Well just to give you guys some background before I start the debate. I am currently in love with my savage 112 bvss in 7 mag w/leupold 6.5 to 20, but I have recently got the urge for a 338. why, I don't know because the 7 mag does a great job and the 338 winnie is basically the same case as the 7. So I'm not concerned with justification just personal experiences. Does the 338 RUM give me any noticeable advantages over the 338 Winnie?

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Does the 338 RUM give me any noticable advantages over the 338 Winnie?

You did say NOTICABLE................IMO no.

Are you a handloader? If not then steer clear of all RUMs.

If you really want more than a .338 Win Mag ... go to a .375 H&H!

The .338 Win Mag works well for everything in NA but the largest bear. Rifles get kinda specialized for those beasties ... and a bit heavy to hike up the mountain.

Sorry dog I did mean noticeable. I had surgery on my wrist last week and my typing skills are greatly diminished with the cast on.

Mike I do reload but the 7 is my first mag so I have never loaded mag cases. I hear they can be difficult. When I am able I plan to work up a load for the 7. It is shooting factory ammo at a 1/2 moa so I haven't been real worried about working up a load yet.

the only factory ammo that I have been able to find for the rum is a 250gr bullet. I know the winnie gives me more options but I can't find a winnie like I want. I would like to have a laminated or nice synthetic in a heavy barrel stainless.

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Sorry dog I did mean noticeable. I had surgery on my wrist last week and my typing skills are greatly diminished with the cast on.

there will be a NOTICEABLE item.....recoil!!!

The RUM will give you greater reach & hit a bit harder at all distances, but the price you'll pay is recoil. If you want a thumper & are hunting under 350yds, I would step up to a .375h&h.

My own hunting style dictates a 21 or 22" bbl'd 338 WM.

However, to me, I think the 338 RUM is probably the best of the RUM's, particularly those under 33. The Rem factory tube is, however, too light for such a round IMO. In a custom rifle with a 25" barrel that mic's .650-.700" and with an overall rifle weight over 9lbs this round makes sense. It can always be loaded down to 340 WBY velocities too!

I guess it depends on the range you hunt. If your looking for long range i beleive the .338's shine over the 375's at 300yards the 338 win. mag with a 250 grain bullet hits with 2390 FP while the 338 ultramag is hitting with over 2800FP( not sure if 400 FP means anything at 300 yards . At that range even the 375 ultra mag hits with 2270FP (less then the 338's)I hear recoil is high with the ultra mags and if you need to up the velocitys in the 338 win. mag you could always load up with federal high energy or Hornady magnums , they both just about reach the ultra mag levels and are still less expensive.Plus you can get 338 win. mag ammo and componants just about anywhere. Later Tanoose

Factory ammo for the RUMs is exorbitant and very limited in bullet selection as well. If it is what you want get it but handloading is really the best way to get the performance you are looking for. Factory ammo for 338 win is tough to beat by much and isn't nearly as expensive.

I don't want anything to do with a rifle with a 26" or longer bbl., nor do I want anything to do with any of the RUMs, including the 338 RUM. I dislike shooting 340 Wbys., et al, and I actually do better work with the 375 H&H and 416 Rem. Mag. than I do the bigger 338s.

In this bore size, if I can't get it done with a 8.5 lb. 338 Win. Mag. with a 24" bbl., I won't be getting it done with anything else, and probably not as well.

Based on what I've seen at our rifle club over the years, most of the guys with the ultra-big 338s talk a much better game than they play.....

AD

I sold my .338 Win when the .338 RUM came out and absolutely love it! I honestly do not notice much of a difference in recoil (there is a little more) but I think a lot of the heavy recoil rumours come form the writers and then it just keeps rolling like most rumours do. It does snap a bit when loading 275 A-frames however, but the 225's and lower don't seem much different.

I have recently been working on my 225 TSX loads that I used to kill a cow in August (508 yards) and have gotten them down to just under 1/2" at 100 while doing 3150-3197 fps. That particular load has about as much energy at 400 yards as an '06 has at the muzzle. Is an animal going to know the difference? Maybe, maybe not, but I like having the headspacing off the shoulder rather than a belt and case life seems better than when I had the winnie. There is something to be said about the wallop it packs though; of course (not to reopen the shot placement with a .243 is just as good as a ...blah...blah..blah...debate) my partner killed a cow with a .270 at 200 yards and his animal stood for awhile and ran a bit, mine dropped like a ton of bricks (hit in the spine) so I guess to compare the two would the .270 shot at 510 in the spine had the same effect? Would the .338 RUM in the chest at 200 have a different effect?

