I have a Rem 700 Sendero in .300Winni. Now, after over 10 years and nearly 4000 rounds fired, I mean the barrel is outburned. I use this rifle only for long range target shooting. Since a few months, with noting, reloaded and factory ammunition, I cann´t get good groups. Only between 2" and 3" at 100m.
Now, it´s the question, should I install a new barrel in the same round or should I change to the .300 H&H. As I bought the rifle in 1997 I was never realy enthusiastic with the .300Winni. The rifle liked only bullets with 165/168grs. And nothing heaviere.
I know, now I have hundrets of .300Winni brass and the reloading dies, etc. But, is the .300H&H a better reloadable and the better shooting round? Questions over questions.....


Thanks, Martin

I would order a faster twist barrel and stay with the 300 WM.
It is a better round, and you already have everything set up for it.

In all practicality there is zero difference between the two. Neither is any eaiser to work with and both are very accurate. Both are GREAT cartridges you can't go wrong with either of them.

the Winchester offering has to win this one under these circumstances

I would just get it rebarreled in a .264 WinMag and call it finished. Makes a far better long range target round than either of the above.

Terry

Thanks for replay´s.

I was thinking also about the 6,5x68, but the rim is smaller as the rim from the belted magnums. So I need a new bolt, if I try this one.
If I also select the .300Winni, whats the best faster twist for bullets between 178grs and 200grs? And should I change the barrel lenght, now it´s a 26" barrel.


Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Fan:
whats the best faster twist for bullets between 178grs and 200grs?
Martin

For bullets in that weight range, 1:11 would do well. Alternatively, the standard 1:10, will allow you stabilize bullets up to about 220 grs.

Btw, your Sendero (assuming it had a factory barrel) was likely a 1:10. So it is unlikely that the rifle's dislike for bullets heavier than 168 grs, say, was caused by inability to stabilize bullets. It just goes to show, every rifle is a law upon itself, and it is a bit of a lottery which bullets a rifle will shoot well. On the other hand, a well made 1:11 or 1:10 (custom) barrel will normally shoot heavier bullets well. Also ask the people who chamber your new barrel (Lothar Walter?) what reamer they will use, or (if necessary) have a reamer made up to your specs.

Regarding caliber choice. If you decide to switch to the .300 H&H, which is also a fine cartridge, be aware that .300 H&H brass is becoming increasingly hard to find. Even in the US, .300 H&H brass is made only from time to time, and there can be long spells where that brass is practically unavailable. In Europe (surprise, surprise) the supply situation can be even more problematic. Of late, Norma made some .300 H&H brass, but it does not come cheap, and who knows how long that source will last??

Compare that to the .300 Win Mag, which is still one of the most popular calibers around the World, and for which supplies are always available from mutiple manufacturers.

So if you do choose the .300 H&H, make sure you buy a lifetime's supply of brass, because it could get hard to find any in the future.

Btw, if you have managed to burn out a .300 Win Mag barrel, thinking of a 6.5x68 (apart form the issue of bolt face size) you have to realize how much harder on barrels that caliber is!!

If you wanted a caliber for long range work with lower recoil, a 6.5x284 would be a good choice. Sadly, it won't match your Sendero bolt face either.

- mike

Thank´s Mike,

I was also thinking about the 6,5x284. But this would be a complete new rifle and in Germany it´s not easy to get a new one without the bureaucratism.
Their all are right. The .300Winni is the best choise. I will only change the barrel. I´m now thinking about a Lothar Walther custom barrel with muzzle brake, 26" and 1-10" twist.


Thanks, Martin

Hi Martin,
I would never change the 300 Win for the 300 H&H!!! I think 300 Win is a better caliber, but if you want to use it for long range target shooting there are better solutions: 30-338 was for many years one of the best choise for long range target. It's veeery accurate and not so nervous like larger 300s.
This can be the best solution if you want to stay with this diameter.

Faina

I settled on the 300 H&H as I am a handloader and I like to shoot the heavy bullets and the old dog will shoot heavy bullets right up there with the 300 Wby, trailing by less than 100 FPS..The 300 win. won't do that within the pressure range I like to be in...

I like the long neck, the powder capacity and the taper that all but illiminates stuck cases and it feeds like s--t through a goose..

I have used the 300 H&H now for many years and in the one and only rifle I have owned in that caliber, and that says a lot for the caliber as I am truly a gun whore and guns don't last long around my place, they get traded, sold and changed a lot...

I never was quit satisfied with the short neck and lack of ability of using the heavy 200 and 220 gr. bullets in my 300 Win. Mag and the wby was not to my liking either, although its a fantastic killer...

Thank´s ray,

I was also never quit satisfied with the short neck and lack of ability of using the heavy bullets. And this is one point for the H&H. But the availability of enough brass is an other point. I have same .300H&H rounds and I will test the next time, the feeding and the magazinlength.
I will tell my decision next time.

