business.

While I like an educated chat in a gun shop and those shops get nearly al my business, if what I want is the right price (usually a second hand item) the idiot gets limited business.

Canadian,

Next you come over to Johannesburg I'll take you to a shop where you will solve all your problems...

The best of whatever you need is always on this guy's shelf, so he always has a sale going. Of course "the best" has meant different things as the stock levels change and the agencies he (miraculously manages to keep) change over the years.

I took a visiting US hunter to a few SA gun shops one time as he wondered what they were like in South Africa. This guy so embarrassed me that I never went back to that store.

Since he has BS'd one of my less informed friends all in the name of a sale.

Like you it disgusts me that he seems to actually do quite well. Maybe I'm just a crochety bastard... but I get on well with myself

In Germany it is much worse: if you do not want to buy a Blaser a great majority (of skilled!) gunsmiths is disappointed that you are looking for something else. But this attitude softens- which is good.

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
In Germany it is much worse: if you do not want to buy a Blaser a great majority (of skilled!) gunsmiths is disappointed that you are looking for something else. But this attitude softens- which is good.

Frank, We have the same thing here. A lot of gun store people have their favorite brands and they will look down upon anyone who doesn't buy "their" brand.

new shop opened in town. thought i'd check 'em out! needed a holster for a small pistol i had. i knew what i could get it for online and was willing to pay more to get it local. I walked in and checked out some of the stuff the guy had. said i was looking for a holster, had the manufacturer part number and everything. told the guy if he could get it in the door for $10 over the price i found online i was in. he told me it would be too much hassle to look it up and order it, that it wouldn't be worth his time and that i should just get it online. i haven't been back since!

thecanadian

Back to your original post, I would like to hear your reasons for the 338 EDGE over the 338 Win Mag, or the 338 LAPUA.

Also tell us more about the build, barrel length, optics etc.

And what are you going to use it for?

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
thecanadian

Back to your original post, I would like to hear your reasons for the 338 EDGE over the 338 Win Mag, or the 338 LAPUA.

Also tell us more about the build, barrel length, optics etc.

And what are you going to use it for?

The reason for going with the 338 edge over anything else has entirely to do with availability. It comes down with the simple reason that 300 RUM brass is easy to find. I have found it as range brass, my local store sells it, and my bother in law shoots it. I have yet to find 338 RUM brass any ware; I would have to order it. Since I am going to use this for long range target and the occasional coyote (1200yds) I am going to use 300gr SMK’s or the Berger equivalent. Seating those long bullets in the 338win mag case would really put a hamper on velocity. I do like the 338 Lapua, but I would have to open up the bolt face to make it fit. Several gunsmiths have also expressed their concerns on putting that fat of a case in a savage action, Lapua brass is also expensive. I know that it would be a valid to point out that I don’t need a 338 to do what I have described; the fact of the matter is that I just want one. That being said here is what I am planning on building:
Savage long action 110 with magnum bolt face
SSS trigger
McMillan A-5 stock
Brux 30’’ barrel in a sendero contour
Fluted bolt
Sightron SIII 8-32x56 Fine Crosshair
ARC rings
Farrell 20MOA Base
I don’t know if I will put a muzzle break on it, I plan on shooting it first.

Candian


I have seen some long shots taken with this caliber, you will like it.

Recoil is stiff but thats the price you pay for that type of performance.



Cal30

Years ago, I once had a customer come to the gun counter and ask if the store had any 12 gauges. I was standing in front of about 150+ in display racks at the time. I also had a customer wanting to buy a 3.5" 12 gauge for grouse hunting because the 2.75 and 3 inch shells "just weren't killing them".

As said, idiocy happens on both sides of the counter. I have experienced both.

I have had more gun shop owners kill a sale because of " their right" to my money.

Or just by making stuip comments.

One was don't handle the guns unless your going to buy.

Another was you don't want that cailber a 06 is just as good he had both in stock.

Some shop owners belive its their right to be nasty to cusomers because they are the owner.

It might be but they do not get my money.

Just because you know or think you know about guns doesn't mean you know about selling or people.

I always thought if you want to have people give you their money it pays to be nice to them.

quote:

Originally posted by 375er:
Years ago, I once had a customer come to the gun counter and ask if the store had any 12 gauges. I was standing in front of about 150+ in display racks at the time. I also had a customer wanting to buy a 3.5" 12 gauge for grouse hunting because the 2.75 and 3 inch shells "just weren't killing them".

As said, idiocy happens on both sides of the counter. I have experienced both.

