THE 338win is more or Less the same case as the7mm rm and the 308 norma,but;
* offers us bullets from the 160 barnes to 300 Woodleigh
* will take lighter game at long range just like the big 7 with 160,175,185,210gn where SD is less important
* will take the heavier stuff with the 250,275 300 grainers and there great SD (338 will usually outpenetrate the 375)
* fits in STD length action
*loaded ammo or components readily available

What is there not to like?

Recoil for one thing. If you have ever shot a 7# .338wm, it's not pretty, but I would have to agree w/ you. In a 8.5# rifle it's a great cart. for anything in NA & Africa for plainsgame.

I loved mine. Had a very light mountain rifle built in 338Wmag. With scope it was just 7.4# with a 22". Like Fredj said the recoil got my attention. I got to the point I was anticipating the recoil. Don't guess I was flinching because the groups were OK but it now sits in the safe. Replaced by my own 340 wildcat with a 24". So with a 2" longer barrel I give up 100FPS burn 10% or more less powder and love to shoot.

No doubt the 338Win Mag is an absolutely excellent cartridge. In fact, it is almost as good as a 350RemMag!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
No doubt the 338Win Mag is an absolutely excellent cartridge. In fact, it is almost as good as a 350RemMag!

Hotcore, you mis-spelled ".358 Norma Magnum" as 350RemMag!

jpb (user of the .358 Norma -- surprise!

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
THE 338win is more or Less the same case as the7mm rm and the 308 norma,but;
* offers us bullets from the 160 barnes to 300 Woodleigh
* will take lighter game at long range just like the big 7 with 160,175,185,210gn where SD is less important
* will take the heavier stuff with the 250,275 300 grainers and there great SD (338 will usually outpenetrate the 375)
* fits in STD length action
*loaded ammo or components readily available

What is there not to like?

Well, actually, if I'm going to incurr the recoil of the .375 H&H I'm going to have a .375 H&H.

What's not to like?.....It's still a .375 wannabe and .037 too small diameter.

vapodog,

Well, the real solution of course, is to own a .338 Win Mag AND a .375 H&H!!! I do. They are both very fine cartridges.

-Bob F.

In a properly stocked rifle the 338 recoils less that a 375 in a properly stocked rifle..I have both, used them both for years...I love both calibers btw..

For the North American continent, there simply is no better cartridge than the .338 Win. IMO..A 210 gr. Nosler partition at 3005 FPS is deadly on about anything but the big bears perhaps, in which case I will use a 300 gr. Woodleigh at 2400 FPS...Thats a hard combo to beat anywhere...

I have not noticed the .375 kills Buffalo or anything else a bit better than the .338 Win. but I still opt for the .375 on the giants of Africa, mostly out of respect for a wonderful old caliber.....

I will predict that the .375 in minimum legal in most of Africa, for only one reason, the .338 was not around when they made those laws...

"What is there not to like?"
Well, how about recoil? And if the rifle is heavy enough to dampen recoil it's a heavy rifle.

For deer and antelope, they've just as dead with a 270. Elk, yeah this is about where a 338 starts to look like a viable option, if you can handle the recoil and actually hit anything with it. Again, however, I've seen plenty of dead elk with 270's, 06's and 35 Whelen's, so it's not like smaller calibers bounce off or something.

Dangerous game, well bears, but I've seen black bears killed dead instantly with less. I have no experience with Alaskan brown bears so I'll leave that to those who know to comment. In Africa they seem to lean towards 375 +, but they also use 9.3x62 so I guess it's up to you, your PH and the law. The plains game I killed all dropped very quickly with a well placed 270 or 35 Whelen.

Might be the ideal "one rifle" for those so inclined. IF you are recoil tolerant and can actually shoot it accurately. I tried 338's for a couple of years in 2 different rifles of different weights but the recoil was not fun. Also,I found I was more accurate with a 270 and it did the job just as well for smaller big game animals. Ok, you can load it down, but then you've just got a 06 or Whelen anyway.

Like everything else in shooting it's "The nut behind the bolt" that makes the difference. If we just shot what was "really" needed they'd only make rifles in 22LR, 30-06 and 458 Lott, then what would we have to talk about?

