Is it because the barrel is .308 groove? Is it the throat? Why does this rifle have a reputation for inaccuracy?

KB

I don't know why but they are lucky to shoot 4-5 groups at 100yds. I had 1 for a very short time and then traded it off.

Whose military is using the Mini-30?

George

cheap barrel just like the mini 14 - rebarrel & you will see an big difference

I'm not much in the mood to be buying another Ruger with the intention of rebarreling it just so it will shoot accurately.

I called Ruger customer service. The groove is .310, since about 1990. I asked why there are so many complaining about accuracy. The guy blamed the cartridge, then he tried to justify that 3-4 inches at 100yds is acceptable.

He also said that if I was looking for accuracy, get something on an AR.

So, apparantly the answer is the rifles are not accurate because those at Ruger think that's ok, and the rifles sell anyway.

KB

If it makes you feel better I have a stainless Ruger mini 14 that wont even do that, But on the other hand it is still fun to shoot, gives small game a fair chance I guess.



The mini-s are not noted for their accuracy and probably never will be.


Cal30

I really don't know how Ruger can get away with it. I mean how do they sell these things? What kind of customer would put up with it? There must be a lot of customers out there, or they wouldn't continue to put crap on the market.

IMO, this falls into the same catagory as the 44 mag carbine. I had one of the bolt actions, and it was the most inaccurate factory rifle that I've ever shot. I thought it was salvagable, and had a gunsmith bed it. No improvment. So, I got rid of it.

I know there are those who claim to be getting adequate accuracy with the Mini, and/or the 44 and/or the 22 Hornet. I say prove it, because I just don't believe you unless you can show me what it does on paper, with all the details, such as ammo, whether the rifle has been modified or not, range, etc.

IMO, this is rediculous coming from a company like Ruger, who IMO should be able to get it right. Buy American????

KB

I hate to sound so cynical but eveytime I go to my range there is a different 20-something guy or set of guys shooting various tactical guns (AKs, AR carbines, Mini 14s and the like) with iron sights or red dots. They're self defense tactical warriors, not hunters. Most of them have a GameBox and a Sony Play Station too.

They feel real good if they keep 30 shots inside a 12" circle at 100 yds. Some seem pretty proud of 10" at 50 yards. A person like that surely dosen't badmouth a rifle that shoots an occasional 4" group at 100 when they have lucky day.

Most of these guys are fixated on shooting the hypothetical bad guy in their living room and don't care about shooting farther than across the room.

But any law abiding gun owner is a good gun owner to me; so if they're happy I'm just as happy for them.

I see them too, and it's pretty scary to think too deeply about. There is something about it that will probably remain a mystery to me, unless of course it's way too obvious, which is a real probablility. I've seen them in deer camp too, the sons and guests of guys my age, and when these whippersnappers are in camp, it's all phucked up, IMO.

KB

The scary part about it to me, is that everyone who has tools they view as toys wants to play with them in ways that approach the edge of unreality...and then sometimes lap over and into it...

Its true with kids of all ages, 6 months, 6 years, and sixty years.

Thats why I don't like buying the military every new toy that comes along for just $40 Billion or so. First they train with them, then they develop visions of when & where they might justifiably use them. Then they sell the administration in power (ANY administration) on directing them to use them in some "maybe" instance of self defense. Bingo! Yet another war! Who's next, Iran?

Same is true with home defense commandos and even more so with police officers.

And before you have apoplexy, I'm not talking about the rank and file of either military or police, but about the brass hat command officers in particular. (Though I have known SWAT team members with the same syndrome.)

One of the worst features of the Mini-30 is the rediculous stock. I solved this by amputating the factory stock at the pistol grip and grafting the pistol grip and butt from a ruined M14 stock to it. (The stock was shattered at the magazine well: don't ask me how.)

Now the stock is the proper length and has the proper drop at comb and heel. With a 4X scope and using commercial ammunition it shoots about as well as a rack grade M1 or M14. I don't think of it as a hunting rifle, but rather as a platform to test out some ideas I have about a practical military rifle.

Was talking to a local shop owner who went to an indudstry show in Vegas (not SHOT, I forget the name) a week or so ago. The Hornady factory rep told him that they are having a hard time keeping up with the demand for their new line of Zombie Max ammo. Go figure.

quote:

I really don't know how Ruger can get away with it. I mean how do they sell these things? What kind of customer would put up with it?

If you think that's bad, ask them what acceptable accuracy is for one of their M77s, even the varmint models. About fifteen years ago my cousin had an M77VT in .223 that wouldn't shoot better than 3-inch, 5-shot groups. He called Ruger to ask about a new barrel and they told him that was "acceptable accuracy". He could send it in for them to test, but if Ruger got that level of accuracy with factory ammo, they'd ship the rifle right back.



.

quote:

new line of Zombie Max ammo

What is different about this ammo?