What the frist cusomer was saying would you please tell me what you have in stock and show them to me and if you didn't you most likely missed the sale.

I hope you sold the guy his 3.5 inch grouse gun that was what he wanted.

I was looking at a double 470 and the salemen did is best to talk me out of it.

Saying stuff like the cailber is to big the gun to hevi ammo is expensive.

I have never could figue out is why people who are in the busness of selling things find reasons not to sell them.

P Dog Shooter

My abbreviated versions don't quite tell the whole story. You had to be there......
Actually, the first guy bought two 12 gauges and the second guy happily walked out of the store with a 3.5" over/under plus ammo. Keep in mind the job of a sales person is to ask enough questions to appropriately help the customer. You don't always win long term customers by selling them what they think they want. They come back later, pissed off that you sold them a bill of goods instead getting them the right tools for the job. I would have gladly sold you a 470 double at the time as I appreciate them myself. However if you wanted it for a 1000 yard target rifle my conscious would have gotten in the way. Sales gets to be a delicate balancing act sometimes. The best business is repeat business and that only comes with trust in both directions.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
The RETARD that wants to buy "The Brown One" when describing the rifle she looked at 2 weeks ago with her husband, left PISSED that we didn't know which one "The Brown One" was, when she came back 2 weeks later.

Sounds like you missed a golden opportunity to sell her a brown rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Slowpoke, I think a few of your most brilliant customers have since moved to Alaska and opened their own gunshops.

Sad but true Phil!

The good thing about living in Eagle River is the guys and gals at Boondocks treat you decently and think they know better than the customer.

Haven't really had much reason to partonize the Anchorage stores, specially as they more often than not exude the "we know best" attitude.

Everything the gun shop owner said was true.... so was everything you said.

I dont argue with gun "experts". Except on this site haha.

Recently I was asking an employee at a local store with a hunting department if they would be getting any Winchesters in chambered in 264. He then started on about the 270 win. I just thought to myself, if I wanted a 270 I would be asking about that.

quote:

Originally posted by 375er:
P Dog Shooter

My abbreviated versions don't quite tell the whole story. You had to be there......


Keep in mind the job of a sales person is to ask enough questions to appropriately help the customer. You don't always win long term customers by selling them what they think they want. They come back later, pissed off that you sold them a bill of goods instead getting them the right tools for the job. I would have gladly sold you a 470 double at the time as I appreciate them myself. However if you wanted it for a 1000 yard target rifle my conscious would have gotten in the way. Sales gets to be a delicate balancing act sometimes. The best business is repeat business and that only comes with trust in both directions.

BINGO! We have a winner!

Example I can come up with easily is the guy that HAD TO have a sharps in 45-120. Bought it on a day I wasn't there, we had the same model in 45-70 and 45-120. Customer didn't handload, neither we, nor anyone else I knew of in town (Phoenix) sold ammo over the counter for 45-120. Customer was not interested in learning to reload.

I told him when he came back to see me looking for ammo that he was going to have to order it from Buffalo Arms website, was only place I knew of to get it. Customer was out of his head pissed when he saw the ammo prices for 45-120. He did no research at all in advance, just thought it "sounded cool". Thought he was going to have an anuerism (sp?) when he couldn't return the rifle (company policy, signs EVERYWHERE-over gun counter, under gun counter all over the checkout and customer service areas). National chain store, corporate policy, didn't give us ANY wiggle room on that rule.

I'm sure we lost that customer forever by simply selling him WHAT HE ASKED FOR!

If I had been there during the sale, I would have asked enough questions of him to "find" what was best for him. I would have done my level best to talk him OUT of the 45-120 and into the 45-70, which we, and a bunch of other stores in town sold ammo for.

Who knows, maybe he would have even come on here and started a "sad day" thread of his own. But, at least he wouldn't have bought an $1800 rifle he couldn't shoot.

So who would have been right then, hmmmm??

Courtesy costs nothing. The entire world could try to apply that.

I have just about stopped going to gunshops and gun shows because I have a low tolerance for incompetence, pompous attitudes and "commandos". My favorites are the "holier than thou's" at Griffin and Howe and the "commandos" that want to tell me about SF and what I need for self defense.

There are still a lot of great gun shops that employ good people. I know of several and we keep in touch. Its nice to get that call: "..we got this in today and I know this is something you like..."

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I don't know what the problem is. It sounds just like the responses you would get if you posted your inquiry on the AR Forums.

Damn you beat me to it!!!

