Hey guys what do you think? What to do? Some preliminaries first:

I bought a Remington 700 BDL-DM in 7mm-08 to use as a deer rifle a few years back. I bought a box of Remington factories - 140 grainers and headed up to the farm to sight it in.

I only shot three rounds. She kicked more than I thought she should and the bolt was hard to open and I noticed that brass was being sheared off the back end of the case. I thought oh-no we got a pressure problem here. So I took it back to the gun shop and they thought we should send it back to Remington. I said to check the head space on the rifle.

Remingtion "checked it", "fired" it and sent it back. Out to the farm again and absolutely no change. Back to the gun shop and back to Remington. This time Remington said they honed the chamber out to help make extraction easier.

Back to the farm and again no change! The gun shop and I still didn't think it was right so we went one more round. The last time Remington said use different ammo. So I tried some Federal 150's and at least it stopped shearing brass.

I have used it this way but it would be nice to be able to use the manufacturer's ammuntion in their own gun. I finally got around to taking it to a gunsmith. He popped a no-go gauge in the chamber and the bolt closed just fine. So the head space is off just like I suspected at first. I understand that stuff goes wrong when you are making thousands of guns a year but to lie about really takes your faith out of a company.

Anyhow now what to do. I would still like to be able to shoot Remington factories because they are easy to get. It is going to cost about $130 bucks to redo the barrel and this may not be the only problem. Is it worth getting it fixed or should I just trade it on something else?? The cost of a new gun is going to be less than $200 difference.

Sorry for the long winded post but wanted to vent some steam. Just what to know what you have done in a similar situation. Thanks for the help.

Hogsaw, if it was me I'd opt for another rifle. If it's only going to be $200 difference, that's not much away from the price to work on yours and it may or may not solve the problem. Go with something you trust. I have a 7mm-08 in a Savage Sierra that I use Winchester 140 gr. Fail Safes with and I love it to death. Ugly little critter but it's reliable, tough, accurate and I trust it to do what I need. If you don't have faith in your equipment you'll just make yourself miserable.

I would send it back again and tell them you put a no-go gauge in it and the bolt closed, so there is a problem from there end of the business.

If they dont fix it or send you a new one, I would set the barrel back and cut the chamber again,this may or may not fix the problem if the chamber doesnt run true. A gunsmith will be able to tell you if the chamber is out of spec before he sets the barrel back, then determine what you want to do.

I'd give Remington one more chance to correct the problem. but either way, I'd get rid of the rifle. I doubt, no matter what is done, you will ever have faith in the rifle operating correctly. It will never become the one you grab off the rack without a thought as you go out the door.

I like the Model 700 Remington. I bought my first one at age fifteen, and I've owned scores of them over the last thirty years, even though I'm a Model 70 shooter first and foremost.

With few exceptions, I've always had great service out of the Model 700s I've owned, but for my money, Remington really hasn't produced a good 700 since the late 1980s. From 1962 until about 1988, it was just about impossible to buy a Remington 700 that wasn't an accurate and reliable rifle. Some were tackdrivers right out of the box and others required some tuning, but the consistent product quality was so good that the odds of getting a real turkey 700 were slim.

For a host of reasons, quality has steadily slipped in the years since, and I would NOT buy a current Remington 700 rifle for any reason whatsoever. To me, that's no problem because Remington produced tens of thousands of these rifles during the "good" years, and finding one in mint or new-in-the-box condition is no problem if you scour the gunshows and used gun departments at legitimate gun and sporting goods stores. Often, these can be had cheaper than the news ones, and there's no comparison in quality between these production periods. Last year, for example, I found a new-in-the-box BDL in .223 Remington produced in he late 1970s for $375.....

To me, the answer's easy: Trade your turkey in on something else, and shop for any older Model 700.

AD

Well

I don't own a rifle from big green anymore. I got tired of their quality and customer service. I had enough, thanks, but not NO thank you.

I got ridd of my last remington 700 today, it was a remington made in 1970's are the action the tight and smooth. A fellow wanted to trade it for a small ring 98. He was going to build a custom rifle.

