Has chrony'd factory ammo matched or come close to their advertised velocities?

Just wondering as I have a lot of success in my rifles with WW Power-Points factory ammo; But now I want to reload for my 270W and 7RM...I would like to TRY first by using the factory ammo's COAL with my reloads as it looks like the sweet spot...hehehe..."actually" using my bullet comparator to OGIVE and work my powder choice in/near that MV range as stated in my manuals as a goal and see what I get...I just believe in the R&D of Winchester as I don't want to run them waaay faster or slower but in the general vicinity and just trying to get some of the same accuracy as possible even though might not be spot-on...

Has chrony'd factory ammo matched or come close to their advertised velocities?

Just looking at being in the ball-park is good enough and desiring to get the same terminal performance out of this proven cup and core bullet at close and far ranges!

I have same WW Power-Points and same brass and same WLR primers...

Just looking to see if I can get the MV with different powders and see what happens...

They both shoot clover-leafs with this factory ammo...

I realize there are other factors here in the equation in relationship to trying to reproduce the accuracy of the factory ammo, but I think its a good thing to try for starters!

However, I like the terminal performance of Winchester Factory Ammo in my 30-06 as its proven itself time and again; Just would like to try it in the 270W and 7RM now...I don't plan to chrony my loads but just as a reference to use from manuals in regards to MV...And a 100 yd MOA is actually all I need from my hunting rifles, but just wanted to use this reasonong as a goal first...and see where it takes me...

What's the understanding of advertised MV of factory ammo?

Thanks for your opinions!

Roland

Earlier this year, I used some Remington factory 180gr Core-lokts to 'dirty' the barrel before shooting my handloads, in 30-06. The Remmy box was marked '2700fps'. These loads shot at 2550fps! Thinking something might be wrong with my Chrony, I shot my handloads and they were fine. Back to the factory Core-lokts and they shot at 2550fps. Wow, less than 308win performance from a 30-06.

I'll be curious if others have had this happen.

I'll be curious if others have had this happen.



Yep, me too!

As I heard by some that they found that they were under by quite a bit, but I'm here to find a GENERAL consensus...

Up til now I've been only merely speculating...

But now we'll see what the people say...

Aloha!

Roland

I have seen factory ammo in some rifles indeed chrono as faster and or faster than advertised and in some rifles and some times be a couple hundred FPS slower than advertised. There is no hard and fast rule in my experience.

LB; this is what I can give you, every so often I buy a box of factory ammo for testing-
WINCHESTER SUPER X #x7mmR2
175 gr WinPP
2761 fps(2860 advertised) Ex Spread 47fps
they are loaded with 66.0 grs of an unknown(to me) OEM ball powder

the velocity is instrumental-15 ft- 5 shots from a 24 " barrel(new/replaced)-temp 79F

I have no data for factory 270 ammo, I load 150 Speer hot cores at 2900 fps with H4831, accurate and kills everything it's pointed at

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
I have seen factory ammo in some rifles indeed chrono as faster and or faster than advertised and in some rifles and some times be a couple hundred FPS slower than advertised.

There is no hard and fast rule in my experience.

Okay this is the answer I was hoping to receive...Guys at the range upon looking at my spent brass tell me it looks like WW factory ammo runs them a bit on the HOT side...

Thanks for sharing...

Sorry, I thought you were looking for ACTUAL chronographed data. As far as hot??, I'm sure their ammo is loaded within SAAMI spec.

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:
LB; this is what I can give you, every so often I buy a box of factory ammo for testing-
WINCHESTER SUPER X #x7mmR2
175 gr WinPP
2761 fps(2860 advertised) Ex Spread 47fps
they are loaded with 66.0 grs of an unknown(to me) OEM ball powder

the velocity is instrumental-15 ft- 5 shots from a 24 " barrel(new/replaced)-temp 79F

I have no data for factory 270 ammo, I load 150 Speer hot cores at 2900 fps with H4831, accurate and kills everything it's pointed at

Hey buddy that's super and I appreciate you taking the time to get all that info to me...IMO they are very close to what they state for my purposes anyway!

I'll be shooting WW 150gr Power-Points in my 7RM have you ever sampled these my friend by any chance???

