The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Nosler Fail Safe bullets, 140gr 7mm???Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I always heard mixed reviews on these. It sounded like you had to really push them fast to make them work and accuracy was suspect. What says the hive? Any experience? Perry | ||
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I used Winchester Fail Safe in Africa and America many years ago with good success. Never heard of Nosler having bullet by that name. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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I used them on Texas Hill Country small deer, they work OK, deer ran up to a 100 yards sometimes and they didn't spoil much meat..I got the impression they might be a tad hard but those deer are so small its hard to say..but Nosler is a very dependable company, ask them might be your best bet..All I can say is they seemed to perform about like the WWPP, one of my favorite bullets, both had pass thrus and not much meat damage and killed well enough but Im not impressed by DRT, thats to inconsistent. a good blood trail impresses me. The best deer bullet Ive used is the cheap 130 gr. Speer..Just a plain cup and core thats deadly on deer size game, both whitetail, Coues, and Mule deer, it simply works and in a hurry. I used ww fail safes as I recall..today the Nosler Accubond is a awesome bullet in any caliberl. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ross Seyfried raved about the Fail Safe bullets. I bought a bunch of them in .284", .308" and .338", but have never used them! I guess I just had too many other bullets in those calibers at the front of the line. I have heard rumors that they sometimes failed to expand. Maybe a quality control issue? I understand that both Nosler and Winchester made them. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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When I bought my Sauer 200 06 it came with 2 boxes of factory Winchester Fail Safes. Guy said they were crazy accurate in the gun and as most sellers do said “shoots u see half an inch” Took a year or so to get it to the range and it put the first 3 rounds into 3/8ths if an inch. Took it elk hunting and it was a smasher. Only shot I could get was a quartering away shit at 227 yards destroyed the vitals and broke the offside shoulder. With I could find a couple hundred factory rounds. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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My father in law used the failsafe almost exclusively in the 7mm 160; 308 180; and 338 230 grain. He loved them used the 338 WM on elk and the 7mm 160 (STW) and 308 180 on deer and his one sheep. I have never shot them. | |||
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You get a better impression of any bullet when you consistently stick it in the right spot!! Ive shot too much camp meet in Africa with a solid to think otherwise..Head, neck. Break both shoulders is my favorite shot to take. Head shots can wound with broken jaws etc, neck shots can miss the spine. both shoulder shots that miss are still fatal, but you man have a 100 yard tracking job..Use enough gun. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Combined Technology was the partnership with Nosler and Winchester. There were definitely Fail Safe bullets for reloading with this CT label. I don't recall but later production Winchester Fail Safe ammunition may have also referenced CT (Combined Technology) on the boxes. I have some of the earlier Black Talon and Fail Safe factory loads in 375 H&H, 338 Winchester, 7mm Remington mag, and 270 Winchester. I think the 7mm Remington mag ammunition that I have is 160 grain. Which I do not recall firing any. But, the 270 Winchester 140 grain grouped very well in my son's M70 Featherweight. I was disappointed when they stopped producing these. | |||
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In my experience, shooting at targets. 270 and 338 calibers. Awful accuracy. Probably due to awful weight difference between bullets. As an example, I weighed all 25 bullets in a box, 270, 140 grain. Wright difference was about 4 grains??? From their construction, I would guess they would perform very well on game. But, I wonder who was the genius behind the idea of having so many different materials in a bullet! | |||
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I recall Speer had different metals, as did some European, never gave it much thought if they worked and they did it seems..It was just a different approach to controled expansion..I hear and have read on this AR blog, that Barnes, Noslers, corelokts and others are inaccurate, more BS, its the gun or the last nut behind the bull thas jerks the trigger.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I think the Speer bullet used a tungsten core. The benefit was a very stout soft point, that did not increase length like an all copper bullet. I wish I had got to play with that one. | |||