I think the recoil issues that people talk about with the 338 Win Mag are over-rated.
I think the 300 Mags recoil just as much, and the 338 isn't anything like the 340 Weatherby. To me, the 340 is where recoil becomes something to consider

I have 2, and use them for just about everything. Bang,flop. I like that, and the 338 destroys less meat than high velocity cartrides, though that's not a major concern for me.

I'm a hunter, and the 338 is a hunters cartridge, and it kills the animals I shoot at real dead. I like that

I can't disagree with HunterMontana about recoil.

I have a .358 Norma Magnum and a .375 Ouch & Ouch Magnum, and the .358 is rather unpleasant to shoot with full loads (bad factory stock, soon to be replaced).

I will mention that a .35 cal rifle can provide a lot of cheap shooting practice if you are reloader. Use any .38 cal pistol bullet and you are good to go -- an option not available to .338 or .375 calibres and a big reason for me to have a .358 Norma.

No, I can't explain why I also have a .375 H&H!

jpb

quote:

I think the recoil issues that people talk about with the 338 Win Mag are over-rated.

For you maybe. The truth is, that there are people who either just don't like recoil or are intolerant of it. Now most folks can overcome this by more practice. But, there are people that simply don't have the time or won't make the time to learn to deal with the recoil. Then, there is a samll group that could practice forever and would still not tolerate the additional recoil. For these folks, a smaller cartridge makes sense.

Also, from a practical sense, the .338-06 is much easier to convert an existing rifle to than the .338 Win mag. For those well equipped folks or well off folks, this may not be an issue. But, for the guy determined, for whatever reason, to convert his .30-06 into a .338 the win mag requires more effort & money to convert than the .338-06 does.


There is no arguing that the .338 Win Mag beats the .338-06. But, only a small percentage of shooters will ever really need that small margin of incremental power the Magnum affords over the .338-06.

Sorta like a sports car vs race car. Both will get you to work everyday, but in most instances the race car is simply not needed.

If it's .338 caliber, it's gotta be good. Never met one I didn't like yet.

I like my 338RUM because I can shoot the 250 at 3000fps or I can down load it to shoot at 2700 fps. Will use it in AUG for Black Bear at 2730 fps.

AMEN! It's real critter thumping tool!
I've never had mine fail me on any animal whether broadside, quartering or frontal.
It just flat hammers game.
With the right bullets of coarse! The 225 grain barnes X have done extremely well as have 225 grain partitions.

Discounting recoil is what I term "experts prejudice".

I suspect that most of the folks that stop here and chat are serious shooters. I've seen serious shooters that could shoot a 375 or even a 458 prone and get a good group for at least 3 shots at 100 yards. I can shoot a 338 Win prone with excellent accuracy, but I don't ENJOY it. Since many of the shots I take at deer and antelope are from prone or low rests this is a position I need to practice from. Since my 270 is a kitten this practice is fun. I shoot a 35 Whelen for elk, most of the shots are off-hand, in heavy timber at ranges under 100 yards. The additionaly recoil is not a factor off-hand or even seated, it's just not as fun as the 270 prone though.

My point here relates to my guiding experience. I got to see quite a few "not as serious" shooters over the years. Some of them could handle a 338 or 300 Win with ease, unfortunately, a lot of them were scared shitless. Even so, some still did OK, a few though couldn't hold a 6 or even 12 inch group consistantly from a bench rest at 100 yards.

IF you can handle 338 recoil under any field conditions you might experience, then by all means go for it. It is certainly extremely effective, especially at less than ideal shot angles, probably better than any 06 case caliber. But be realistic with yourself or when you offer advice to beginners. Not everyone really wants to climb the learning curve of heavy recoil.

Got my first 338 win mag when I was 15. So did my best friend same time also 15.

Heck everyone has a 338 up here. It is a good caliber.

One of my buddies who used a 30-06 for along time now has a 338. I asked him if he still uses his 30-06. He said why would I use an /06 now that I have a 338.

Hunter MT, I agree 100% w/ your post...

Half the recoil of a rifle is in a persons mind.
I used my 338 to take hog at over 300yds with the factory failsafe in an m70 laying on the ground. the next shot was another hog running away but I was standing. Recoil was there but it was not what I was thinking about when I pulled the trigger.Both pigs dropped like being hit by a bolt of lightning. I remember the momemts more than the recoil.

