Bottom line is that I am building my wife a rifle for medium to large game and am to the point of picking the caliber. It will be used for elk and bigger animals to include bears.

The rifle will be a Remington model 7 with about a 21 inch tube. She currently has a model 7 in 7-08 that she loves and is very competent with so I want to stick with a familiar platform.

I shoot a 338-06 so we would share common bullets (I am partial to the 210 Partition) but I have always been interested in the 358. I do like the fact that we could load handgun bullets in the 358 for more off season practice. It seems there is more bullet selection in the 338 caliber, but with the 210 PT and 200 BT, I don't really need anything else.

Any input or experience would be appreciated.

The Rem mod 7 platformis a good choice, my wife and I have used them quite a bit in 223, 243, 308 and 350Rem Mag.
I like them.

I think ballistically I would prefer the 358 Win. 225gr bullets probably offer the best compromise between range and punch, but I like the 250gr for up close thump.

The 338 might accutally make it as a commercial success as they tout muzzle velocity in the ads and "speed sells".

Truth be told the 338 and the 358 are so similar in "power" that an animal will probably never know the difference.

Both of you using .338 bullets would be a plus.

I would probably use a 20" bbl.

There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.

In .35 cal there are plenty of heavy grain bullets, but as you mentioned you also have the selection of pistol bullets, plus the 180 Single shot pistol bullets, plus you can still get your hands on the 150 gr rem pointed CL's for a real screamer.

The 7mm08 will handle some pretty big animals and if you are going to go bigger, you might as well go all the way up to .35.

Weagle

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
The Rem mod 7 platformis a good choice, my wife and I have used them quite a bit in 223, 243, 308 and 350Rem Mag.
I like them.

I think ballistically I would prefer the 358 Win. 225gr bullets probably offer the best compromise between range and punch, but I like the 250gr for up close thump.

The 338 might accutally make it as a commercial success as they tout muzzle velocity in the ads and "speed sells".

Truth be told the 338 and the 358 are so similar in "power" that an animal will probably never know the difference.

Both of you using .338 bullets would be a plus.

I would probably use a 20" bbl.

I second the entire post....well done.

I keep asking and no one ever responds...please tell me what can you kill with a 338 Federal or 358 winchester that you cannot kill with a 7-08 and a 150 grain Barnes TSX at 2600 FPS??? I am always in favor of a new gun but if your wife shoots her 7-08 well, the 338 or 358 will kick more possibly making her less effective with it. Like I said no one has ever responded to my question...

Jimmy I will respond.
I have not used a 7-08 but I have used a 308 quite a bit. It is one of my most favorite calibres.
And my wife used one in Zimbabwe for 2 kudu, a wildebest, and a zebra. She also shot a kudu with a 30-06 from her drilling.
I have killed black bear with a 308 as well.
We have also killed many deer and wild pigs with the 308 as well.
Mostly with 165 grain bullets, some with 180's.

No problems, when hit well the game does not go far.

I have also used a 9,3x74R double rifle for the same game animals, mostly with 286gr bullets.

The larger bore with the heavier bullets just kills quicker. It makes bigger holes, and many times will knock the game down, no follow up required.
It wacks, thumps, and simply dumps them quicker.

I have taken and seen taken a lot of game with the 308, and the 9,3x74R, and I "discovered" those results, I did not set out to prove them.

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.

In .35 cal there are plenty of heavy grain bullets, but as you mentioned you also have the selection of pistol bullets, plus the 180 Single shot pistol bullets, plus you can still get your hands on the 150 gr rem pointed CL's for a real screamer.

The 7mm08 will handle some pretty big animals and if you are going to go bigger, you might as well go all the way up to .35.

Weagle

Exactly! Although sound in concept the 338 Federal is a 150 yard rifle when using bullets purposely built for faster and more powerful cartridges. Conversely, new bullets for the Federal round are a bad idea and will inevitably find their way into the more powerful rounds. Therein lies the reason I don't like it.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.

In .35 cal there are plenty of heavy grain bullets, but as you mentioned you also have the selection of pistol bullets, plus the 180 Single shot pistol bullets, plus you can still get your hands on the 150 gr rem pointed CL's for a real screamer.

The 7mm08 will handle some pretty big animals and if you are going to go bigger, you might as well go all the way up to .35.

Weagle

Exactly! Although sound in concept the 338 Federal is a 150 yard rifle when using bullets purposely built for faster and more powerful cartridges. Conversely, new bullets for the Federal round are a bad idea and will inevitably find their way into the more powerful rounds. Therein lies the reason I don't like it.

