With all of the hoopla about the 6.5 Creedmoor, I've been wondering why you couldn't just use a faster twist barrel on say a 260 REM and use longer bullets to achieve the same results. Saw an article in Outdoor Life titled "Modern Cartridge Design" that explained the design of the chamber and lead as well as the cartridge all being optimized to enhance downrange accuracy and energy without burning lots of powder with the inherent increase in muzzle velocity and blast like the typical magnum.
I tried to find the article on their web page but didn't have any luck. It was in the Winter 2019 issue.
Makes a lot of sense and sounds like we are going to see many more cartridges designed like this in the future.
Not going to run out and buy one yet but might "need" to someday.

Trying to use those very long bullets in the 260 you have to seat the bullet so deep in the case the neck of the case is out past where the straight shank of the bullet meets the ogive.
To fix this they shortened the case. This gave you a cartridge that could seat these long bullets out to the max length of a short action and still have the bullet in the neck.
Unless you chamber a longer action for your 260. Doing that you loose the advantage of the stiffness of a short action.
In the hunting world that would be ok. The slight difference in stiffness in the long and short action isn't as apparent.
In the target world where you win or loose by hundredths of an inch any advantage you get is needed.
I picked up a Mossberg Patriot in 6.5 Creedmoor. It shoots pretty well with the factory loads. I haven't really wrung it out, so can't say much about it. It's not as slick a rifle as some of my other rifles, But for the price it's not bad.
Leo

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:

Makes a lot of sense and sounds like we are going to see many more cartridges designed like this in the future.

Yes! just what we need more cartridges???
roger

In a hunting rifle there are factors in cartridge case design which are not present in single shot target rifles. The most important one is reliability. Getting a case designed for maximum accuracy to cycle properly through a bolt action is often quite difficult, if not impossible, as I found out to my chagrin when I yielded to my gunsmith's suggestion that I chamber a rifle in 6mm International rather than 6mm-250.

My gunsmith was first and foremost a bench rest gunsmith and thought in those terms. I never could get the rifle, a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester, to cycle reliably.

While it’s true that the 6.5 Cm won’t do anything in terms of performance that other 6.5 cartridges can do, it does it at a lower price point without the need for a custom built rifle or hand loaded ammo.

It seems to be a popular sport to bash the 6.5 CM. I get reliable 1/4 MOA (or better) yperformance from my $350 Ruger American and $22 off the shelf Hornaday ammo. Perhaps performance like this at that price point is what leads to some of the bashing. I know guys who spend thousands on rifles and spend considerable time and effort at the reloading bench without seeing results this good.

I find the 6.5 Creedmoor to be a pleasant, enjoyable little cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:

I get reliable 1/4 MOA (or better) yperformance from my $350 Ruger American and $22 off the shelf Hornaday ammo.

That is right on the heels of LV Bench Rest. You would not come last in a competition with an average of .25 MOA.

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:
While it’s true that the 6.5 Cm won’t do anything in terms of performance that other 6.5 cartridges can do, it does it at a lower price point without the need for a custom built rifle or hand loaded ammo.

It seems to be a popular sport to bash the 6.5 CM. I get reliable 1/4 MOA (or better) yperformance from my $350 Ruger American and $22 off the shelf Hornaday ammo. Perhaps performance like this at that price point is what leads to some of the bashing. I know guys who spend thousands on rifles and spend considerable time and effort at the reloading bench without seeing results this good.

+1

I will eventually end up buying a left handed ruger American in 6.5 and put in a Timney trigger.

My blaser r8 barrel shoots .20-.25 moa at 130 yards with $17 federal nontypical soft point ammo.

6.5 creedmoor is Available at every academy bass pro wal mart.

6.5 recoil is soft and is a perfect round for a 5 pound k95 single ahot.

6.5 will be around for a long time.

Mike

It's very simple.

These new cartridges, are just being offered as FACTORY options vs what CUSTOM builders have been doing with standard cartridges. You can't just up and offer factory ammo and guns with the current popular loading methods of seating way out into the lands with very heavy high BC bullets, in old standard cartridges. Because some one is going to see that 110 gr 243 ammo seated at 2.95" and try to run in their old rifle and will be pissed when it won't fit in the mag, may not chamber, and will probably shoot live crap because the twist is no where near fast enough.

Solution? Look what bench, custom and wild cat shooters are doing, and make a new cartridge based of that.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
It's very simple.

These new cartridges, are just being offered as FACTORY options vs what CUSTOM builders have been doing with standard cartridges. You can't just up and offer factory ammo and guns with the current popular loading methods of seating way out into the lands with very heavy high BC bullets, in old standard cartridges. Because some one is going to see that 110 gr 243 ammo seated at 2.95" and try to run in their old rifle and will be pissed when it won't fit in the mag, may not chamber, and will probably shoot live crap because the twist is no where near fast enough.

Solution? Look what bench, custom and wild cat shooters are doing, and make a new cartridge based of that.

Very well said for anyone willing to listen.
Trouble is a lot of people don't see the need for anything "new" after their favorite cartridge was spawned !

The December 2018 and February 2018 issues of "Handleader magazine" have articles on the 6mm CM and the 6XC. Very eye opening. The 6xc rifle tested is a very hight dollar custom with a 26.5" barrel. The 6mm CM rifle tested is a Ruger American with a 22" barrel. Both rounds are very, very similar in case design, and intended to be able to shoot long High BC bullets in short actions and short action OAL detachable magazines commonly used in their respective target fields. Across the board, the handloads presented with both rifles performed about the same in terms of accuracy and velocity. The 6mm cm has a slight case capacity advantage. I don't see many more of these type of rounds being put out commercially, because the niches have already been filled, and filled very well. You never know though. Manufacturers gamble on new stuff that isn't needed all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
In a hunting rifle there are factors in cartridge case design which are not present in single shot target rifles. The most important one is reliability. Getting a case designed for maximum accuracy to cycle properly through a bolt action is often quite difficult, if not impossible, as I found out to my chagrin when I yielded to my gunsmith's suggestion that I chamber a rifle in 6mm International rather than 6mm-250.

My gunsmith was first and foremost a bench rest gunsmith and thought in those terms. I never could get the rifle, a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester, to cycle reliably.

Must say I'm amazed that my old 6.5x54 MS is so fussy in feeding. You would think the rotary magazine would handle anything but, when moving from the 156-grain RN to 140 grainers, I had to seat them right out to stop them jamming.

Part of the reason for the bashing is just the crap the scribes try to sell you. In the black Nosler load book the guy doing the write-up on the creed states that it is vastly superior to the 260 because it is so economical to load and by comparison a pussy cat to shoot because of the reduced powder...really? I have a great deal of experience loading and shooting both the 260 and creed and actually own a creed now and love it just as much as the .260. That said, you will not get one more round out of a pound of powder with the creed and with the same model gun shooting the same weight bullet you would not be able to tell which gun was which by recoil. And by the way, even with long bullets seated deep in a 260 case, velocity difference between both cases is with-in the difference in a fast and slow barrel, which is to say, there ain't no difference. The only real difference is Hornady put some thought into there release and advertising and Remington...well, Remington is Remington.
P.S. My Creed feeds wonderfully as do my 260s.