Aloha!

Roland

No factory 150's. Do you know anyone with a chrony?

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:
No factory 150's. Do you know anyone with a chrony?

Not at the moment...but I'll try to find one...hehehe

I don't shoot much factory rifle ammo, but what I have, has rarely come within 100fps of advertized vel. The one exception was Speer Nitrex ammo in 280. It hit the adv. vel. mark+.

a few more factory loads

264 Win Mag-24"
REM EXPRESS 140 CL-3018-36ES
WIN SUPERX-140PP-3014-32ES

308 win-24"
WIN SUPERX-150PP-2899=ES34 (surprised)

300RUM-26"
Rem 180-3213

300Wthby-180-26"
Wthby 180-3082

300 Win-24"
Win supremeBT 180-3012
SuperX180-2941

Of the very few factory loads I've tested, only the Hornady loads have met or exceeded advertised velocity. Others have fallen short, but this is a very limited sampling.

Chronies aren't real expensive. They can tell you a lot about your loads behavior. Also can be a safety tool to some extent. Say if a load is giving off the chart velocity, you might want to double check the case for pressure signs, etc... I highly recommend the $100 or so investment. I won't be without one from hence forth.

David

I would hazard a guess that the factory specs are derived from a 24 or 26" barrel.If you are shooting a shorter barrel or at different temperatures, your results may vary

Your results with factory ammo will vary from published spec's no matter how long your barrel is. I have a rifle with a 29" barrel that chrono'ed over 150 FPS slower than adverised. More to it than just barrel lenght. I have seen the shorter barreled gun with some loads actually chrono faster than a longer barreled one. The more one uses a chrono the more you find that you didn't know

Temp, humidity, elevation all play a part in the bullets velocity, in addition to barrel length, chamber throat OAL etc.

I bought 2 boxes of Winchester Supreme 130g for my 270 WSM. They usually chrony right on the number (3270 fps) I use one or two of them to check my Chrony and foul the barrel every trip to the range.. If the factory loads don't read close to what I've come to expect from them, I know my reloads won't chrony correctly that day.

Thanks guys!

As I mentioned I do realize that there are other factors involved with the equation...

However, I've learned a lot from what you all have added to this post!

Again, thanks to all...

I was working on some loads for my 7mm STW and was getting around 3250-3300fps with a 150gr. bullet.Just for thrills,I ran a chrony test on a Winchester factory load.It clocked out at 3450fps. with a 150gr bullet.After I got home,I pulled the bullet,weighed the powder and after a little research,I was able to duplicate that factory load.

RBCD usually shoots 50 fps faster than advertised. I like 3400 out of a 20 inch tube .308

I've found that factory published vel. are higher than most most real life chronied vel. due to the factories testing equipment. Hey drew i see you're from Corpus Christ, me too.

I'm not a big collector so I only have three rifles for comparison purposes.

In my 257 Wby, 24 inch barrel, factory velocities through my chrono were 3555 to 3610for the 100 grain TSX which is right at where the factory says they should be.

In my 30-06 in a 22 inch barrel, the Federal premium 180 grain TSX shot at 2720 through my chrono, again right at where it should be according to the factory.

My 338-378 Wby, 26 inch barrel, shoots the factory 225 grain Barnes bullets at a measured 3170 which is also right where the factory says they should be.

In reloading for all three I can reach or exceed factory velocities with no pressure signs in the Weatherby rifles but not my '06. I get to within about 75 fps from the '06 so I'm not complaining.

Ken....

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by swheeler:
No factory 150's. Do you know anyone with a chrony?

Not at the moment...but I'll try to find one...hehehe

Why don't you just BUY one? They're not that expensive these days.......

quote:

Originally posted by Heat:
I'm not a big collector so I only have three rifles for comparison purposes.

In my 257 Wby, 24 inch barrel, factory velocities through my chrono were 3555 to 3610for the 100 grain TSX which is right at where the factory says they should be.

In my 30-06 in a 22 inch barrel, the Federal premium 180 grain TSX shot at 2720 through my chrono, again right at where it should be according to the factory.