Or is it just a marketing tool for the guys we are talking about?



Cal30

When the Mini-14 first came out, it was touted as the World's most expensive Plinker. What's changed ?

Grizz

I didn't intend the direction this thread has taken, but I really think it's a topic that's way overdue.

Some things about firearms are and have gone in directions that I'm rather uncomfortable about, in several ways. It's a touchy subject, but like the concept of political correctness, maybe it should be out in the open air - to ventilate. This Zombie thing is a fine example.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
When the Mini-14 first came out, it was touted as the World's most expensive Plinker. What's changed ?

Grizz

Expectations.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:

quote:

new line of Zombie Max ammo

What is different about this ammo?


Or is it just a marketing tool for the guys we are talking about?



Cal30

Here ya go, I think you got both parts right.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Zombie-Max-new

It's actually about de-personalization of human beings, the first step in justification, and rationalizaton. It's about violation of the social contract - to do no harm, to accept no harm. It's an us and them attitude, instead of we are all in this together. It's sick.

The fact that it's used and effective as a marketing tool is very disturbing, when you understand what it means.

KB

Kabluey; you have the "big cookie." Your checkbook! If you're not happy with the product don't write the check.

I have access to words too, and I'll write them when I feel like it.

Thanks for your permission.

KB

My m-14 shoots fine for what it is. When I say fine I can tell you I can shoot quarters at 50 yards with it. I shoot it at 100 on paper once in a while but don't think I've ever measured a group. It holds minute of coyote out beyond 250 yards.

The thing I see most often is inconsistant assembly. The gas block is usually on crooked and torqued uneven. second is binding of the stock into the lower portion of the gas block. Last they can be bedded just like the M1a.

If I had to guess at group size I'd put it at 1 1/2 at 100 yards.(when the scope was on it) But I dropped it and damaged the scope so I pulled it off and have been using it with the peeps for the last several years. It kills coyotes just as dead with irons as it did with the scope on so I haven't given it much thought.

Below are reasons why the gun hasn't been traded off to a zombie killer. Nate

I would really like to own one, but I'm particular about accuracy. I don't want to set myself up for frustratation like I experienced with that darn 44 mag.

I like the looks of the rifle, and the handiness of it.

KB

Both my younger boys like it and if you bought one of the used ones you could probably not be out much money.

We now have a couple AR's and haven't spent any time at all trying to wring them out accuracy wise but they feel clunkier to me. Easy to get parts for and customize but if you spend that much why not buy something that starts out more accurate?

If you can look at one of the "awful shooting" ones that come up for sale you can find one that is shooting poorly for the reasons I listed above and get it cheap. Spend a little time fitting it up the same way you would any bolt gun and you'll probably like the handiness and find the accuracy good enough to keep you entertained.

Keep your ears tuned for someone really disapointed with theirs and have a look. You may get it for a song if you offer to buy it while he's mad or bitching to his pals. Just make sure he's not to close of a friend. ... when you "fix" it and he finds out how easy it was he may direct his anger more at you and less toward the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
It's actually about de-personalization of human beings, the first step in justification, and rationalizaton. It's about violation of the social contract - to do no harm, to accept no harm. It's an us and them attitude, instead of we are all in this together. It's sick.

The fact that it's used and effective as a marketing tool is very disturbing, when you understand what it means.

KB

Second the motion.

Really, I don't mind throwing a little money into it, if I had confidence in the probability of improvment. I want it for a boat rifle, when deer hunting. The shots will almost surely be less than 100 yds. I don't mind handloading, and actually prefer it, to taylor a load that's accurate.

KB

Not to punt other websites, but I think Perfect Union was the place to get good advice on tweaking a Mini.

There are several reasons. The one has to do with the set up of the gas block which you can inadvertantly "tune" and a really skinny barrel.

In Calafornia they are used for IPSC as the black guns are out, so they receive a great deal of attention there.

Strangely simply hanging a muzzle brake on the end of the barrel often shrinks groups dramatically, as though the added weight just help the harmonics. I've heard this from every IPSC shooter who added a brake with whom i've spoken over here, but that's just a handful.

Otherwise check out Accuracy Systems Inc. for some ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by ARWL:

There are several reasons. The one has to do with the set up of the gas block which you can inadvertantly "tune" and a really skinny barrel.

Strangely simply hanging a muzzle brake on the end of the barrel often shrinks groups dramatically, as though the added weight just help the harmonics.

Otherwise check out Accuracy Systems Inc. for some ideas.

I've heard of at least one guy who machined a bushing of sorts and installed a CR BOSS with great results. Nate

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Kabluewy:
It's actually about de-personalization of human beings, the first step in justification, and rationalizaton. It's about violation of the social contract - to do no harm, to accept no harm. It's an us and them attitude, instead of we are all in this together. It's sick.

The fact that it's used and effective as a marketing tool is very disturbing, when you understand what it means.

