O.K. every post that mentions the 35 Whelen there is always one or two guys who expouse the virtues of the 9.3X62 as a better cartridge. The reasons are given as higher bullet weight and more case capacity. This has always puzzled me as there is in .358" the 270gr North Fork, the 275gr Hawk with two jacket thickness, the 280gr Swift A-Frame, 300gr Hawk, and 310gr Woodleigh weld core. My Whelen has a one in 14" twist rate which should stabilize bullets up to 280grs so where is this huge advantage that most(europeans) rave about? What maybe 100fps, oh my god what a difference, oh yeah im sorry its the .008" of an inch that puts it in a class of its own? One could easily argue that the smaller diameter of the 35 will penetrate more, all thing considered. The fact that Norma ammo is usually around 40 or 50 bucks a box for 20, would turn me away plus the fact that there are literally dozens of bullet weights for the .358" from 124gr to 310gr, can the 9.3 claim that? So its seems to me at best thats its a wash, but as far as versatility the Whelen kicks ass! Flame away! This should be good...

I do not own either one, but have friends that do. Once you get above .338 for a bore size and .300 for the sectional density. If you use quality bullets, the animals all fall. Dead is dead. The only advantage the 9.3's seem to have is you can get ammo for them in Europe, Asia and Africa. That might not always be true with the 35 Whelen.

I would use either one for anything in the world if I had to.

fgulla,

The difference is potato, potahtoe. I picked the 9.3 just 'cuz it's more unique stateside...and because it's legal for DG in Africa. It's gonna be my second rifle there. But there are no flies on the Whelen. I'll be surprised if you get flamed for this post.

I use a 9,3x62 and one of my buddies a 35 whelan, both of us are very happy with them. Slow heavy bullets, little recoil and great stopping power...

Very similar calibers, none is best than another, just depends which ammo or reloading components you find where you live, nothing more.

Both of us have hunted boars, red deers, water buffalo, etc very well with them.

From time to time I try to explain him why the ol' german caliber is much better than the Whelan, but he is unable to see the light..

L

How about a 375-06 or 375 whelen?

I have had both and there really is little difference between the two. I'm a great fan of the whelen, I built one for my dad last year. I chose the 9.3 because my alaskan big game needs didn't need a bullet less than 250gr and the 9.3 with a 286 will do what a whelen will with a 250. That extra 36 grs can't hurt. THey are both excellent cartriges with interesting histories, I don't see any need to argue about them.

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
fgulla,

The difference is potato, potahtoe. I picked the 9.3 just 'cuz it's more unique stateside...and because it's legal for DG in Africa. It's gonna be my second rifle there. But there are no flies on the Whelen. I'll be surprised if you get flamed for this post.

Ok, so let me get this right... (phrasing this carefully) the 9.3x62 is the "243Winchester" of Cape Buffalo Hunting?

(I'm seeking shelter... INCOMMING!!!!)

AllanD

As already stated, there isn't enough difference between the two to worry about. If I was going to use something unique, I would go with a 375 Hawk/Scovill.

a recent phenomenon which has occurred that makes the 9.3 worth looking at is ammunition availability. about a month or two ago, i bought Prvi Partizan ammunition from Graf & Son's for under $20.00 per box. it seems to me it was more than $15.00 but less than $20.00. also, at the gun shows here, i have bought several boxes of Hirtenberger for $19.00 per box. this is all pretty good ammunition and especially for the price. ammunition for the Whelen, where i live, is usually in the neighborhood of $30.00 for Remington.

quote:

I picked the 9.3 just 'cuz it's more unique stateside...and because it's legal for DG in Africa.

Where is the 9.3 legal for Dangerous game? I thought there was pretty much a universal 375 limit as a minimum..........which the 9.3 does not meet.

That aside, I'd like to have a 9.3x62 someday just to compliment my Whelens.

If building a custom98,9.3x62 is the way. I know of anice custom98 in 35W that just wont sell. If it had been 9.3 it would have sold itself a few times over by now. Everytime someone picked it up, they said:"if only it was a 9.3..."

I have seen three cape buffalo shot from the side with the 9.3x62 using TUG bullets and none went more than 30 yards which suprised me. Even when fatally hit with larger calibres they usually go further. You can't go wrong with the 9.3x62 if large animals are at the end of your shooting spectrum.