My 338-378 Wby, 26 inch barrel, shoots the factory 225 grain Barnes bullets at a measured 3170 which is also right where the factory says they should be.

In reloading for all three I can reach or exceed factory velocities with no pressure signs in the Weatherby rifles but not my '06. I get to within about 75 fps from the '06 so I'm not complaining.

Ken....

Ken

I appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences!!!....

And everyone else too! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!

I once chronied a box of remington 170grn 30-30 that didn't bust 1900fps in a 20" savage 340

A couple years later I chronied a different box of the same ammo from a 20" winchester and a 10" revolver and got an average 2175 and 1820 fps.

Oddly enough from that same revolver 150grn RP 30-30 only went 1880fps

About the only ammo I've chronographed that was faster than spec was Barnual 7.62x39mm, this stuff runs right at 2500fps

Please remember a Factory load will or should not ever be as fast as a Hand load .

Think for a moment WHY .


Buzz !! Times up ; Factory loads must function in all said guns of that caliber .

So an average FPS is advertised from a Test Barrel under near perfect conditions .

Factory isn't in the business of risky business . it's in the Money business .

Blown chambers bring Law Suits which tend to cut profits greatly , not to mention negative

unwanted attention !.

Yep, I hear you!

And its precisely why I chose to post this question!

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
Please remember a Factory load will or should not ever be as fast as a Hand load .

Think for a moment WHY .


Buzz !! Times up ; Factory loads must function in all said guns of that caliber .

So an average FPS is advertised from a Test Barrel under near perfect conditions .

Factory isn't in the business of risky business . it's in the Money business .

Blown chambers bring Law Suits which tend to cut profits greatly , not to mention negative

unwanted attention !.

I'm not buying, factory loads are loaded to the SAAMI max average pressure as tested in the lab. Buffalo Bore handgun ammo has loads that I can not reach the velocity that they are loaded to, with handloads

quote:

Please remember a Factory load will or should not ever be as fast as a Hand load .

I disagree wholeheartedly.

When shooting century old cartridges there's usually some improvement to be had handloading. But these new super high pressure rounds come from the factory loaded right up to the ragged edge. The handloader is going to be VERY hard pressed to beat factory figures for cartridges such as wsm, wssm, 338fed or any of the new huge handgun rounds.

plain and simple if you beat factory ammo's velocities for these rounds you're overpressure PERIOD

Measuring factory loads RWS in 7x57 173 grs H-Mantle and .375 H&H 300 grs. TUG, both are right on the published figures:
7x57 = 2550 fps average
.375 = 2550 fps average
Also the NORMA 7x57 150 grs SP= 2750 fps avg.
And all of them are loaded at máximum (I presume safe...) pressures !
PH

The only factory ammo that met the "box" was RWS ammo (H-mantel, 187gr) in 8x68. The box promises 970m/s, I got 976.

Not much to improve on there...

I fail to understand what some of you mean by over pressured ?.SAAMI sets Safe pressure standards .

Factory loads must MUST conform too SAAMI standards . NO EXCEPTIONS TOO THIS RULE !.

interchangeability, reliability and quality SAFELY !!.

Are all .308 chambers throats barrel lengths the same or any other caliber . NO !.

Factory Ammo is shot in a test barrel under the strictest of conditions that barrel may be 26 inches

or 30 inches . Factory doesn't publish that info on the box do they !. Say a person has a 30/06 vintage 03

another has a brand new pick a brand . Shoot the exact box of ammo in both chrony the load , different ?? Why ??.

Both are 06's built too a specification . So many variables isn't worth mentioning .Bet money neither meet advertised box velocity !.

Ammo manufactures may ask for a specific cut burn rate of powder may even be using a newly developed powder

yet unavailable too the reloading market ; YET . It will be soon . Powder manufactures are in the selling powder business .

In over 40 years of reloading I doubt there are more than 10% of " Factory loads " of which I can't achieve

a FPS advantage on . By working up slowly noting pressure signs or changing projectiles , powders and primers .

Why is the question ?.There are two notable factors in which no one seems to remember when attempting to duplicate a " Factory Cartridge ".


Your primers are Different than theirs , as is your powders " EVEN " if it's the same

powder it's NOT !. Because of cut or shape and traceable's . Every powder manufactured world over has a signature

tracer in it .