Its abit like saying I do at the altar,doesnt seem so difficult once youve said it.

quote:

Hotcore, you mis-spelled ".358 Norma Magnum" as 350RemMag!

quote:

I think the 300 Mags recoil just as much, and the 338 isn't anything like the 340 Weatherby. To me, the 340 is where recoil becomes something to consider

You are right on that one, from the bench
for accuracy there is more noticable recoil
using hot loads of course.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:

quote:

I think the 300 Mags recoil just as much, and the 338 isn't anything like the 340 Weatherby. To me, the 340 is where recoil becomes something to consider

You are right on that one, from the bench
for accuracy there is more noticable recoil
using hot loads of course.

Absolutely true!! I had the exact same rifle(Browning A-Bolt Composite Stalker) in .300 Mag and .338 Mag. The .300 using a 180 grain bullet at 3050 fps recoiled much harder than the .338 with a 210 grain bullet at 3050 fps. Both loads used the same powder, IMR 4350. The recoil from the .300 was very sharp, where the .338 gives more of a shove. In a past post, ASS CLOWN did some math to prove that I was correct in this observation. I thing .338 recoil has become an urban myth in most peoples minds, even if a .300 Mag recoils harder!! By the way, I still have the .338 but the .300 Mag is long gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Half the recoil of a rifle is in a persons mind.

I agree... and the other half is in the shoulder!

I've had six 338's... I love the round and shoot it well. However, as I've gotten older I just don't enjoy recoil all that much... at least in a rifle I'd want to carry. A nine pound 338 is NOT the same as an eight pound 338, and I will not carry a nine pound rifle. Those that dote on rounds like the 338 often shoot rifles in the nine pound category... that much weight really mitigates recoil and makes a big difference. IMO, "real" hunting rifles don't weigh much over 8lbs "all up."

My Model 70's 338's are wood and synthetic. The wood stocked rifle is definitely heavier. I carry the stainless rifle most of the time. It isn't pretty, but is very functional. I'm not sure what it weighs, but it carries just fine. I've had light rifles, and while they were nice to carry, they were very hard to shoot. It seems to me that a rifle that weighs 8.5 to 8.75lbs seems to work well in the field for me.

Regardless, the 338's that I own both recoil less than the 300 Weatherby's I've owned.

I'm surprised at how often the recoil issue comes up, without the matter of stock fit being mentioned. I'm completely convinced that fit is everything.

I have a 'much lightened' (about 7 pounds) L61R Sako in .338 that I can shoot all day, off the bench or otherwise. I've also had a Tikka M65 in .338 that recoiled do hard that my face would go numb and my vision would go fuzzy every time I touched it off. The Sako fits; the Tikka didn't. I also have an early Browning Safari in .338; it has considerably more felt recoil than the Sako, while weighing at least a pound more.

I have an ancient Parker Hale 1100 African in .458 that feels like an auto-loading 12 gauge; I used to have a similar Brno 602 that just plain hurt.

I firmly believe that if it fits, it won't hurt you.

I have a 5 3/4 pound .338 being built by Match Grade Arms. Scoped it will weigh close to 7, and I will probably add a set of express sights before it is delivered. 10 twist barrel to handle the heavy bullets. It will have a brake. (save the comments, I have used brakes for years because they work) I am sure it will recoil heavily, but I want a powerful rifle for a planned move to Alaska, and I want to be able to carry it in hand for days and miles without feeling like my arms are going to fall off. Like tumbleweed, my experience has also shown that stock design and proper fit make a big difference in felt recoil.

Stock fit is important but it ain't everything. There is a certain point even with the best fitting stock that some people simply cannot tolerate recoil after.

For some people that point is the .460 Weatherby for others the .308 Win. I for one like to see people shooting a cartridge that they can shoot well instead of something they have been lead to believe they need.

z1r I agree with all your points. Stock fit only goes so far. I just don't see any need for a 338 for anything in the U.S. short of grizzly bears. This thread does seem to be wandering though. Didn't it start out to sing the praises of "the mighty 338"?