The farthest I have taken a deer with my 338 Federal has been 242yds with a 200 gr Hornady Spire point the bullet left a nice wound channel and was not recovered the deer DRT.

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.
Weagle

How many bullets does one need? The 210 TSX is an excelent match for the 338 Federal.

Zebra taken with the 339 Federa and the 210 TSX. Shot was taken at about 100 yards




Damage to Zebra's heart by the 210 TSX and the 338 Federal




I can't phathom any thing lacking with that type of performance

quote:

Originally posted by ron williams:

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.

In .35 cal there are plenty of heavy grain bullets, but as you mentioned you also have the selection of pistol bullets, plus the 180 Single shot pistol bullets, plus you can still get your hands on the 150 gr rem pointed CL's for a real screamer.

The 7mm08 will handle some pretty big animals and if you are going to go bigger, you might as well go all the way up to .35.

Weagle

Exactly! Although sound in concept the 338 Federal is a 150 yard rifle when using bullets purposely built for faster and more powerful cartridges. Conversely, new bullets for the Federal round are a bad idea and will inevitably find their way into the more powerful rounds. Therein lies the reason I don't like it.

The farthest I have taken a deer with my 338 Federal has been 242yds with a 200 gr Hornady Spire point the bullet left a nice wound channel and was not recovered the deer DRT.

Deer aren't exactly tough to kill. That said, only an idiot would say that the 338 Federal can't kill past 150 yards, however, one must accept the risk of bullets failing to expand if ranges are stretched...

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Zebra taken with the 339 Federa and the 210 TSX. Shot was taken at about 100 yards




Damage to Zebra's heart by the 210 TSX and the 338 Federal




I can't phathom any thing lacking with that type of performance

Right on! The range was reasonable too.

didn't Craig Bodington's daughter kill a zebra with a 7-08, dead is dead. If shot into bone I could see a larger mass bullet doing more but that is just my opinion. If I drive a .277 caliber bullet thru an animals and it expands to .40 inches, while driving straight thru, then dead is dead. I just cannot see how a 7mm 150 grain bullet driven straight thru the animal is any less signifcant than a .34 caliber bullet driven straight thru, or a 9mm bullet driven thru. Now on the other hand if a 150 grain TSX will not penetrate and it takes a 286 grain bullet to penetrate a thick skinned animal, then that is perhaps another story. I am very very tempted to buy a 9.3 x 62 entirely to see if it shoots things deader faster. To me the .338 Federal is just not enough more to justify it.

This is not unlike many other comparisons between similar rounds.

The .338 Winchester Magnum has long been the standard for .338 caliber cartridges, it is by far the most popular and will likely continue to be well into the future. Most bullets that are developed are done so with it in mind.

Now consider the velocities of the .338 Federal - they are quite a bit lower than the big Winchester, but still not too bad. With 400 yard velocities around 1800fps, the 210gr Partition will still expand decently. The trajectory will suck something fierce at that range, but the numbers support a solid 250 yard big game round using "no brainer" trajectory calculations. The bullets will hit with authority and expand fully, I see no reason why that can't take the biggest elk on the mountain with good placement - that bullet will find vitals and the animal will drop dead.

The .358 is barely any different, but with Federal loading the .338 with several weights and bullet types, I'd pick it out of the two and it will likely have a little more life than the .358.

I have shot seven deer with the 338 Federal and twe with the 358 Winchester and more than I can remember with a 308. While dead is dead is rather tough to improve on, the athority on wich the 338 Federal and the 358 Winchester smacks em down has not gone unnoticed by me can't help but think that the larger frontal area and the little hevier bullet weights are not responsible for this.
Deer are not very hard to kill but if your quarry is larger I think the 338 Federal/358 Winchester would have its advantages.

Between the cartridges,
Flip a coin. You would never, ever be able to discern any appreciable differences between the two in the field.

But due to the fact that you have a 338-06, it would be nice to "share" reloading components.
And that is why I would pick the Federal over the 358.

a friend of mine shoots deer with a 220 swift and 53 grain barnes bullets. It smacks them down quite well, better than a 30-06! As does a .223 with 64 grain softpoints.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy P Coaltrain:
a friend of mine shoots deer with a 220 swift and 53 grain barnes bullets. It smacks them down quite well, better than a 30-06! As does a .223 with 64 grain softpoints.

