Some years ago, once I got out of school and got a job, I started to be able to outfit my own hunting/fishing gear. I decided on getting a 2-7 because of the brushier habitat in which I hunt deer.

I have a new Browing X-bolt 308 (getting the trigger fixed at the factory) and a Ruger M77 7X57 (only just now shooting acceptably but not great) with Leupold Vari-X II's 2-7. I'm working on an optimal load for the 308 X-bolt. I'm wondering about the difference in accuracy the lower magnification and target resolution between 7X and 9X magnification.
Would I notice much or any difference between 5 and 6 shot groups using a 7 power vs. a 9 power scope? I'm wondering if my lesser ability to pick out the very center of target as precisely and KNOW EXACTLY where I'm aligning the reticle will open-up the groups? (I'm shooting from a bench on sandbags.) To really tell, I'd have to swap-out scopes, and I really DON'T want to waste the ammo and time to do that!

Farflung, Being a displaced NY'r I can relate to the brushy conditions. That said it is often easier to adjust the target to the scope. The extra power while significant in some aspects will not make the rifle shoot any better

I would venture that once you establish a good accurate load for your rifle, or any sporting rifle for that matter, your groups of 5 shots(3 shot groups not as telling as a 5 shot group I have found) will most likely be 1/2"(.5moa) or greater at 100 yards. Nothing wrong with that level of performance at all, and is indeed good for a sporting rifle. The difference between 7x and 9x magnification will have little impact providing the scope is of quality. You may be able to see just a bit better, but 1/2" groups of five or more are routinely delivered w/ skilled shooters using micrometer match/iron sights and no magnification and at ranges much greater than 100 yards. Again,if you have a quality scope, any variance/enlargement of groups will most likely not be due to the scope itself and more than likely the "trigger puller." "Flyers" happen to all of us whether using bags/benches or from prone/sling and if it were me would not be too concerned about the different power settings w/ the small spread of magnification you mention. Older scopes of lesser quality did reveal a point of impact change w/ different power settings but not common in quality optics based on my experience. Good luck with your shooting!!

martin

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
have found) will most likely be 1/2"(.5moa) or greater at 100 yards. Nothing wrong with that level of performance at all, and is indeed good for a sporting rifle.

martin

Oh, no, sorry if I mistated something. The Browining is shooting about 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds. That's why I'm asking. I thought it would be better than that and I was wondering if a greater magnification scope with a better look at the bullseye could allow for tighter groups.

The target you select will have more effect on your group size than 2X will.

I like a fat 200 yard target (set at 100 yards) for my 1.5-5X scopes...you will have to experiment to see what works best for you.

yes it could.
but this is a hunting rifle,even if it shoots 1-1/2" groups that is still 14" smaller than the zone on a deer.

The magnification would definitely help. That's why Cooper's test targets show that they were shot using a 36x scope.

Higher magnification will make a difference in group size when you are working in the hundredths of an inch range with a highly accurate bench gun. For sporter hunting rifles like you mention, you'll see no discernable difference in group size between a 7x scope and a 9x scope. Even fine iron aperture sights are capable of shooting sub-moa groups at 100 yards.

That 2-7X you have is one of the most versatile scope power ranges you can buy for game hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Higher magnification will make a difference in group size when you are working in the hundredths of an inch range with a highly accurate bench gun. For sporter hunting rifles like you mention, you'll see no discernable difference in group size between a 7x scope and a 9x scope. Even fine iron aperture sights are capable of shooting sub-moa groups at 100 yards.

That 2-7X you have is one of the most versatile scope power ranges you can buy for game hunting.

X 2 roger

I don't know if there is reason for this but I find I shoot much better groups on overcast days than bright sunny days. When we were silhouette shooting we would have to re-zero our guns if there was a significant change in conditions day to day. For giggles one time we shot groups with out 7/08 using Premier boosted Leupold variables at different magnifications. Our conclusion was no difference. I've also found that I should use the smallest dot I can see to sight in. I get sloppy with my hold if the aiming point is large.

I think the cross hairs on my scope cover about an inch at 100 yards and so would not expect to be able to shoot a group smaller than 1 inch at that range so that might be a limiting factor.

However, as others have said you can usually get a target to suit your scope/distance and I found one on the Nosler site which has the target as a small diamond in the middle of a bigger diamond. I can put the cross hairs on each corner of the big diamond. You can see the target here:

http://www.nosler.com/?p=20

Anyhow I can sometimes, when I do OK, shoot pretty good groups on that middle diamond by lining up with the corners rather than the centre. I would often shoot using the 4 targets around the outside but they don't have the big diamond and I never shoot as good groups on them. I'm shooting a fixed 8 power scope.

Take a look at the target on the Nosler page and you will see what I mean, download it and give it a try and I'm sure it will work for you.

quote:

Higher magnification will make a difference in group size when you are working in the hundredths of an inch range with a highly accurate bench gun. For sporter hunting rifles like you mention, you'll see no discernable difference in group size between a 7x scope and a 9x scope. Even fine iron aperture sights are capable of shooting sub-moa groups at 100 yards.

That 2-7X you have is one of the most versatile scope power ranges you can buy for game hunting.

X3 Gerry

With a higher powered scope on your Browning you will still have 1.5" groups - you'll be able to see the 1.5" sized groups better though.

FWIW - A higher power scope will produce tighter groups if you have trouble seeing the exact center of your target. Increasing scope power usually allows you to do this. I know that I can certainly shoot a better group with a proven load at 100yds. using 9X - 12X than a 4X scope. To shoot an accurate group you must be able to aim spot on and lower powers just don't cut it for my eyes. Also I do most of my load development (group shooting) at 50yds to minimize human error and this very thing of seeing the exact center of the target.