I had a experience of that once, had a .300 Win Mag needed ammo, went into the store asking about it he said ".300 what ?"

We have a local buffoon who is a real piece of work. This guy and his followers will participate in a discussion. At some point their eyes will glaze over and they will move into self-defined BS world where they rule. I walked into a shop where this individual held court with a German G41W rifle. This bozo stated it was "common." When asked were he replied "up north." More recently at a large chain store the clerk blamed the primer shortage on all the "fulminate of mercury is going to Iraq." I was told to never get into a braying contest with a jackass.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:

quote:

Originally posted by 375er:
P Dog Shooter

My abbreviated versions don't quite tell the whole story. You had to be there......


Keep in mind the job of a sales person is to ask enough questions to appropriately help the customer. You don't always win long term customers by selling them what they think they want. They come back later, pissed off that you sold them a bill of goods instead getting them the right tools for the job. I would have gladly sold you a 470 double at the time as I appreciate them myself. However if you wanted it for a 1000 yard target rifle my conscious would have gotten in the way. Sales gets to be a delicate balancing act sometimes. The best business is repeat business and that only comes with trust in both directions.

BINGO! We have a winner!

Example I can come up with easily is the guy that HAD TO have a sharps in 45-120. Bought it on a day I wasn't there, we had the same model in 45-70 and 45-120. Customer didn't handload, neither we, nor anyone else I knew of in town (Phoenix) sold ammo over the counter for 45-120. Customer was not interested in learning to reload.

I told him when he came back to see me looking for ammo that he was going to have to order it from Buffalo Arms website, was only place I knew of to get it. Customer was out of his head pissed when he saw the ammo prices for 45-120. He did no research at all in advance, just thought it "sounded cool". Thought he was going to have an anuerism (sp?) when he couldn't return the rifle (company policy, signs EVERYWHERE-over gun counter, under gun counter all over the checkout and customer service areas). National chain store, corporate policy, didn't give us ANY wiggle room on that rule.

I'm sure we lost that customer forever by simply selling him WHAT HE ASKED FOR!

If I had been there during the sale, I would have asked enough questions of him to "find" what was best for him. I would have done my level best to talk him OUT of the 45-120 and into the 45-70, which we, and a bunch of other stores in town sold ammo for.

Who knows, maybe he would have even come on here and started a "sad day" thread of his own. But, at least he wouldn't have bought an $1800 rifle he couldn't shoot.

So who would have been right then, hmmmm??

Could he have used 45/70 ammo in the 45/120? I know the case is significantly shorter and it will probably not be to accurate but it could be used.

"Could He" have used 45-70 ammo?

Yes. It would go in the chamber, and yes, you could get the block to close on it, and yes you could cock and pull the trigger, causing it to go "Bang".

Both rounds are actually tapered and not straight case as some believe. Thus, the 45-70 case would be unsupported along most of it's length while laying in a 45-120 chamber. Also, depending on what bullet was in the 45-70 case, you would likely have a wholly unsupported bullet from the time it left the case until it entered the throat in the 45-120 chamber.

While perhaps this combination in this instance is not truly dangerous, due to the lower pressures both cartridges operate under, it is far less than ideal. Not only are you firing 45-70 ammo, and not gaining any "benefit" of the 45-120 chambering, but you are guarantying a horribly inaccurate result. And, in this day of constant litigation, I would not recommend that, from a company standpoint, to anyone.

Begs the question, "Why?"


This was merely an illustration (and really happened) of the customer not always knowing what's "best" for them.

Bottom line was this guy would have been better served by the 45-70 chambering. I would have at least SHOWED him the prices for loaded ammo, and walked him into the ammo isle, before I let him do the paperwork on the 45-120, so that I knew that HE knew what he was in for.

If he was a sharps fan, and this was his third rifle, loaded his own ammo, and/or cast his own bullets, this would have been a non-issue, and I would have talked to him about his cool new rifle as I helped him fill out the paperwork.

Whether it's a gun or electronic equipment there is a good chance the potential buyer knows more about the product than the guy selling it. Especially true of big box stores.

There is a gun store near me that has an idiot owner. He is ex military, and you can't look at the rack for 3 minutes without him taking off on those who never served being unpatriotic asswipes wasting good breathing air. He has a real problem with the Amish. He waves the American flag mightily, but has a brand new Chinese tractor right out front. He settles down and then makes every effort to sell you whatever he has in stock, arguing with any objections. I used to go there for ammo, couldn't get to 1st base about a serious gun deal. Now I don't even bother for the ammo, it's just not worth it. I see him at the gas station and he's all "You don't stop by anymore". No, I don't.