KB

-Very good writed.

Its strange how many americans are so afraid of their neighbors that they have of get a tactical rifle.

What's worse is that some of it may be out of fear, but some of it is meanness looking for an excuse, and some of it is fantasy. There is a line somewhere amonst all that where caution or enjoyment of a sport takes an unhealthy turn, IMO. Rhetoric is a clue, and the use of the word Zombie indicates a turn for the worse. The antonym of "zombie" is "person". http://zombieindustries.com/sh...ding-zombie-targets/

KB

The problem with the ammo is that the military stuff and the steel cased commercial (not Hornady) is massed produced to a very low accuracy spec. Remember, this stuff is designed for AKs used with com bloc infantry tactics. Full auto burst fire to get their guys from their IFVs into the enemy's main line of defense. If you want a 7.62x39 semi-auto, I would get a quality AK. They shoot at least as well as a mini 30 and are much more durable. The lowly Chinese sks in good examples will shoot better than 3 moa with U.S. Commercial ammo or hand loads.

I used my mini-30 for years deer hunting in northern Wisconsin. I hand loaded for it but Factory Federal ammo worked well too. As a response to seeing the "muzzle flash" from my stand, I put a flash suppressor on it - just pinned it on the front sight. And guess what, it shot a lot better. I put it in a plastic stock that helped too. I bought a thumbhole laminated stock years ago but did not use it because it added too much weight. I have a 4 power Burris scope on it.

There are a lot of good responses here...

The first one I thought of after reading the original question of "Why does the Mini-30 have a reputation for inaccuracy?" Because it EARNED it!!

I've been very disappointed in mine as well, and don't relish ever spending the extra cash to make it better. Just won't ever buy another, and mostly use the one I have for steel plate plinking at 75-100 yds or so, and carrying on the Gator for hogs. The more I think about how it shoots, the less I worry about how it might get beat up.

Unfortunately, this has pretty much been my experience with all Rugers, with the exception of a M77/22 that I use as my practice plinker for my centerfires, as most are M70's or M98's and have similar action/ safeties to this .22. It's actually about as good a shooter in .22 as I've ever owned.

Just an " FYI " :
" Sub 1.5 MOA accuracy guarantee for 7.62 x 39 & 6.8 SPC unless you order a 1" or .850" x 24" barrel which then would be a 1.25 MOA accuracy guarantee. All other caliber's below ordered in a 1" or .875" Diameter barrel 24" long would be 1 MOA and 16.5" to 20" a 1.5 MOA accuracy guarantee 3 shot group @ 100 yards with factory selected ammo or as stated when ordered. Of course all barrels are capable of better accuracy with the right ammo.... "

http://www.ruger-mini-14-firea...uger_mini_prices.php

PAPI

Awesome if it's real. At the prices shown, one would expect accuracy. But the flaw is that one enters this arena with disappointment already present, and throws more money at something that IMO ought to be right in the first place.

If the AR 15s shot as poorly as the mini Rugers, what would be the effect of that?

KB

During the last Century, when all military rifles still relied on iron sights, 3 moa was the limit for acceptable accuracy on service grade rifles. This includes everything from the 1903 to M16A1. This would still allow a hit on a man size target as far as the naked eye could see (about 400 yds).

The mini-14, being a para-military endeavor, was originally designed with the same parameters.

Since the beginning of this Century, we put optics on everything and expect better accuracy. I'm sure Ruger can redesign the Mini-14 to tighter tolerances, but you will be paying considerably more for it.

Older mini-14's, as well as the M77 Mk I, were made when Ruger was outsourcing their barrels. The quality was hit or miss (mostly miss).

Ruger re-tooled the "Mini" line of rifles about 5-6 years ago. These rifles start with 580 serial numbers and are generally much more accurate than the older ones. The last one I owned (.223) would shoot 1 1/2"- 2" groups pretty consistantly. I know that's not target grade but a lot better than some of the older ones. I always like the Ruger mini. They are a joy to carry compared to the AR rifles.

Terry

They talk it up on the Accuracy Systems site, and they ain't cheap. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with their upgrades? And was it worth it?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
They talk it up on the Accuracy Systems site, and they ain't cheap. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with their upgrades? And was it worth it?

KB

No hands on but I talked to a guy once that had A/S do a rifle for him. He said it was a consistant MOA rifle and sometimes shot much better. He had pictures of the rifle and targets and they both were impressive. It wasn't cheap and the rifle looked to have a lot heavier barrel on it which is something I wouldn't want on a Mini but he was very happy with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
They talk it up on the Accuracy Systems site, and they ain't cheap. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with their upgrades? And was it worth it?

KB

Back in the 90's I had a pre-ban .223 Ranch rebarreled by them. When bedded in a thumbhole stock, it shot consistent sub MOA groups. It was boringly accurate.