Larry Sellers
SCi Life Member

When I'm seriously working up loads I put the 6-24X scope on my guns (even 22 rimfires) and use the smallest target that I can focus on. Generally I use 1/2" diamonds and using the highest power that I can see through for the conditions and I aim for the very bottom of point of the diamond. I find that focusing on the smallest target possible results in the smallest groups for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Farflung:
I decided on getting a 2-7 because of the brushier habitat in which I hunt deer.

Hey Farflung, As you age, you will notice the advantage of Higher Power. I was watching a pair of Deer through my 10x binoculars that could not be seen with just my eyes - too dark inside the woods/swamp on an overcast morning with a HEAVY canopy of limbs and leaves.

Decided to go on and Blast the larger Doe, but her head movements were a bit abnormal. Cranked the scope up waaaaaay past 9x to 20x and what should I see but "Spikes".

I use a bit more Power than a lot of folks because of things I've learned along the way. But, everyone should use what they want.

quote:

I'm wondering about the difference in accuracy the lower magnification and target resolution between 7X and 9X magnification. Would I notice much or any difference between 5 and 6 shot groups using a 7 power vs. a 9 power scope?

Depends on the Scopes. If they are both the same "Model" of Leupold, there won't be much difference. If it is a VX-1 compared to a VX-III, then the difference would be noticable. But that is easy enough for you to see for yourself, by looking through both, at a distant object, at dusk - even out a window in a dark room.

quote:

I'm wondering if my lesser ability to pick out the very center of target as precisely and KNOW EXACTLY where I'm aligning the reticle will open-up the groups?...

For me, that would indeed be a problem with a (weenie) 7x. However, I'll go out on a limb and suggest you "might" do better by simply shooting at the "Corner" of a Black Square - even with the 7x. Just snug the Reticle right up to a corner and when a very fine white line remains "beside" both the Verticle and Horizontel crosshairs, and your breathing is under control, you are ready.

Shooting at a circle works just fine for a lot of folks, but I have better luck with a Black Square.

Best of luck to you.

IMO, with fixed 4X through my 3X9's, I shoot the best by using four 1.5" squares set two on two spaced about 1.5" apart. Using duplex 4X reticles I hold on the white space in the middle of the 4 squares, I hold on the center of a square using 6x, and I hold on a corner of a square using 9x.
Gives me a good sight picture at 100 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
When I'm seriously working up loads I put the 6-24X scope on my guns (even 22 rimfires) and use the smallest target that I can focus on. Generally I use 1/2" diamonds and using the highest power that I can see through for the conditions and I aim for the very bottom of point of the diamond. I find that focusing on the smallest target possible results in the smallest groups for me.

Good message; If you really want to hone in than high magnification with Vs or Diamonds are as good as it gets. roger

quote:

you'll see no discernable difference in group size between a 7x scope and a 9x scope.

100% correct IMO.

One of the best things you can do for tighter groups is adjust your trigger pull. I have two A-Bolts and when I adjusted the trigger pull to 2.75 lbs, my groups got better and more consistent. I also am a fan of higher magnification scopes. I want to see the same spot on the target as clearly as I can. I also like scopes with thin reticles. The Nightforce NP-R2 reticle is my favorite. Those things made a difference for me. Of course you have to have an accurate rifle too.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
IMO, with fixed 4X through my 3X9's, I shoot the best by using four 1.5" squares set two on two spaced about 1.5" apart. Using duplex 4X reticles I hold on the white space in the middle of the 4 squares, I hold on the center of a square using 6x, and I hold on a corner of a square using 9x.
Gives me a good sight picture at 100 yds.

I use 4x scopes on most of my rifles and the target that Westernmassman describes allows me to shoot sub MOA groups even though my vision is going to heck.

The higher magnification may help may help your groups at the range which helps with confidence.
You obviously have never needed it in hunting situations. Keep those 2 X 7s.

My eyes are very iffy; when I shoot for accuracy testing, I use a fixed 36x scope. I can shoot noticeably better during load development with the target scope than with a hunting scope. Once I've determined the most accurate load, I switch scopes and re-zero.

It is entirely possible that someone with perfect vision wouldn't need to use the high-powered target scope.

I find different reticles lead to different expectations of group size from a known rifle and load.

With a decent duplex reticle, sub moa shooting is easy enough even with 4x, if the rifle is up to it. Its easier to shoot smaller with a that same reticle and more power, but the returns diminish quickly, imo. Proper focus brings greater returns, and few seem to go to the trouble to get that as right as it can be.

Some of the best hunting reticles don't lend themselves to the best target shooting though, and this is where one scope for load development and then switching to your hunting scope and rezeroing makes sense, imo. (But be forwarned, it can be annoying resighting with a moa group or more when you know the rifle and load will do better. For me, it leads to too much fussing around rezeroing, rather than leaving things alone when I've rezeroed to the potential of the scope. A 1/4" off, which might be obscurred by the moa or moa+ group, even if its moving around some because of scope reticle limitations on repeatable hold, doesn't add up to a hill of beans in a hunting rifle - at least at the ranges I'll shoot.)

JPK

I can tell virtually no difference with any power of 6x or over. A 4x will make a noticeable difference however.

While the target is easier to see with a higher power, the noticable rifle movement will increase just as much.

Conclusion = No it is not really easier to hit the target with a higher magnificaton except maybe at the shooting bench using a very good rest, but not in the field.

Shooting off the bench was what the poster was referring too, no?