Would a .338 Winnie be any different?

Give the RUM a try, it will at least give you an excuse to buy another rifle......

It does get expensive dumping 97-103 grains of Retumbo or H1000 each time......

IV

I own the 338 RUM and I don't use a brake when hunting just on the bench for sighting in. It has with the 250gr bullet about 4500 FT. LBs. of recoil. I don't think thats bad holding the gun tight. With the 185 gr bullets going 3200 fps it has about 3700 ft lb of recoil. The 225gr and the 200gr bullets have about between 3900 and 4200 ft lb of recoil. None of these rounds are real bad. I think the RUM is great I like it so much I just ordered a 300 RUM also.

Forget the .338 RUM. With the way sales are going most likely Remington will drop it in the near future anyway. Advantage of the .338 Win. Mag. over the .338 RUM is availability of ammo. You can get .338 Win. Mag. ammo most everywhere where the .338 RUM won't be found. And with a bad wrist you don't want the added recoil the RUM's generate either. Lawdog

Thanks for all the help guys. For those that suggest the big bores sorry but I'm just not turned on by the big bores yet. Of course I was't turned on by mags until I got one. I really don't even know why I want a 338. All I hunt is deer and I have killed more deer than some people ever see and until recently never used anything bigger than a 243. moral of the story. I want a 338. maybe I will get a big bore too and see if it turns me on like the mags.

Thanks

The .338 win mag will do the job, the Rums have the ability to reach out farther I suppsoe and touch some thing with more punch.

The same people who always pay out on the RUMs etc. on this froum had only be better shooting 30/06's and not .300 win mags, because the choice principals that apply to those rounds also apply to why you would choose a RUM over a win mag, and ther always judgemental and constantly critizcise everyone else's choices, stinks of insecurity that others have varying opinions to there own........they must require constant re-inforcement, the internet seems the perfect place to get it

Anyway I see that the RUMS have a niche and if they float your boat get one, it will shoot flatter and hit harder than the win mag..........you just have to lube up and take your medicine, and thats a little more recoil. For me I see the RUMS as being mated to heavy barrelled varmint style guns either .338 or .300.

THe .375 RUM is Basically used by Saeed I think but in it's wild cat form the .375/404.......he has good results from it and plays I big game I beleive

Even though I'm sure PC could categorize me as a hypocrit I'll also give my vote to the 338 win mag, despite the fact I also like the 300 win mag.

The way I look at is, the 338 win mag is the standard .338 bore, with factory ammo, brass and dies easily obtained. It also have enough moxy for any critter I'd use it for, and without to much objection on the shoulder. I just don't care for jabbing recoil, and I just don't see how folks firing 338 rums of reasonable weight aren't getting jabbed on their shoulders when they light one off.

Now, if I were looking for the pre-eminet 400-500 yd elk rifle, I'd likely choose a 338 rum, as I can't think of many other chamberings that offer the performance I'd demand at those ranges on large animals. Asside from that specialized role, I'd stick with the plain jane win mag, or go with a bigger bore if I wanted more power.

Hey, PC, when these questions come up, I assume the person who made the initial post is looking for opinions. So, I contributed mine. If my response sounded insecure and hypocritical, well..........I guess that's just the way it is!

I do try to give honest answers, but they don't always please everyone, I've learned that much a long time ago around here.

AD

I can vouch that there is a big difference in recoil between the 338RUM/340 Weatherby, and the 338 Win Mag. It seems that when those size cases start pushing that much powder out that size of a hole, recoil increases dramatically. There is a tremendous increase in recoil between the High Energy offerings from Federal and Hornady for the 338 Win Mag, compared to the standard loads from the other companies. My shoulder told me so... the recoil felt close to the 340 Weatherby I had, which for me is more than I want.

At that diameter of bullet, I think increased bullet size, at modest velocites is a better way to go, as opposed to higher velocities in the smaller bore size.

If you want more power than the 338 Win Mag offers, go to the 375 H&H, or I suppose the 358 Norma is an option. Bullets aren't as readily available though.

A friend of mine used a 375 H&H for moose one time. Sure "pole-axed" that moose!