VBR,

Ted Gorsline

Don't own either yet. If I were in the States, I'd get the .35 Whelen. Since I'm in Europe, I'll buy the 9,3X62.

It's all good. Shoot what you like.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
fgulla,

The difference is potato, potahtoe. I picked the 9.3 just 'cuz it's more unique stateside...and because it's legal for DG in Africa. It's gonna be my second rifle there. But there are no flies on the Whelen. I'll be surprised if you get flamed for this post.

Ok, so let me get this right... (phrasing this carefully) the 9.3x62 is the "243Winchester" of Cape Buffalo Hunting?

(I'm seeking shelter... INCOMMING!!!!)

AllanD

Allan and IronBuck,

It is my understanding that exception has been made for the 9.3x62...I could be mistaken. I am not planning on hunting DG with it...my DG rifle is a 404 Jeff. But if the 9.3 is what I have with me and opportunity presents itself, then that's what I'll use (provided it is legal--I'll know B4 I go!) I would probably say it is more the 22-250 of buffalo hunting!

I see the 9.3X62 as more of a novelty stateside, I dont think it is as practical or versatile as the Whelen unless Africa is in your sights. For as similar as they may appear, they do have some distint differences that set them apart. Most notably bullet and ammo availability.

Correct me if Im wrong, but as I understand it, the 9.3X62 is only "accepted" for DG in a few reigons of Africa, for the most part it is no more legal than a Whelen.

Wstrnhuntr,

You may be correct re: acceptance rather than legality of the 9.3x62. Maybe someone who's been there, or is there now and who knows for sure will tell us.

fgulla,

Didn't mean to hijack your thread!

..an old "accurate reloading" controversy has popped up again...

1) The 35 wheelchair is much cheaper for the
average american reloader+ plus much more components to find in "hut owl creek" and beyond. Animals aswell as humans won`t never know the difference when structed by whelen or the "Otto"

I believe the 9.3 can be used in Namibia for bagging biggame.
2)The 9.3 is an old gentleman which I have much easier to find componenets for over here, and yes.. the 9.3 case does hold more powder and have the "the egde" when it comes down the sheer performance. If I were to built a classic customrifle I would choose the 9.3

I believe the 9.3 can used in Namibia for bagging biggame

quote:

Originally posted by fgulla:
O.K. every post that mentions the 35 Whelen there is always one or two guys who expouse the virtues of the 9.3X62 as a better cartridge. The reasons are given as higher bullet weight and more case capacity. This has always puzzled me as there is in .358" the 270gr North Fork, the 275gr Hawk with two jacket thickness, the 280gr Swift A-Frame, 300gr Hawk, and 310gr Woodleigh weld core. My Whelen has a one in 14" twist rate which should stabilize bullets up to 280grs so where is this huge advantage that most(europeans) rave about? What maybe 100fps, oh my god what a difference, oh yeah im sorry its the .008" of an inch that puts it in a class of its own? One could easily argue that the smaller diameter of the 35 will penetrate more, all thing considered. The fact that Norma ammo is usually around 40 or 50 bucks a box for 20, would turn me away plus the fact that there are literally dozens of bullet weights for the .358" from 124gr to 310gr, can the 9.3 claim that? So its seems to me at best thats its a wash, but as far as versatility the Whelen kicks ass! Flame away! This should be good...

Of course the best solution is to own both! I have a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62 and I like them both.

I think Remington made a big mistake when they standardized the .35 Whelen with a 1-16" twist rate. Ruger also used this twist rate in their original M77's in .35 Whelen and also the M77 MkII special run a few years ago. (Special run for Davidson's.)

I've never tried bullets heavier than 250 grs in my .35 Whelen (that has 1-16" twist) but I've read where others have had problems with stability when trying to shoot 275-300 gr bullets in their .35 Whelens with a 1-16" twist. Finn Aagaard's articles on the .35 Whelen come to mind as an example.

I think the Whelen would be best served with a 1-12" or 1-14" twist rate to better stabilize bullets heavier than 250 grs. But, unfortunately, there really aren't that many bullets heavier than 250 grs available in .35 caliber. (Admittedly, there are more available now than there used to be.) There are several 286 gr bullets readily available for the 9.3mm.

The factory ballistics for each cartridge, using the standard heavy bullet for each, looks like this:

.35 Whelen .358" 250 gr SD=.279 2400 fps 3198 ft lb
9.3x62 .366" 286 gr SD=.305 2362 fps 3544 ft lb

(I'm using the standard factory velocity figures as a basis of comparison. Both cartridges can be loaded a little faster with good handloads.)