I would ask remington to stuff it and get something else. Prowl the used rack for a old sako or tikka. They often shoot very well and is often well made. My option would be a commercial 98 of some sort.

Good Luck
/ JOHAN

[ 05-11-2003, 15:05: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

Thanks guys for the input. Just a note, the owner of the gun shop where I bought the rifle knows a VP at Remington personally. The owner talked to this VP about this rifle and they still didn't fix it. I guess I don't hold out much hope that they will do anyting. I think I will get rid of her and cut my losses. I have been looking at a Tikka 30-06 in stainless laminate - looks like a nice rifle and there have been many positive reviews of Tikka on this site.

Allan (or anyone else) - where is there a listing of serial numbers and years for the Remington 700?

And some wonder why we dont shop for american goods in this big country.

Remington has failed the consumer unless they read these posts and make it good for you.

Are they such idiots that Remington does not pay at least one employee to read these horror stories on the web and fix the problems?

Morons in green, I say. If you sent it back twice and they did not even do the same go-no-go head space test your gunny did, they why should we think they can make a rifle right in the first place. It meets their standards, and that shows us what their standards are: an unsafe nogo rifle from the factory.

sad sad sad.

I would send it to their CEO and tell him to keep it, since you can not sell it either.

caveat remington.

Maybe we should send this thread directly to Remington's email box

I have bought several new Rem 700's before. I won't buy another until I see ALOT of improvement.

My LAST was/is a Classic in 221 fireBall. It has ejection problems. Typical of the 223 boltface problems I, and friends have had with there M700 rifles. I would love to buy a good American made rifle. But I refuse to buy a lesser quality product, when I can buy better quality for the same price or less.

Use the barrel for a pry bar and sell the action and stock as parts. You will probably do better than trading it in, (which is a bit on the unethical side, anyway).

If Remington cared about customer satisfaction, they wouldn't be designing, producing or selling crap to begin with. I learned my lesson from them the hard way, too.

Get a Winchester.

i sure would not sell it or trade it. that would be HIGHLY unethical, even dangerous to the next owner if he does not understand high-pressure signs. if remington won't make it right, then get your 'smith to remove the barrel and see if the action is square. if so, then re-barrel with a lothar walther or some such. man, that's a nasty siutation.

Sorry to hear so many of you have had problems with your late model Remington's. I work in manufacturing and know why they have problems - the top guys are worrying about their stock options and their golden severance packages and to heck with the customer's - they are such a pain. The mentality is to make this quarter's numbers look good (i.e. make the top guys look good) and the long term is the next guy's problem.

I think American manufacturer's have forgotten one fundamental fact - a profit is a reward for a better product at a better price. All these C.E.O.'s say they are in business to make money (for themselves mostly) for their shareholders. Well guess what, if you make a product that is higher quality for a competive price the profits take care of themselves - duh! If you just try to make money you end up going out of business.

I would love to be able to buy American but not while they don't care about quality or the consumer. I am afraid Remington is going to suffer just like Detroit has until they figure it out.

Anyhow, I got two different gunsmiths to give me an opinion. Neither think the excessive head space is a safety problem but it will impact accuracy which I have found out. Yea I do have an issue dumping my problem on some other poor guy. Maybe I should get it rebarreled in a .358 - now that should be a pretty good whitetail thumper for the PA woods.

I own several remington firearms, from a .280 mountain rifle to a .300 ultra mag, several are model 700's 1 is a model 660, several shotguns , i have fired thousands of rounds through mine , i have no complaints just a lot of bullseyes and dead game, Hey Even Porsche makes a bummer now and then i know used to work on them, Remington is still the best mass produced firearm out of the box , yes i got big shoulders to handle the opinions thrown back at me.

If your gunsmiths are really gunsmiths, at least one of them should have suggested that you have the barrel set back and re-chambered to the proper headspace. It is just not that expensive and a whole lot cheaper than a new barrel. It may even be less than the loss for the trade.

I agree with Larry,

It's one sad thing that the Remington is a lemon.

It's another sad thing not to turn lemon into lemonade!

I would say that a Tikka or a Sako is the best out of the box rifle that is massproduced, there are other brands as well but they are a lot pricier like Styer PSS or Malincher models..