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
THE 338win is more or Less the same case as the7mm rm and the 308 norma,but;
* offers us bullets from the 160 barnes to 300 Woodleigh
* will take lighter game at long range just like the big 7 with 160,175,185,210gn where SD is less important
* will take the heavier stuff with the 250,275 300 grainers and there great SD (338 will usually outpenetrate the 375)
* fits in STD length action
*loaded ammo or components readily available

What is there not to like?

The 250grain 338 Win mag has the trajectory of a 30-06 and the power of a speeding locomotive. Who can't appreciate that? I like the calibre so much that my next one will be a .338UM!
Some argue recoil, but hey there is a price to be paid for everything, and to that lot I say "TINSTAAFL".(there is no such thing as a free lunch)

Yes I did kick it off on that note,and here is more. Hunting situations dont always offer ideal shots,but there are ideal cartridges that compensate for that.The 338win I believe is one of them.
If you had a horse that ate more oats than the others and annoyingly bit you when you saddled it up,but each time you put him on the track he performed admirably regardless of most conditions,you would soon overlook those small issues in light of the big picture. Consider the .338win that horse.

Glass eyes look good and make people fell comfortable,but the truth is you cannot see out of it.

I have only owned one .338 win mag and it's an M77 Ruger. I absolutely love this rifle. It comfortable to shoot, it's a tack driver, and it kills really well. Indeed, what is there not to like. Recoil comes down to the individual. Freaks like me and some of the other recoil junkies of the big bore forum don't find it objectionable. You should try my .458 Lott on the bench -- that hurts a bit!

Woodjack, that's one of the best common-sense analogies I've ever read, and it certainly does apply to the .338 Win.

Really, the .338 Win. Mag. is one of the best possible "all-around" cartridges you can select. I always compare it to the .30-06, because the .338 Win. is pretty much a scaled up '06. The .30-06 pushes 180 gr. bullets out at about 2700 fps. or better, and so does the .338 with 250s. The .30-06 produces about 2800 fps. with 165 gr. bullets, as does the .338 with 225s, and what the '06 produces with 150s, the .338 Win. Mag. will produce with 200-210 gr. bullets.

So getting down to the real truth, the .338 Win. Mag. is even more versatile than the iconic .30-06 is, especially if you're going to concentrate on game that's bigger than deer, and the .338 Win. Mag. is by no means too big for deer. Yes, there are more .308 bullets available than .338 bullets, but that is a numerical/statistical advantage only. If you can't get any hunting job in the world done (98% of them, anyway!) with 210, 225, and 250 gr. bullets out of a .338 Win. Mag. case -- and more effectively and convincingly than with the '06 -- it's time to take up needlepoint.........

AD

I recently purchased a Model 70 Super Grade in .338. I picked it up to compliment my Mauser 7x57 for a good two gun NA battery as my 14 year old has laid claim to my trusty old 30-06. I love the .338 so far but I would agree that it is not a beginners caliber. I find the recoil manageable but I'd be lying if I said it didn't kick. I have a .375 as well and the .338 kicks a bit less and the recoil seems a bit more than the .300's I've shot. It is definately easier to shoot than a 12 ga. loaded with slugs which we are limited to using in the southern part of Michigan. In all sports there are levels of equipment performance that require an increased level of skill to take advantage of them. that is true of tennis rackets, skis, golf clubs, motorcycles, you name it. In any of those pursuits a person is better off matching their gear to their skill level. The whole point is still to put a bullet where you aim.

Jeff

I WANT A .338! This thing can't kick harder than
my 10 ga. shooting 2 oz. of HeviShot, at ol'Tom.
Now that hurts! We have to shoot shotgun
slugs, at whitetails, in some of the areas, I hunt,
in Wisconsin, and a Remington 11-87 SP, with
a fully rifled barrel launching .50 cal Copper
Solid Sabots, is baby food. So if the consensus
is the .338 WM, has less recoil, than the 12 ga.
launching slugs, I will loose my concern about
this being a heavy recoiling rifle.

I am currently lusting after a .338 RUM, but given
I am not fond of today's Remington rifles, it may
end up being a .338 Win Mag. I have got to get
a .338! Grunt Grunt ...Mo Thump!