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I shot a huge bodied eland bull on the point of the shoulder quartering to me with a failsafe in 375 H&H. It broke the shoulder but traveled down the leg bone instead of going into the vitals. Got him, but took some doing. Nothing is 100%. | |||
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We tried shooting a 1 inch steel plate, to see what goes through. Only one that was a Speer Tungsten Core. Only the small Tungsten core went through. The rest of the bullet fell to pieces. This in a 375/404. | |||
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I've used the 180 grain 30 cal FailSafe on elk a few times (80 yards to 439 yards) since I have a 300 WSM that loves them. Used them once on a bear from a 300 Win Mag too, now that I think of it. They worked just fine every time so I have no complaints. I have never used them in any other caliber or weight so I cannot say how they'd perform. I was thinking it was a collaboration between Winchester and Nosler, hence the Combined Technology moniker. I still have a few boxes and would not hesitate to use them on elk/moose/bear. Zeke | |||
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By coincidence, I have 2 or 3 boxes of 140 gr .270 Win bullets, and I weighed 41. The average of the 41 was 140.2 gr, SD 0.2 gr. I bought mine packaged in Midway boxes. They were dirt cheap because they'd been discontinued. I wonder if the bullet evolved during its brief lifetime: it seems reasonable to me that you had an early iteration that was far from perfect, and mine was a later iteration when most of the variability bugs had been worked out. Maybe they were discontinued because the FSs won a bad reputation owing to the weight variability. (Or maybe it was a cost/benefit thing.) And maybe I got far less variable bullets because they had ironed out their problems. I was able to work up a few loads (3 shot groups) that were about 1 MOA (which is about as well as my old Mod. 70 would do). | |||
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I used to handload the failsafe in 338 based on the positive press from Ross Seyfried. My recollection of them was good, though availability in Australia could be sporadic, so I didnt shoot many animals with them. A friend of mine used the Winchester ammo 180gn 300 WM to hunt Australia and Africa. He loved them and used them until they went off the market | |||
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Was with a friend that shot a very big Audad sheep at 150 yards with a 270 win and using the Winchester factory ammo loaded with Fail Safe bullets. He shot the Audad in the shoulder and it’s chin hit the ground first. I don’t recall ever seeing such damage to an animal’s vitals as that bullet did. I was a believer that day. Hook em Horns | |||
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I bought a few boxes to try out on deer. They worked! I found them to be about like a moly coated Barnes X. I liked the blue coated Barnes Xs better an still have a couple boxes left. | |||
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I keep some .30-06 Failsafes in case No. 1 son ever comes hunting with me but have never shot anything with them. As I recall, they were supposed to penetrate deeply but only open out a bit, presenting a saw-blade rim of jacket to cut up flesh. | |||
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I think the evolution of the Barnes into the TSX abd TTSX has shown the need for 2 or 3 materials is unnecessary. | |||
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The combined technology moniker of the Failsafe bullet is because it is combination structure of solid copper alloy in the frontal half and lead in the rear, plus the Winchester bullets are coated with a black oxide lubricant. The lead in the base portion is not bonded. I would prefer the Federal Trophy Bonded Tipped bullet myself which is a similar combined technology bullet only in reverse to the Failsafe with bonded lead frontal portion and solid copper alloy base portion. I'm using these in factory ammo in my 7mm WSM which to date with this bullet has taken DRT three red deer and three fallow deer with only one recovered under the skin on the off side shoulder on a big red deer, perfect performance. I like the concept of the soft bonded lead always mushrooming with the solid base to hold everything together and driving deep or through. All deer, including one red shot at 380m, showed good wound damage. Federal TBT bullet  Actual recovered 140gr TBT bullet (3230fps MV)  | |||