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Hey, PC, when these questions come up, I assume the person who made the initial post is looking for opinions. So, I contributed mine. If my response sounded insecure and hypocritical, well..........I guess that's just the way it is!

I do try to give honest answers, but they don't always please everyone, I've learned that much a long time ago around here.

AD

No worries mate................I re-read my post and I think I forgot to have my morning coffee

I just feel that there are applications for some of these rounds and there is an opportunity cost as well thats a given.

Hey jro45, what kind of rifle are you shooting that give's you 4500 ft/lb's of Recoil. damn. i thought my 300 rum. swatted good at 35 lb's of recoil.

I like and do load fore the 338 RUM. There is no doubt in my mind that it is in fact king of the .338" bore size. The RUM offers a much improved trajectory without an order of magnitude increase in recoil, but it will cost you +2" of barrel to gain 200 FPS. Look at it like this -the 338 Winchester is the -06 of medium bores, whereas the 338 UM is the 300 Win Mag of medium bores. What does this mean? Simply that the 338 UM has a point blank range that bests the Winchester and Weatherby rounds, and does so without freebore.

Only a fool would badmouth the 375H&H, but it along with the 338 Winchester, have something in common; a trajectory very much like the .30-06. Combine that great trajectory with enough power to stop a freight train and therein lies reason enough to be popular, and in fact they are perennial favourites.

Had Winchester gone with the .284' instead of the .264" and Remington developed more and better .323" bullets, I think modern gun history would be very different today and the 8m/m would be receiving the attentiion it rightly deserves.

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The RUM will give you greater reach & hit a bit harder at all distances, but the price you'll pay is recoil. If you want a thumper & are hunting under 350yds, I would step up to a .375h&h.

RUM's will not make it in SA and nor the WSM's. Bullet performance is governed by impact velocity and not the higher energy value of the projectile. Magnums are often bought in the mistaken believe that they hit harder at all ranges, when in fact the inceased velocity works agains bullet performnace with Softs, as it invariably causes weight loss and shattering, and such a gun (ULTRA or SUPER Magnum) is confined to the use of ULTRA strong bullets ... not for me, even if you give it to me for free, unless I am short of wood for a barbeque fire.

If you can't come right with a 300 Win Mag or a 338 Win Mag for plains game, you pin your hopes on a falacy.

Chris Bekker

[QUOTE]Originally posted by buckshot:
I like and do load fore the 338 RUM. There is no doubt in my mind that it is in fact king of the .338" bore size.QUOTE]

Buckshot- Just curious as to why you feel the .338 RUM is king of the.338 bore size???

IMO where the Ultra's/the 340's and the KT's will overcome the std 338 WM is if you're serious about shooting past 400 yds.

If you're not serious then I can't imagine somone going to a bigger 33 that then plain old 338 WM (kind of sick to call it the plain old isn't it!).

Also IMO the 33's big or small are some of the most accurate rounds out there. I'm on my 4th 340 tube and all of them have shot about like your average varminter. (all using 4.5 weight Schneiders for what that is worth).

Are they worth it for most uses and users I'd say absolutely not, but then again they very fun to work with. I can also say that ab out a lot of the rounds out there!

The 338 WM is in very good company,and is one of a couple of rounds that I could easily use to hunt the rest of my days. Any place,any critter give me a rifle that fits, and a good preme bullet and I would never once look back. Nothing that Noah could toss out at me would give me pause. And petty much no topography out there would make me nervous to hunt it with either.

IMHO it is one of the top rounds ever made, and for a rifle that goes less than 8.5 lbs it is just that much more user friendly than the big 33's (RUM/Wby's). The really big 33's can get a bit caustic after they start going below 8.5 IME.

Just my humble thoughts, looks like snow today in the hills....

MD

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Originally posted by Richard Wayne:
Hey jro45, what kind of rifle are you shooting that give's you 4500 ft/lb's of Recoil. damn. i thought my 300 rum. swatted good at 35 lb's of recoil.

I shoot the 338 RUM with 250gr bullets at 3000 FPS and that gives me 4500 FT/LBS of recoil.

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Originally posted by UltraMag:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by buckshot:
I like and do load fore the 338 RUM. There is no doubt in my mind that it is in fact king of the .338" bore size.QUOTE]

Buckshot- Just curious as to why you feel the .338 RUM is king of the.338 bore size???