Where the Whelen comes up short is the sectional density. The standard in Africa, for dangerous game, is a sectional density of .300 or greater. The .35 Whelen doesn't quite make it. Also, the 9.3x62 has a little more muzzle energy (again, using factory load standards).

However, given a proper twist rate and loaded with a 275 gr bullet (SD=.307) at around 2300 fps or so, then the .35 Whelen would be very close to the standard 286 gr load in the 9.3x62.

Actually, I think that the .35 Whelen compares more closely to the old 9x57 Mauser than to the 9.3x62. The 9x57 fired a 247 gr .356" bullet at around 2300 fps. (I've seen it listed as 2296 and 2310 fps in different sources.) In velocity, energy, and sectional density, that's very close to the Remington factory standard 250 gr load in the .35 Whelen.

9x57 Mauser .356" 247 gr SD=.278 2300 fps 2902 ft lb
.35 Whelen .358" 250 gr SD=.279 2400 fps 3198 ft lb

The 9x57 Mauser was widely used and had a very good reputation in Africa prior to WW-II. It wasn't considered a good cartridge for dangerous game (elephant, rhino, and buffalo) but it was widely used for plains game. The 9x57 was even chambered in the Winchester Model 54 and American ammunition companies loaded ammo for it prior to WW-II. Of course, anything the 9x57 can do can easliy be done with the .35 Whelen.

And, we mustn't forget about the .350 Rigby Magnum. It fired a 225 gr .358" bullet at 2625 fps (original Kynoch ballistics). Again, not really suited to dangerous game (elephant, rhino, and buffalo) but it had a very good reputation in Africa for use on plains game. Of course, the .35 Whelen can easily duplicate the original ballistics of the .350 Rigby Magnum. (With today's modern powders the .350 Rigby can be handloaded somewhat hotter than original specs.)

Some good articles:

The .35 Whelen in Zimbabwe
http://www.african-hunter.com/35_whelen_in_zim.htm

The 9x57 Mauser
http://www.african-hunter.com/9x57_mauser.htm

The .350 Rigby Magnum
http://www.sahunt.co.za/sahunter/reload/350magnumrigby.html

The 9.3x62
http://www.african-hunter.com/the_9_3_x_62_mauser.htm

Both the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 are great, classic cartridges. They each have a long history of use in the field and a certain amount of nostalgia and romance about them that I find appealing.

-Bob F.

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
2)The 9.3 is an old gentleman ...

huh jens you made me think it over - always thought 9,3 is more like a she

...about legality in Africa check:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp.../123108421#123108421

The reasons to pick one over the other boil down to logistics. 35 Whelen ammo is scarce in Africa, but 9.3x62 ammo is scarce here.

Also, it's a bad idea to rely on bullets from smaller custom makers. If that firm goes belly up or has trouble shipping, you got no ammo. Been there, done that, sold the gun at a loss to keep from going back.


Okie John

Gents:

I have the perfect solution for this discussion, if thats possible. For us Americans, own a 35 Whelen. I can't see any need to shoot a bullet heavier than 250 grains in the Whelen any way! My loads are: 225 grain Ballistic tip @ 2700fps+, or a 250 grain Speer @ 2600fps+. For anything else, own a 375 H&H, and its all covered. No problem in other countries or here!

Regards

Jerry

BFaucett:
I wished you had mentioned the ancestor of the .35 Whelen, my personal favorite (and oft-quoted) cartridge... :-)

Carcano

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:
BFaucett:
I wished you had mentioned the ancestor of the .35 Whelen, my personal favorite (and oft-quoted) cartridge... :-)

Carcano

carcano91,

Well, I would have mentioned the 9x63 M/88 but I know very little about it. I've found it very difficult to locate any information about this cartridge here in the States. There is a brief mention of it in Cartridges of the World but that's about all I've seen.

-Bob F.

9.3 > 358 = better

Everything else being equal a bigger diameter is better. It's that's simple.

I have a .35 Whelen, a .35 whelen Improved Ackley and a 9.3 X 62. I took my 9.3 to Kodiak
this last spring out of the choices above.