Tikka has released a new budgetline rifle A T3 that will put a lot of pressure on Win, Rem, Ruger or others..

Check it out on www.tikka.fi if you desire..

Chris

Apparently, Remington has a two return minimum before they do anything. We sent a 300RUM twice because you had to use a cleaning rod to extract a fired case.(There was a bulge in the case about a half inch below the shoulder after firing.)

My guess is, they can't find anything wrong unless you can tell them what the problem is.

I personally would keep on Remington until they made good on the rifle. If your gunsmith knows a VP there, use that avenue to it's fullest. Maybe you don't have the time and want to put forth the effort with Remington, but they need to be made aware that consumers are sick and tired of paying good money for a crappy rifle. Until they feel the wrath of the unhappy customers, nothing will change there.
I would not trade the rifle out. Quite unethical to drop an unsafe firearm on another individual.
Just my .02 worth.

MDH

This trend of customer frustration has been evident on vertually any other forum were accuracy minded shooters post.

You need to write Remingtion's CEO about this. Keep it civil and share any good things you have noted about their product line. Our goal should not be to ruin a company but to get an American icon to wake up and smell the gun powder. Someone once said that "only accurate rifles are interesting." There isn't much in Reminton's line today to keep my attention.

Write to:

Mr. Tommy Millner
President & CEO
Remington Arms Company, Inc.
P.O. Box 700
Madison, NC 27025-0700

Go the www.xtremeaccuracy.com and look up my post "Write the Remington CEO Campaign." Do it and send him a copy of your post here. They need to be poked up.

Ask for your money back from remington!

They can't just make unsafe guns.

Johan

Well guys, I took the "lemon" to a gunsmith with a good reputation. I don't trust Remington to fix it after returning the rifle to Remington 3 times and telling them what is wrong! Anyhow he is going to take the barrel off and set it back. His initial measurement for the headspace was 0.022" - shouldn't this be something around 0.004"? I wonder how I didn't have cases blowing up? He is going to write a letter with all the things he finds wrong with the rifle and I am going to add my two cents and send it on to Remington. If nothing else at least it will be one more log on the poor quality fire. I hope that someone there still cares.

For Remington, it is the same as with every non-custom-made US firearm: buy a good used gun from the pre-1960s, and you will get a well-made product, from a time where quality control did still exist. Buy a modern product, and dispose yourself to getting junk.

Carcano

Well said, Orion!

Orion, I am not surprised to see that your ignorance is only matched by your vulgarity.

As to the lack of quality control with Remington, here is a link to a parallel thread, from JudgeG. Reaming chambers to proper dimensions is beyond their capabilities:

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=006753

And this one is the original thread, quite substantial:

http://www.serveroptions.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=006348

Carcano

[ 05-30-2003, 01:23: Message edited by: carcano91 ]

Carcano said--

quote:

---

For Remington, it is the same as with every non-custom-made US firearm: buy a good used gun from the pre-1960s, and you will get a well-made product, from a time where quality control did still exist. Buy a modern product, and dispose yourself to getting junk.

---

It might sound harsh and there ARE exceptions, but for the most part that's a true statement.

Really GOOD factory rifles didn't come in cardboard boxes of any color.

"Well guys, I took the "lemon" to a gunsmith with a good reputation. I don't trust Remington to fix it after returning the rifle to Remington 3 times and telling them what is wrong! Anyhow he is going to take the barrel off and set it back. His initial measurement for the headspace was 0.022" - shouldn't this be something around 0.004"? I wonder how I didn't have cases blowing up? He is going to write a letter with all the things he finds wrong with the rifle and I am going to add my two cents and send it on to Remington. If nothing else at least it will be one more log on the poor quality fire. I hope that someone there still cares. "
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I have a great deal of respect for you. Thank you for not putting this gun back on the market as is.

[ 05-30-2003, 06:43: Message edited by: trigger ]

just bought a sako in 300 rem. ultra, went and bought some rem. ammo, disscusting, couldn't beleive the nic's and dent's in there factory casing's. what's UP, maybe friday run ammo? pretty sad.!!!!

Why don't you just buy a Canadian rifle and ammo, maybe you would be more satisfied.