Good for him.

I find it puzzling that some people believe the 338 Fed won't be able to expand a 338 bullet because they believe it belongs in a 338 win mag.

Many of these bullets are cup and core bullets, speer hotcore, Hornady SP etc... These will work just fine in a 338 Fed. What do you think will happen if a certain bullet is pushed out of a 338 Win Mag and it slows down to the 338 Fed velocity. Do you think it will fail to expand? I've been using the 185gr TSX bullets and they open just fine with a MV of 2750fps. Sounds like the 30-06 to me.

Really, if you don't like said cartridge, there's no need to BS curious people into believing something off the wall.

In the same token, the 338Fed and 358Win were not suppose to be long range, laser cartridges but 250 yards is indeed a safe shot for either.

Thanks for all the input, I hadn't really considered bullet construction in my decision. I do agree that dead is dead, and she has killed moose and elk with her 7-08, hasn't lost an animal yet. She has had to pass on some marginal shots though and wait for a better presentation and she seldom shoots over 250 yards anyway. I am leaning to the 338 for her and eventually building a 358 for myself. Like I said, I've always had a thing for the 358...

Well, with all that's been said, I have five rifles in .358 Win. and absolutely none in .338 Federal. I like the round. I like the .35 Whelen even better.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.

Weagle

How many bullets does one need? The 210 TSX is an excelent match for the 338 Federal.

Zebra taken with the 339 Federa and the 210 TSX. Shot was taken at about 100 yards


I can't phathom any thing lacking with that type of performance

Actually my point was that there are some excellent bullets available for the .338 federal, but the argument that it has more bullets available than the .358 doesn't hold water. The .358 has options at both the heavy and light end of the spectrum that just aren't available for the .338 and that in itself may be a reason to choose the .358 over the .338.

The same argument could be made for the 35 whelen over the .338-06.


Weagle

I don't have a 338 Federal, but have though about buying an A&B barrel from MidwayUSA to convert a Stevens 200.

I shot quite a few bullets from a 338-06 and a 338-284 before settling on the 210 grain BT and Partition. I can't image a situation where a 210 grain Partition wouldn't expend forward of the partition, even at pretty slow speeds. I'd agree that there are a lot more .358" bullets then there are .338" bullets, but there are enough .338" bullets to cover anything that I'd want to shoot with a 338 Federal.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy P Coaltrain:
I keep asking and no one ever responds...please tell me what can you kill with a 338 Federal or 358 winchester that you cannot kill with a 7-08 and a 150 grain Barnes TSX at 2600 FPS???

Jimmy,
I'm in correspondence with a gentleman that has used the 260Rem and 7mm/08 on scrub bulls (feral cattle) with absolute satisfaction ... and he doesn't use premium projectiles! From memory his impressions where that the 260Rem with a 140gr gave deeper penetration than what he was using in his 7mm/08 ... certainly both penetrated one shoulder and into the boiler room, with more pass throughs with the 260Rem. But life moves on ... this year he's testing (just finished load development) the 338Federal which he's had build on a Ruger MkI. This guy can hunt ... so I have no doubt he'll do great work with it. I'll be interested to see his impressions on the larger round.
Cheers...
Con

338-284

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
I find it puzzling that some people believe the 338 Fed won't be able to expand a 338 bullet because they believe it belongs in a 338 win mag.

Many of these bullets are cup and core bullets, speer hotcore, Hornady SP etc... These will work just fine in a 338 Fed. What do you think will happen if a certain bullet is pushed out of a 338 Win Mag and it slows down to the 338 Fed velocity. Do you think it will fail to expand? I've been using the 185gr TSX bullets and they open just fine with a MV of 2750fps. Sounds like the 30-06 to me.

Really, if you don't like said cartridge, there's no need to BS curious people into believing something off the wall.

In the same token, the 338Fed and 358Win were not suppose to be long range, laser cartridges but 250 yards is indeed a safe shot for either.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Cup & core bullets designed for the 338 Winchester are hunting bullets with sufficient jacket thickness for the intended game and velocity. Start them a few hundred feet slower in the 338 Federal and you will reduced your hunting range. That's a scientific fact. It is entirely reasonable to expect failures when distances grow beyond 250 yards.
Secondly, light for calibre bullets loose velocity faster than their heavier brethren. A light .338" bullet in the Federal round does not make it a long range number. The 338 earned its reputation the hard way -with bone smashing power and bullets possessing great sectional density.

quote:

Really, if you don't like said cartridge, there's no need to BS curious people into believing something off the wall.

quote:

I have BS'ed no one, and in fact I stated exactly why I don't care for the Federal round. If you can't read carefully, well, that's your problem.