I have a Ruger Model 77 in 35 Whelen that I use a lot. When I got the gun, I was not impressed by the performance it gave out of the factory 22 inch barrel. I had a friend that has a shop in Fruita, Colorado, rebarrel it with a 26 inch barrel and now it is a tossup on which I take hunting, the Whelen or my 375 H&H. Yes, I hunt feral hogs and whitetail deer in Texas with those 2 guns.

The reason many people choose the 9,3x62 over the 35 Whelen?

The 9,3x62 it the original - the 35 Whelen is the copy.

As to the arguments about availability of 9,3x62 components in the USA, the last time I checked the US was not a part of the third world and had a good postal service.

And those of us who live in the third world buy a 9,3 because the legal minimum caliber for Buff, ele and hippo is 9,2mm where I live and 9,3mm just over all 5 borders. Also you can buy ammo and reloading components for a 9,3 and I don't even have a 35 Whelen in my bullet collection.

Try and find a solid in .358. Advantage 9.3

To me the difference comes down to the ability to shoot a little farther with the Whelen and to hit a little harder with the 9.3.
With a good hand load I can get the 250 grain Whelen, to 2600 Fps, and that will do real well for 300 yard elk.
I think the 286 grain 9.3 would be real good for moose and big bears out to about 200.
I see an old rather worn Husqvarna 9.3X62 at every big gun show I go to. Its cool but I can't see spending the 900.00 the guy wants for it. But If I ever see an FN factory chamberd for the Big mauser, (don't know if there is such a critter) I would try to scrape up the cash...tj3006

Just trying to even things up a bit

.358 solid

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=544327

JBadams 66
I didn't know about those. A Square solids generally have a good reputation although I've never used them. Other than the available bullets the difference between these cartridges seems to be nil.

Just FYI: Woodleigh makes 225 gr and 310 gr solids in .358 caliber.

-Bob F.

I like them both, but the Whelen is going to Africa in June with me. And it will be tossing 225gr Barnes TSX's at the critters.
Craven

I haven't tried working up a load for them yet, but I recently bought a box of 358 Barnes solids off of eBay. They are really impressive looking, and should do a number on a feral hog. JMO

I forgot, they are 250 grain solids.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
To me the difference comes down to the ability to shoot a little farther with the Whelen and to hit a little harder with the 9.3.
With a good hand load I can get the 250 grain Whelen, to 2600 Fps, and that will do real well for 300 yard elk.
I think the 286 grain 9.3 would be real good for moose and big bears out to about 200.
I see an old rather worn Husqvarna 9.3X62 at every big gun show I go to. Its cool but I can't see spending the 900.00 the guy wants for it. But If I ever see an FN factory chamberd for the Big mauser, (don't know if there is such a critter) I would try to scrape up the cash...tj3006

My old Husky 9.3x62 whacks the 300 yd gong at my range with 286gr loads almost every time - no problem.

This is with the original open sights.

The front beads were set up for 300 yds originally in these rifles.

If you think the 9.3 is not a 300yd caliber, you would be wrong.

It can do it if need be.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
How about a 375-06 or 375 whelen?

What, no takers? If the 9.3 is better that the .358, surely the .375 cal would be the next step.

Necking up the 9.3x62 case to .375 with its shorter neck and larger shoulder dia resulting in more powder should be a great cartridge.

You could push a 250 grain bullet at 2700fps (338 Win Mag) and get 4 down in a standard action.

You can't do anything with one that you can't do with the other. Factory ammo and reloading components are cheap and available for both.

For me personally it would boil down to what kind of rifle I wanted. A nice Springfield, M-70, M77 would have a .35Whelen barrel on it. A Mauser, M/S or variant would have to be a 9.3X62.

With the exception of DG and the laws that govern that type of hunting, I personally think the good old .30-06 out shines both

Terry

I'm of the opinion that the heavier .358 bullets listed above are tougher constructed and better suited for 358 Norma Mag velocities.

I do believe that the 9.3X62 has the ability to push a bullet of equal weight a tad bit faster due to more case capacity. I also think that one of the Hawk or Hawk/Scovill's has a bit more case capacity because it is actually based off the 9.3 shoulder and not the '06 shoulder.

In the end, a 350RemMag and/or a 35Whelen pushing a 250 grain bullet 2500fps is tried, true and proven. Most mathematical formulas (if you use them) will show that this combo is good for up to 1000 pound game weight out to 150 yards. If you have used this combo to take game vs. read about it, you will know that w/in a reasonable range this combination works extremely well!!!!!