The recent Ruger introduction has me wondering why folks want a high capacity magazine in a medium bore bolt rifle. Am I just getting cranky? Have I fallen further behind the fashion curve? Or am I just unenlightened?
Thanks
Bfly

IMO, it's for the cosmetic, bad-ass effect that the wannabes are wanting.

One application which lends itself to more than 5 rnds. is that of XC,NM match shooting w/ bolt gun. Not that common anymore, but for the rapid fire stages, one must deliver 10 aimed shots in 60 seconds, change magazine, at 200yds from standing to sitting, 300yds standing to prone(prone provides for 70seconds.) Because so few bolt rifles w/high cap mags available to do this, most were milled w/ stripper clip guides and fed in that fashion, five at a time, for the timed stages. The stripper clip approach works ok, but it takes some practice to make it work smoothly and surely in the limited time frame allowed and hence the desire/effort to have quick change magazine set up. Most would load the initial mag w/ 2 rnds, fire those, check for score/hits, correct if necessary and insert second mag w/ 8 and finish the stage. As mentioned, I am sure there is a certain wannabee element out there, but only wannabees in the situation described above is for those not able or willing to learn to compete, hence true wannabees.

Remington with their 700 version w/ drop box magazine only permitted rnd capacity of 4 and if they had made it to take 5, lots of folks would have purchased just for the matches described above. I still shoot bolt gun, Tikka T3 Tactical and it is set up with 5 rnd. mags and very smooth action, deadly accurate, and excellent bolt gun for match purposes.

Rooger's latest business model is to fling as much crap at the gun-buying public and see what sticks.

Ruger lost it's visionary in 2002 and losing a man of that talent is a hard obstacle to overcome.

As to hi cap mags in bolt actions I feel as others have said. They are ridiculous.

I like to put all the ammunition I could possibly need for a hunt in the magazine when i head out for a couple weeks. Usually that means bringing 2 5s.

quote:

Hi Cap Mags in Bolt Rifles?

I have no interest or need for this!

IMO it's a couch commando thing.

Whatever floats the boat. We shouldn't be putting motives in people's heads we've never met.

Besides, anything that generates revenue for the gun industry is a good thing.

quote:

Because so few bolt rifles w/high cap mags available to do this, most were milled w/ stripper clip guides and fed in that fashion, five at a time, for the timed stages.

Question? If I may? Is that why the ONLY Winchester 54, in calibre 270 Winchester, I've seen here in Britain had a stripper clip guide milled into the rear receiver ring?

Since you mention the 54 Winchester, turn of the century bolt gun prior to Mod. 70 vintage, optics were not a commmon thing and for the real rifleman then he used a micrometer receiver sight and stripper clips were common to the Springfield and Mausers of that era and you could quite easily slip another five rnds into the magazine as needed. The relief cut or slight opening on some rifles on the left hand side of the receiver was there to permit the thumb to easily depress the stripper clip and accomplish the loading process. Winchester simply followed the method of the two popular military bolt guns of the time and incorporated the milled guide in their rifles.
Some Mod. 70's also had this feature. I have a built Rem. Mod. 700 match rifle used for what we call National Match shooting and it utilizes the striper clip system to facilitate rapid fire. From sitting or prone, skilled shooter can place 10 well aimed shots at both 200yds or 300yds in less than a minute with groups about the size of your hand using this system. It works well, but has no real application regarding a sporting/hunting rifle. Intended for LE, Mil., or match style shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Whatever floats the boat. We shouldn't be putting motives in people's heads we've never met.

Besides, anything that generates revenue for the gun industry is a good thing.

Amen. I read Vapo's post and the 1st thing that popped in my head was a 100rnd dual drum Beta-Mag for a Remington 700

"It's cool, but my arm gets tired from working the bolt" HA!

Now I read the Ugly Ruger thread too and was wondering about the whole "scout rifle" concept. Wouldn't a person in any situation that actually required a high capacity mag be better served with a semi auto rifle as opposed to a bolt gun? I know it was Jeff Cooper concept and I'm not say'n I know more than him. But, I've thought the same thing since it was introduced years ago. Why would a person be better served with a bolt gun?

Just wondering.

Terry

I won't contradict my own comment about putting thoughts in other's heads, especially dead folks that been and done things I haven't like Col. Cooper.

But it is an interesting point that his ultimate fighting handgun was a semi-auto and his ultimate fighting rifle was a bolt gun. There's a contradiction there based on his experiences. I met him once in Medina, TX when he was picking up "Baby" from Brent Clifton's shop. I wish I would have had the presence of mind to ask him then.

I know the basic principles of the Scout concept pretty well except for that part. I assume it has to do with absolute reliability and maintenance. Followed to the end of that logic, I guess a big bag of rocks is as good as it gets

quote:

One application which lends itself to more than 5 rnds. is that of XC,NM match shooting w/ bolt gun. Not that common anymore, but for the rapid fire stages, one must deliver 10 aimed shots in 60 seconds, change magazine, at 200yds from standing to sitting, 300yds standing to prone(prone provides for 70seconds.) Because so few bolt rifles w/high cap mags available to do this, most were milled w/ stripper clip guides and fed in that fashion, five at a time, for the timed stages. The stripper clip approach works ok, but it takes some practice to make it work smoothly and surely in the limited time frame allowed and hence the desire/effort to have quick change magazine set up. Most would load the initial mag w/ 2 rnds, fire those, check for score/hits, correct if necessary and insert second mag w/ 8 and finish the stage. As mentioned, I am sure there is a certain wannabee element out there, but only wannabees in the situation described above is for those not able or willing to learn to compete, hence true wannabees.