The Hornady 200 grain spire point predates the 338 Federal by many years, it sure is puzzling that it works and performs so well in the 338 Federal. Especially since it is not supposed to work at all at the extremely sorry 338 federal velocities (mine chronos about 2579 fps).

I wonder what the heck Hornady was thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
338-284

No way ... 375/284!
Cheers...
Con

So from your statement, you're telling me I "will" see bullet failure in excess of 150 yards because 338 bullets aren't made for the velocity of the 338 Fed!

What happens when a 338 Win Mag bullet slows down to the 338 Fed velocity? bullet failure?


Come on, do you truly believe that?

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
I find it puzzling that some people believe the 338 Fed won't be able to expand a 338 bullet because they believe it belongs in a 338 win mag.

Many of these bullets are cup and core bullets, speer hotcore, Hornady SP etc... These will work just fine in a 338 Fed. What do you think will happen if a certain bullet is pushed out of a 338 Win Mag and it slows down to the 338 Fed velocity. Do you think it will fail to expand? I've been using the 185gr TSX bullets and they open just fine with a MV of 2750fps. Sounds like the 30-06 to me.

Really, if you don't like said cartridge, there's no need to BS curious people into believing something off the wall.

In the same token, the 338Fed and 358Win were not suppose to be long range, laser cartridges but 250 yards is indeed a safe shot for either.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Cup & core bullets designed for the 338 Winchester are hunting bullets with sufficient jacket thickness for the intended game and velocity. Start them a few hundred feet slower in the 338 Federal and you will reduced your hunting range. That's a scientific fact. It is entirely reasonable to expect failures when distances grow beyond 250 yards.
Secondly, light for calibre bullets loose velocity faster than their heavier brethren. A light .338" bullet in the Federal round does not make it a long range number. The 338 earned its reputation the hard way -with bone smashing power and bullets possessing great sectional density.

quote:

Really, if you don't like said cartridge, there's no need to BS curious people into believing something off the wall.

quote:

I have BS'ed no one, and in fact I stated exactly why I don't care for the Federal round. If you can't read carefully, well, that's your problem.

Does the same theory hold true for the 338-06? It's not a magnum using the same bullets. Would you say 175 yards then?

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
There may be more bullets available for the .338 but nearly all of the .338 bullets are designed for .338 win mag velocities. There are a pretty limited number of them that are a good match for the .338 fed.

In .35 cal there are plenty of heavy grain bullets, but as you mentioned you also have the selection of pistol bullets, plus the 180 Single shot pistol bullets, plus you can still get your hands on the 150 gr rem pointed CL's for a real screamer.

The 7mm08 will handle some pretty big animals and if you are going to go bigger, you might as well go all the way up to .35.

Weagle

Exactly! Although sound in concept the 338 Federal is a 150 yard rifle when using bullets purposely built for faster and more powerful cartridges. Conversely, new bullets for the Federal round are a bad idea and will inevitably find their way into the more powerful rounds. Therein lies the reason I don't like it.

The beauty of the 338 Federal is that it can be built in a light compact rifle that hits with authority. The 338 Federal's ballistics is on par with the time honored 318 Wastly Richards.

This 338 Federal (Kimber) wieghs 6 pounds scope included.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
So from your statement, you're telling me I "will" see bullet failure in excess of 150 yards because 338 bullets aren't made for the velocity of the 338 Fed!

"Although sound in concept the 338 Federal is a 150 yard rifle when using bullets purposely built for faster and more powerful cartridges.
That said, only an idiot would say that the 338 Federal can't kill past 150 yards, however, one must accept the risk of bullets failing to expand if ranges are stretched...

And for the record, the same theory holds true for the 338-06, albeit to a lesser degree. Conversely, one risks blowing up said bullets when launching them from the 338 super mags into game at close ranges. The good news is that those of us using such calibres know this, whereas those seeking the 338 Federal are generally looking for less recoil.
The price to be paid for higher performance is, of course, increased recoil. More than any other factor, heavy recoil is what has limited the popularity of previous medium bores: -cartridges such as the .348 Winchester, .35 Winchester, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, and .35 Whelen.
It has been estimated that 20 ft. lbs. is the maximum amount of recoil energy that the average shooter can tolerate. While the .338 Federal generates less recoil than the .338 Winchester magnum, it exceeds the theoretical 20 pound limit and is on par with the 338-06.
I don't see any benefit to owning a 338 Federal. My preferred brush buster is the .348 Winchester, and if I need more gun, I'll bring my 338 Winchester.