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Ask about any bullet on an internet blog and you get pro and con!!  Id venture to say based on my personal experience which is extensive I guess, that about any bullet out there today does perform as advertised, the bullet makers listened and did their job..Hunting bullets today come in two kinds mostly and thats a penetrating bullet for the big stuff and the quick expanding bullet for deer size game, so do your homework, back in the day you had two choices a heavy weight bullet for big stuff and a light weight bullet for deer size game, not so much today, mostly because the monolithic changed the picture somewhat..The good news is its no longer complicated and we get by right or wrong it seems.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I was taking inventory the other day and after seeing this thread I weighed 50 .338 caliber 230 grain Fail Safe bullets. I would say that 97% or so were within one half grain of each other. There were some outliers, however. The heaviest was 231.1 grains. The lightest was 229.5 grains, for a maximum spread of 1.6 grains. That seems pretty good to me, but I don't know what maximum variance is deemed acceptable for hunting accuracy. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Failsafes have a small steel cap around the small lead core. The Combined Technologies moniker is bec the bullet is/was a partnership with Olin/Winchester and Nosler. | |||
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Rummaging around in my stockpile, I found a whole box of Fail Safe Winchester factory ammo in the 140gr loading. The sticker on the box was $9.97!  Checked my records, and it shot just OK out of my rifle; about 2" for 3 shots at 100y with a velocity around 2830fps. Not terrible for hunting, I suppose, but I'd prefer something faster and more accurate out of that cartridge. While an intriguing design, I never saw the point of designing a heavier duty Partition. I don't see the additional stoutness gaining you anything in the way of range or levelling you up on the kind of game that could be taken with a given bullet diameter and weight. Seems as though if you wanted to do that, you'd select either an already existing heavy duty bullet and/or a larger cartridge. I also wholeheartedly agree with the above poster on the TBBC. That is one of the top 3 bullet designs ever, IMO. I've a few rifles that love both the old and new designs and have stomped a few head of game with them. Very impressive. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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Agree 100%. The reason I have not used my .338 Fail Safes is that I have so many rounds of .338 TBBC bulleted ammunition. The TBBC is a killer every time. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Amen. That and the Trophy Bonded Tip. | |||
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Though I've bought them in loaded ammo, I've never seen naked  Failsafes for sale. Are they expensive?I ask that because I came on some old-stock Nosler partitions at a country shop last week at what seemed like bargain prices ($A56 for 286gr 9.3, $62 for 225gr .338s) but discovered at home they were only 25-bullet boxes. Dear as that made them, googling showed local dealers want $215-plus for 50x boxes of the same projectiles, so I did get a good deal after all. | |||
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So, short answer to your question is "yes", they are expensive. The context behind that is that they're not supposed to be. It's a discontinued bullet (for a long time now) and there are tons of other, better choices out there for less money. IMO, there's a false estimation of value on the part of the sellers. It's along the same lines as the the old Remington Bronze Point or Winchester Silvertip bullets. I've seen Fail Safe component bullets advertised at the prices you mention, which is nuts. They were expensive back when new, which is why people think they're "worth" the same amount today. It ain't so! _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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Wasn’t the demise of this bullet due to the U.S. government objecting to its robust construction? Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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Some confusion her on Speer bullets 1, Speer "Grand Slam is the odd and true premium bullet, mostly out of production, it was 3 metals of various hardness, but no xxxxxxx It was one of the very hard bullets that expanded quickly but also penetrated better that most other bullets. 2. The Tungston bullet was supposed to improve the Grand Slam,but was a Grand failure IMO.. 3 The old standard jacketed "Hot Core" was and is a great deer bullet and serve well on elk, but not my favorite for elk, but a favorite for deer in the 7x57, 280 it al, and 284 in the 130 gr. and 145 gr..130 for deer is perfect.. 4.The other Speer bullets it the mag-? and I have no experience with it, but it gets good press from time to time. Note: there have been too many changes as of late with Speer and bad moves IMO, discontinued great bullets and replacing them with junk or so it seems, if you can even find them, I sold recently on AR about 20 boxes each of 338 and 375 left over Grand Slams. Wish Id kept them. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Nosler Fail Safe bullets, 140gr 7mm???
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