Martin

The 300 H&H won't do anything that the 300 winchester won't. I'm a fan of the 300 H&H, but it's more for it's ease of feeding and cool looks than anything else. In all practicality the 300 winchester is just as good or better. There's not one whit of accuracy difference between the two and one is just as easy to reload as the other. Many complain about the shorter neck of the winnie but I've never seen any evidence that there's any legitimate reason behind it. If you were having problems with certain bullets out of your rifle then that's a problem with the rifle, not the round. Since you're all set up for the 300 winchester then I'd stick with it. Put a top quality barrel on it and I bet you'll be very satisfied with the results. There have been a lot of 1000 yd matches won with the 300 winchester mag, it's no slouch. Switch to the 300 H&H if you just want to be different, that's reason enough to be sure, but it's not going to outperform the winchester round.

I was always told that the 300 H&H was slower
then the 300 WIN MAG.

I am going to mix it here but what about moving to RUM, the Sendero box should accept the longer rounds and you move away from a belted case which many say causes a loss in accuracy. The change should see you gain around 200 plus fps per given bullet weight over standard WM velocity.

Not that the Winnie is in any way a bad round, I have a current Sendero SFII in that calibre and with Bereger 210 VLD ahead of 72.5 grains of Rel 22 it will punch small ragged one hole groups at 100 yards all day long.
Of course there is a trade off, less barrel life but for normal hunting rifle purposes and likely number of rounds fired it could be a useful way to go, the RUM seems at best with 200 plus grain bullets and seems especially fond of Retumbo for top velocity and accuracy.

Just my 2Cents.

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
I was always told that the 300 H&H was slower
then the 300 WIN MAG.

Only because it is loaded to lower pressures. If you take full advantage of the H&H case size and load it to comparable pressures, the .300 H&H is very close to the .300 Wby.

- mike

quote:

Reply

I think, that there is no problem to get H&H-cases! Look at the name H&H! It is no problem, to reform .375 H&H to 300H&H! Yes, I have pressure and velocity-tested loads with original (Win and Rem) cases and Norma reformed .375 cases! And the far better loads with very, very good results I got with the reformed cases, much better as with the originals!

I've made 300 H&H cases from R-P 300 Wby cases. Never had a problem with them but the headstamp does fool some folks.

I have never been sold on the convenience of "short throw" bolts and short magnum rounds. The 300 H&H remains alive because it's a great round, and because it's still competitive even though it is loaded to a lower pressure. Once moribund in the 70's, those of us in the know have always known the 300 H&H was a serious hunting round, whereas the rest of the shooting world seems to have rediscovered it. A good idea and time proven, the 300 H&H is here to stay.

The classic twist rate for the .30" has always been 1:10" and there is no valid reason to change it. If you want a 1:12" twist, get a 308 Winchester.

I would go for the 300 H&H. My father in law exchanged his 06 for a used rem 721 300 H&H years ago, with which he put away quite a few Montana elk, some at long range. I have a few of his old reloads laying around. They fit real nice when put in the mag of my cz550, if chambered in that rifle you could seat that bullet out as far as the rifling will allow. I personally had opportunity to use it on a deer hunt. His whole family got really upset when he sold that rifle to a neighbor. I'd like to see the ressurrected Win 70 offered in 300 H&H. Would have to get one!

Phil

No contest, in my opinion.

Find yourself a good used pre-'64 or Browning/FN in .300 H&H and you will have a rifle that will be the envy of every serious rifleman out there.

I used a pre-'64 .300 H&H for many years and only got rid of it because the barrel was starting to show signs of old age. Fantastic calibre!

Jvw has it right. There's more people standing in line to get my Pre 64 M70 300 H&H than any other gun I own. The 300 H&H is even more usable now than it was 50 years ago.

Mostly the calibers are simular, however water capacity should be measured from the junction of the neck and shoulder not to the top of the case, if you do this the 300 H&H has more powder capacity..

The longer neck of the 300 H&H negates the 300 Winchesters problem of heavy bullets protruding into that valuble powder space, thus you can pick up a 150 to perhaps as much as 200 FPS in the 300 H&H over the 300 Winchester with 200 adn 220 gr. bullets. thus my choice for the 300 H&H, along with the "extraction quality" of that long tapered case, and it technically should feed better but I wouldn't argue that point to hard...

In 180 gr.and below bullet weight I doubt that there is any difference at all between the two...I have used an hunted with both and find them both to be outstanding cartridges.

Since you can buy both calibers in a pre 64 and both bring a premium price in the pre 64, I wouldn't argue that point much either..

Bottom line is that I like the 200 gr. Noslers and the 220 gr. Woodleighs and the 300 H&H is the better case for both.