I think I will keep mine for a while yet and I think I will keep my 358s as well after all a guy cannot have enough toys evan if they are viewed as woefully inadequite by a few.

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:

Actually my point was that there are some excellent bullets available for the .338 federal, but the argument that it has more bullets available than the .358 doesn't hold water. The .358 has options at both the heavy and light end of the spectrum that just aren't available for the .338 and that in itself may be a reason to choose the .358 over the .338.

The same argument could be made for the 35 whelen over the .338-06.


Weagle

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Bullet selection is the one thing the .35 cals don't have going for them, yet there is a huge selection of bullet types/makes/weights available for the .338s.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
I don't see any benefit to owning a 338 Federal.I don't see any benefit to owning a 338 Federal. and if I need more gun, I'll bring my 338 Winchester.

The 338 Federal can be built light and handy, rifle and scope wieghing in at only 6 pounds, can you get a 348 Win that light

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
The beauty of the 338 Federal is that it can be built in a light compact rifle that hits with authority.

If I was to build a 338Federal, it would indeed be as an ultralight packpacking style rifle. The 308Win has dominated that market, and I feel the 338Federal is better suited where larger game are concerned. Most barrel makers are also happier using a soda-straw thin barrel profile for a 338cal then a 358cal.
If serious weight needs shaving ... the 338Federal may be ahead. Load it with a 185gr TSX and its a lot of stomp from a small cartridge.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
The 338 Federal can be built light and handy, rifle and scope wieghing in at only 6 pounds, can you get a 348 Win that light

Nope, wouldn't want one either. The 348 generates enough recoil to make one's eyes cross, but I know its 270 grain bullet will smash any animal if properly placed. In case you haven't noticed, I like heavy for calibre bullets, and the .338 Winchester magnum possesses that in spades.

The gentleman that took the Zebra in the picture that I posted was in his 80's and rather fraile at that. He had no problem with the 6 pound 338 Federal and shot it very well and loved it. After watching him take a few head of game with it I changed my view on the cartridge A proper stock fit is crucial to eliminating felt recoil. Lever guns all distribuate recoil in a negative manner.

Wow, some heated discussion on what I see as a coin toss. I'll throw my $.02 in.

On bullet selection between the two calibers. There are more bullets available in 338 than 358 but there are plenty of bullets in both calibers for ANYTHING you want to hunt.

On bullet construction, 338 and 358 bullets are made for a huge range of velocities. If you look at intended MVs of the Nosler Partition, Hornady SPs, and Barnes TSX they are all well within their intended design out to 300yds when fired by either cartridge. That works for most hunters. If you're looking for a 400yd+ cartridge, there are mush better selections than either the 338Fed or 358Win.

My primary hunting cartridges are 7mm-08 (6.5lbs), 338Fed(7.25lbs) and a 338WM(9.0lbs). All three compliment each other. I use the 7mm-08 for deer and the 338Fed goes along as backup. My 338Wm is for elk and larger and again the 338Fed is the back up. To me the 338Fed was a logical choice, I share powder (IMR4895) with the 7mm-08 and bullets (Hornady 200gr SP) with the 338WM.

While I wouldn't say that some of the above was BS, I would say that opinion was thrown out as fact when it isn't. In reality and practical application there is NO DIFFERENCE: go with the one you want. Even if that is using a TSX or NP in the 7mm-08.

RH

I bought my wife a .358 Win - she now uses it for almost everything (over her .260) . . . hartebeast, warthog, blesbok, springbok in Namibia and more recently, feral hog and axis here in Texas.




Never shot a .338 Federal, but when I was making the choice last summer, my reasoning was along the lines of "make a bigger hole".

Troy

I just ran the numbers in my ballistics program and the 358 pushing a 225 grn NPT to 2400 vs the 338 fed pushing the 210 grn NPT to 2500 are too close to call.

I would personally go with the 338 Federal for two reasons, one that you have other rifles in that cal and two that you will be able to find the ammo for the 338 fed much easier than the 358 Win shall the need arise.

If you are hunting an animal that takes a bigger pill than the .338 210 NPT from the Fed, a 358 will do you no good at all....

Reloader