I have several mall ninja Lee Enfields.

I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in XTC rapid rifle. And I would much prefer a box magazine to stripper clips.

I have had rounds jam due to mis stacking, stacks of rounds auto ejecting, bruised my poor thumb on cold days, I used to push the clip out of the way with the bolt, until one fell forward and jammed the action. Stipper clips are not as good as mags.

I am personnally upset with FN not offering their M70's with anything larger than a four round box magazine. They have so missed the boat.

Tubb's rifle has ten round box magazines.

Thanks, I appreciate the comments. I figured there had to be some kind of matches where they would be used.
I am a little surprised there are no sniper/commando matches, kind of like three gun or cowboy shooting.
I don't shoot any competitions, so I am only familiar with what I've seen in magazines and on TV, which means I know slightly less than nothing.
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:


I have several mall ninja Lee Enfields.

Beat me to it.

I could not agree more that the detachable/drop type magazine is much preferred over the stripper clip system. As for Win not offering their rifle w/ 5 rnd capacity, Remington in it's infinite wisdom offered their much acclaimed 40XC rifle milled for stripper clip, but rarely would the damn thing accept 5 rnds down the magazine!! Go figure!! It was an easy fix for just relieved inside the stock(blind box version) a bit and good to go. Now, once that was done, it did work very smoothly and quickly, but not as fool proof as a drop magazine.

As for tactical matches, shooting games, etc., those do exist and have participated in some, but it is definitely rough on equipment. You need to be in very good physical condition and willing to do some running, hiking, jumping, even climbing and approaching 70, it is beyond my capacity now. It was fun at the time and tested your ability to read the wind, est. disances,etc. It is no place for a nice piece of walnut and rust blued sporting rifles.

About 15 years ago, my culling partner had a Rem. 700 in 308 modified to accept M14 magazines which was most effective when culling donkeys in Australia. I have seen him go thru 4.5 magazines on one herd alone. I used a semi-custom Steyr SBS with the 10 shot magazines. Needless to say, I only put down less than one third of any donkey herd, while he got more than the lion's share with the 20 rnd. capacity.

High capacity magazines have their place for specific shooting situations.

Geoff

The 10 shot single stack magazine is realy missing the boat, sorry Ruger, I like the design (without the flash hider) for general bush use. But sometimes one must go prone for longer range shots and that long magazine just means that I'm keeping my Mall Ninja Lee Enfield until some major maker actualy puts together a decent firearm.
As for the advocates of the semi auto, there is a good reason that the Canadian Rangers still use the Lee Enfield rifle and told the government to shove semi auto's, when it's -30 C most semis are useless as sticks.
Cheers

I think 5 round mags would apply better, as used on the Steyr Scout.

A 10 round mag on the Steyr changes the balance and handling, so I stick to the 5 rounders. I wonder what the balance of the Ruger is with a loaded 10 round mag?

I would prefer the Ruger come with 5 rounders, with the option to buy all the 10 rounders one cares to pay for.

Cooper never said a scout rifle was a battle rifle, it's a general purpose rifle, he said the Garand was the king of battle rifles.

He invisioned a "scout" using the quick peep/scout scope with a 3lb trigger and ching sling decking the enemy with his 1st round and running the heck away. He wrote a lot about the benefit of the 3lb trigger on the scout enabling it's user to get a 1st round hit.

A rifle with a lousy trigger wasn't a scout to Cooper, no matter what it looked like.

Black Fly,
What is, I guess to you, a "high cap mag"?
There are allot of rifles with DBM, just wondering what constitutes a "high cap" one from what?, a low, or average cap mag?
I would assume people would want a "high cap mag" on there rifle to do a couple of things.
To be able to carry more ammo, both in the rifle and on there person.
Also, to be able to shoot more rounds before having to reload.
If there is anything else you dont know, please feel free to PM me.
Terry.

Here are my thoughts.

For most normal hunting uses, more than a 5 round mag is not needed...

But for some uses,such as culling, some competition, law enforcement, military, and for civilian personal protection, in places where semiautos are not allowed, a 10 round or a 20 round mag for a bolt rifle is a good option.

As a work gun I have used a Steyr SSG with 5 and 10 round mags, and a Accuracy International, with 10 round mags. So I do know a good thing when I see/need it.

I have used a H&K 91 quite a b it as a hunting rifle and as a work gun..

When I hunt I use a 5 round mag, it is handy and compact. When "messing around" I use a 10 rounder. For a work gun I used a 20 rounder [some times even the Nigerian 30 rounder ].

It is a generally unfilled niche that will sell guns but I don't se it I won't mind having one but I like ugly rifles that function well I also like beautiful rifles to if I could I`d probably have 2 of every gun I could find but I'm not rich as far as money goes

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
IMO, it's for the cosmetic, bad-ass effect that the wannabes are wanting.

+1 LOL It's all about the wannabes, so very true.

If I ever need that much ammo in the tank It would be in a tactical auto of some sort and not a bolt action.

I disagree.
A game warden of some sort might find the 10rd "high cap" magazine reassuring.
There really is no need to act immature about something you have no use for, and don't understand the intended consumer.
This forum, I thought, was above that.