Wouldn't it be great if everyone that comes into a gun store was totally knowledgeable as to what they want and all of the specs for that rifle/cartridge. Then gun clerks could be replaced by vending machines. And with some I've dealt with, that would be a vast improvement.
And, in a perfect world, the gun clerks would all be certified, experienced gun smiths with total knowledge of every gun ever made. And any question you asked would be promptly answered in a non-condecending manner with no attempt to play the "I'm knowledgable and you're a dork" game. Never would you have to deal with a clerk that was there simply because it was a job or his daddy owned the store.
I have always been under the impression that sales clerks were there to help the customer decide which brown one they wanted to buy and to help them understand that there is indeed a difference between a .300 Savage and a .300 WM.
It's been my experience that shops, of any sort, that have rude, arrogant, ill-informed clerks/owners don't stay in business long.
To get it said simply, the clerk is being PAID to be knowledgable and courteous, the customer is not. If you can't deal with an occassional customer that's having a bad day, or can't interact with someone without trying to make them feel stupid, maybe it would be best to go back to work at the car wash.

Rant over.

quote:

GENTLEMEN,

These are but a very few "RETARD" stories. I could go on for PAGES worth.

Trust me when I tell you that the idiots on the "customer side" of the counter have us outnumbered.

OK, RANT OFF.

Slim,
This is one of the most enjoyable post I've EVER read, so if you have more, please post. If you write a book, I'd buy it

Finman

I invite you to come by my shop. I won't try to sell you anything. But you can buy whatever you like. I have found several of my customers are more knowledgable than I about one thing or another. I consider myself a "Jack-of-all-trades" guy. I'm not an expert on any one thing but try to learn as much as I can about everything. Try staying here with me for a day, or 2. You will go away with a different perspective I promise you. I deal with many internet, Johnny-come-lately, experts. They have never actually owned one or shot one but they read that is was a certain way, and because it was on youtube or pick your website of choice, it has to be true, right.

I remember going into a gunshop one time in Granbury Texas and the guy who ran it had the policy that unless you were going to buy it, you could not handle it. That Is Pure .

Cabela's in Fort Worth pisses me off, not the whole store, just the Gun Department.

I don't run around looking like I just stepped out of the hunting Clothes department of their store. But the jokers that work there definitely rank customers by appearance.

Not every local yokel that walks in the door is a retard, and the management of such places need to do a better job of getting that point across.

The day I bought my .340 Weatherby Mark V at a shop on the werst side of Fort Worth one of the kids they had as a salesman saw me looking at the rifles and came back and started running a line of BS about what "I" needed, and when I informed him that I had both a .300 Weatherby anmd a .458 Win. Mag.,he sort of disappeared into the woodwork.

I like a salesman that sets back with their mouth shut until they notice that I am looking at something in particular, then I want them to get involved.

An ability by both parties to communicate goes a long way. I,m usualy a repeat customer and a creature of habit. I am willing to pay a bit more for good customer service, find it neccessary on occasion to ask questions. I appreciate honest answers, even if thy are sometimes prefaced by a question.. I do come up with some hairball, fairly unpractical ideas on occasion..
Takes an investment of time on my part, and their,s, would like to think that leads to some mutual respect.
Try not be a pain in the ass, acknowledge the fact that if I,m waiting on a rifle on order, unfortunately, sometimes have just as much patience as a kid at 5:45 Christmas morning..
Think they,ve probably got me figured out at the shops I do frequent. All they have to do is hand me something shiny and wait for my eyes to glaze over. A little time to bond with a gun , knife, whatever.. Its a lot easier for me to resist if I don,t actualy get my hands on it.

On the other hand, walked into a gun shop a few years back, guy behind the counter was a complete jack ass. Figured maybe he was just abrasive that day, wandered back in with my girlfriend a week later. He out did himself, acted like a complete dickhead. Away we went, with Ma Bear vowing never to go back in there.

Buy on average two, sometimes three guns a year. Occured to me the other day the gun shop that I do get guns from has probably gotten a lot of business from people who are unwilling to deal with the jack ass across town.
Too bad you can,t do a little comparison shopping with elected officials as easily..

quote:

I have always been under the impression that sales clerks were there to help the customer decide which brown one they wanted to buy and to help them understand that there is indeed a difference between a .300 Savage and a .300 WM.

And I think they are there to try and answer my questions IF I ask any.