FYI ; I've yet to find ANY FACTORY AMMO which is more accurate than a finely tuned hand load in a particular

gun . Regardless of FPS advertisement Box color or projectile setting in it .

95% of the time accuracy comes well short of maximum velocity . A great deal of accuracy has to do with

harmonics and rattling a projectile faster isn't necessarily conducive to that purpose .

Besides all that seems foolish to me why one concerns themselves with Factory FPS nonsense any way .

Especially if your barrel isn't a test barrel of appropriate length with a pressure transducer inside a windless tube at 77 degrees F relative humidity 32% at 11K Ft. elevation . I think you get the picture now .

It is almost always a matter of the surfacequality of the rifeling, and the mesurements of the rifeling, that is the most important factor in creating velocity.
A barrel with the correct minimum mesurements, and a propper surface, will deliver the velicity, that the factory promisses, at least if your barrel has the same length as the testbarrels used in the factory.
You might even get more than 100fps extra if you have an barrel with min mesurements, and a lo friction surface, all without high presure.

So if you get to low velocity, there generaly are 1 or more of the following reasons.
1: short barrels
2: sloppy mesurements
3: poor surfacequality in the barrel

Most test barrels used for manufacturing of hunting ammo, is 24" for std calibers, and 26 for overbore magnums

Here a a couple chrony results I recorded in the past year.

.270 W - Federal Premium 150 gr. Partitions
Avg. Velocity - 2862 fps in 22" barrel

.30-06 - Winchester Supreme 180 gr. Accubond
Avg. Velocity - 2802 fps in 22" barrel

Pretty much as advertised or better.

Most advertised ballistic data from standard cartridges, are shot from a 24" barrel, not 22" as most standard 30-06 are barreled. But 200fps seems to be a lot of difference. I imagine quality standards with some of these ammo firms are severely lacking. Hornady has some of the highest standards in consistency. Black Hills Gold is also.

I have chrony'd Remington Express ammo and Winchester SuperX/Supreme and Hornady. Remington tends to be the biggest liars on the block by far. Have not checked their higher end stuff. Winchester is usually somewhere in the ball park or just barely under their ads by 50-75 fps. Hornady Light Magnum is at or above their advertised velocities!

quote:

Temp, humidity, elevation all play a part in the bullets velocity, in addition to barrel length, chamber throat OAL etc.

Elevation (altitude; barometric pressure) and humidity have no appreciable effect on muzzle velocity. The other factors listed can.

Factory loaded ammunition (perish the thought!) velocities typically run a little lower than published velocities since they are formulated for "standardized" guns and most rifles in the field have looser chambers and bores. In a few instances, as have been cited, factory velocities will run a bit higher than published.

I've found that there are certain cartridges which tend to be factory loaded to lower velocities than published, and others that tend to be closer to published velocities. Examples of "slow" cartridges (at least in comparison to claimed velocities) are 7mm Rem Magnum, .243 Win, .264 Win Mag, and some loads in .30-06. Cartridges that tend to run pretty close are .270 Win, 6mm Rem, and a few others. The lowly, underloaded .257 Roberts factory ammo always outpaced its (conservative) published velocities in a rifle I used to own, and this was pryor to +P ammunition for that caliber.

The WSM cartridges are an entirely different story. While they do tend to run pretty close to advertised velocities, they do so at the expense of very high pressures in order to reach those velocities (and thus futher the myths surrounding the genre). Many shooters have complained of cratered primers and sticky bolt lift with factory WSM cartridges.

quote:

Chrony'd factory ammo?

I rarely buy factory ammo as I learned years ago that I can almost always make something better, faster, and for less....but not always...

To find factory ammo 150 FPS under stated velocity isn't at all surprising.

If you're a hunter that wants the best for his hunts you need to reload and use a chronograph....they aren't expensive and it's the only way you know what you're doing.

I've got a .308 Win 20" Rem 700 that shoots 180 grain accubonds at 2740 FPS....only because I reload and test my loads.....most factory loaded .30-06s won't do that from a 26" barrel!

A very good read Your Chronograph Can Tell You More