Squeeze

If you can sight in a 12 Ga (or 10 Ga) with turkey loads or slugs off the bench, you will have no trouble with a 338 Win. Even standing up, heavy 12 Ga loads hurt. Try shooting trap with 3.5" 2 oz loads some time... Much worse than the 338s I have shot.

I am fond of classic cartridges,7x57,06,300h&h,375h&h, but they do not offer the versatility of the modern classic 338win. In all reality the 338 is just as efficient as the 7mauser,06, because powder charge/bullet weight,energies,rise proportionaly.
Lets face it,I am sure there are guys out there touting the 30/06,35 Whelen as being all that is required,yet at the same time spend an extra $20,000 to drive 3.5ton 12mpg bigblock V8 pickups to do the groceries.Then to save 10 cents per round,they avoid the .338win.

Allen (and anybody else who wants to chime in)-

I rarely contribute to AR, but read it religously. Please don't take this question as a confrontation-I enjoy your opinions and simply want to pick your mind. I know you are a big fan of the 300 Win Mag. What role does the 338 fill when you already have a 300 and a 375? John Barness, Layne Simpson, and a few others feel that the 338 is a tweener-for most applications (eg elk, interior grizzly, moose) the 300 is just as good as a 338, and in instances where the 338 is better suited than the 300, a 375 is even better (eg brown bear). I have a sense that you share that opinion. Now that you have some experience with the 338, is there a noticable difference? Saying you went with a 338 "just because" is a perfectly reasonable response!

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:
I have a 5 3/4 pound .338 being built by Match Grade Arms. Scoped it will weigh close to 7, and I will probably add a set of express sights before it is delivered. 10 twist barrel to handle the heavy bullets. It will have a brake. (save the comments, I have used brakes for years because they work) I am sure it will recoil heavily, but I want a powerful rifle for a planned move to Alaska, and I want to be able to carry it in hand for days and miles without feeling like my arms are going to fall off. Like tumbleweed, my experience has also shown that stock design and proper fit make a big difference in felt recoil.

The .338WM is perhaps the most popular cartridge in Alaska, right up there with the .30-06 and the .300WM.

Buy a good set of electronic ear muffs, and you will be fine. I use a Peltor Tactical 6S, which I use at the range and just before I pull the trigger while hunting. You won't know how well the .338WMN works until you drop a moose or two. Shot placement is most important, of course, but hit a moose or a bear on the right spot with a heavy .338-caliber bullet, an I swear that you will be impressed.

For the past few years, every moose I have killed have dropped to one shot from my .338WM. I have shot moose with 230-grain FS bullets, 250-grain A-Frame, and with 250-grain Nosler, and could not tell the difference in "bang, flop" speed. All dropped pretty fast, including last year's. This one was shot through the chest/lungs from 325 yards away. This has be the farthest shot so far, and the closest has been 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by rdelius:
Allen (and anybody else who wants to chime in)-

I rarely contribute to AR, but read it religously. Please don't take this question as a confrontation-I enjoy your opinions and simply want to pick your mind. I know you are a big fan of the 300 Win Mag. What role does the 338 fill when you already have a 300 and a 375? John Barness, Layne Simpson, and a few others feel that the 338 is a tweener-for most applications (eg elk, interior grizzly, moose) the 300 is just as good as a 338, and in instances where the 338 is better suited than the 300, a 375 is even better (eg brown bear). I have a sense that you share that opinion. Now that you have some experience with the 338, is there a noticable difference? Saying you went with a 338 "just because" is a perfectly reasonable response!

In my opinion, the .300WM is an outstanding cartridge, and very popular in Alaska. The main advantage of the .338WM over several cartridges, including the .300WM, is that the .338-caliber bullets offer much more SD. While the .300's stop at 220-grain bullets, that's where the .338WM begins to excel. Those heavy .33 bullets, from 240 to 300 grains is where the .338 does its best.

The .375 H&H is another wonderful cartridge, and it does its best in regards to penetration and "thump" on game with 300-grain bullets.

Now, the real "thumpers" start with the .416, and that's why so many people talk about this rifle battery:

.22LR
.270
.338WM
.416

To enjoy the 338 Mag, get one that you can put a Hogue Over Molded Stock on. Nice thick recoil pad and non-slip finsh. Makes mine a pleasure.