UltraMag-
Of all the 338s available, the Remington UM is the only "super mag" easily afordable to the joe who wants one. That can't be said about the Lapua, Dakota, Lazeroni etc. One can buy a Sendero, equip it with quality glass, and spend a fraction of what the others cost. In fact, only Weatherby comes close, excluding the Tika and some other I'm sure I forgot.

I also like the case size, shape, and the neck that will afford a good purchase on any bullet one would want to use. Add to that the fact that a guy can afford to loose some brass while hunting, not so with the others.

In general I'm also cranked that Big Green chose the 338, because it has to be one of the least fussy calibres to make shoot well. I also like it because it uses bullet of a better SD than what the 358 STA offers, and it will do it with less recoil. Not much of an argument there since they all kick hard. If there were no such thing as 33 calibre, I probably own the 375 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Wayne:
Hey jro45, what kind of rifle are you shooting that give's you 4500 ft/lb's of Recoil. damn. i thought my 300 rum. swatted good at 35 lb's of recoil.

I shoot the 338 RUM with 250gr bullets at 3000 FPS and that gives me 4500 FT/LBS of recoil.

Hey jro45

I think you must be thinking of muzzle energy rather than recoil. Here is a handy & easy calculator for recoil:

http://sst.benchrest.com/recoil.html

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RUM's will not make it in SA and nor the WSM's

Chris

Out of curiousity, why not the WSMs? I would have thought at least the 300wsm would be reasonably popular there for open plains shooting - being almost as effective as a 300 Win Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by MLG:

quote:

RUM's will not make it in SA and nor the WSM's

Chris

Out of curiousity, why not the WSMs? I would have thought at least the 300wsm would be reasonably popular there for open plains shooting - being almost as effective as a 300 Win Mag.

MLG,

Got to agree with you on this. In fact all the WSM's(and WSSM's) are out selling the RUM's and the RSAUM. Even Remington is now chambering their rifles for the WSM cartridges. The 'bean counters' at Remington decides what is going to stay and what gets dropped. First move is to add what sells(the WSM's) and then drop what isn't selling(the RSAUM). The end of the RSAUM's is not far away. And the end of the two worst selling of the RUM's(.338 & .375) is not far behind either. "Turn out the lights, the party's over. They say all good things must end..." Lawdog

Buckshot- Thanks for the explanation you gave. The .338 cal is one of if not my favorite calibers so I was curious to know your thoughts.

I have quite a bit of .338's that are bigger then the RUM so when you mentioned "King of the .338 bore size" I wondered if you meant the biggest .338 cal.

Aloha!!!

I've always kinda thought of the 338 Laupa as the King of the 338 bore.

It's hard to beat a 338 Win Mag when you need something bigger than an 06 and smaller than a 375 H&H...

Tex

As far as factory chamberings go, 338/378 is the big daddy.

I think that if you already have a 338 win mag then the 338 ultra mag is an overlap.I skipped to the Weatherby 338-378 as my long rang gun and never looked back.It adds about 300 yards to the 338 win mag.If you reload its worth looking into .If not then use the heavy loads for the 338 win mag.I find myself using my Weatherby 338-378 way more than my 338 in the open tundra of alaska.There is nothing wrong with the 338 ultra mag but I think it will be gone as a factory chambering in 5 years.The ammo is twice as much as 338 win mag but the preformance is not.I wanted a 338 ultra mag in Sendero but I got two Weatherby 338-378 accumarks that will last my life time.I do use my 338 win mags for deer hunting mostly and black bears.There is nothing wrong with a good 338 of any caliber as long as you can get brass.

Part of the reason I bet that you like the 7 mag so much is because of the performance of the platform it's on, the Savage 112bvss!

As far as the differences between the 338 Win and RUM: whatever's on the receiving end will probably not see any difference IMHO unless you specialize in long range and run a long barrel on the RUM. Your end will see the difference in recoil for that extra fps.

As far as having to have a reason to buy a 338; as long as you want one that's reason enough. I own a 7 Mag, 300 Mag and 375 Mag, and I want a 404 Jeffrey. There is no good reason to own any of them where I live, except that I wanted them.

jro45, 4500ft# of recoil would probably kill you Before the bullet killed it's target. But we know you meant muzzle energy.
I'ld build a RUM if I were looking ofr a ultra long range game rifle. A M700 w/ a heavy 26"bbl. but that's not my style of hunting so a .338wm works for me in a managable rifle.