Thanks John G. your right.

Oh no I misspelled "coming" guess thats kinda thing never happens. Mental note... anyone who misspells a two syllable word is "dumb". Members of AR might want to go through all old posts to make sure all spelling is correct so as recoiljunky doesnt think they are dumb. Very important.

Improved accuracy through headspacing off the shoulder is not an over-generalization, it's a fact of cartridge design. I did not *know* that. There are several problems with this statement. First... let me say that if you are a reloader you NEVER have to headspace off the belt, unless you do not have enough shoulder/no shoulder. Secondly if you make such a statement that Improved accuracy through headspacing off the shoulder is not an over-generalization, it's a fact of cartridge design. you are assuming that tolerance and alignment are at a ideal condition, something that can be *created* just as equally in ANY other cartrige "design". There are ideal conditions and there are "designs" but the two are not the same thing my friend.
The RUMs will probably kill about the same as any other of their magnum counterparts.

I notice by the last line of your last post that you left the 270 out.What happend?You finally read the column for down range energy and noted the diffrence between the two?Thats great,your learning.Oh Im sorry,you already knew that[since you have so many posts and that is what matters in the realm of knowledge]And by the way,that statement about a reloader NEVER having to headspace off the belt.Im sure [since you have so many posts]you realize you must neck size and fire a few rounds before you get the shoulder to reach the chambers shoulder to headspace off of instead of the belt.So please go back and at least take off the cap locks on never.Maybe then it wont be so obvious.Oh yea,I knew about the Weatherby mags out a long time ago.Im sure you knew that they were throated so long that the accuracy was craplike[Is that a word? recoiljunky please inform me of any grammar mistakes that I have made.I unlike other people like to be imformed when I make a mistake]Did you ever think that maybe Mrbig is hunting clearcut powerlines that serve as a path between bedding areas and feeding areas and longrange cartridges are needed?And can you believe Don[a fellow retard with only 6 posts]weighed in on this.What was he thinking? I realize new retards like us are a burden to people like you with great knowledge[just look at the amount of posts] but please bare with us.And before anyone asks,NO I dont usually sit here long enough to respond to any crap like this.The wind is blowing 50mph and the prariedogs have the day off.Good riddence to all,even you smallfry.Let me rephrase that,espically you smallfry.You missed the whole point of my first post on this subject.

when the range gets long and the wind gets up its a whole lot easier to hit your tatget with a bullet with .508 BC at 3400 fps than a .395 BC at 3050 fps.

Ok, I gotta jump in on this one, can't help it.
Let's see: .338 Win Mag,
225 gr. Nosler bullet
velocity at 2882 fps
71.5 grs. of powder

.338 RUM
225 gr. Nosler bullet
velocity at 3227 fps
98 grs. of powder
All of this out of the Nosler # 5 manual.
The RUM gets 345 fps more than the Win. that's 37% more powder to get about 12% more velocity. The RUM gets 33 fps per grain of powder, the Win. gets about 40 fps per grain of powder.

HMMM!! Looks like overbore to me. Oh well, the RUM will kill an elk, moose, grizzly or Brown Bear even deader than dead. By the way, I'd like to know how an animal can be deader than dead. But what do I know? Ok, now you Eargensplittenloudenboomer guys can jump my case.
Bear in Fairbanks

Bear in Fairbanks, The .338 RUM is by no means an overbore cartridge. The fact that it get less velocity per grain doesn't automatically classify it as "overbore." just the laws of diminishing returns.

by your definition most cartidges would fit in that category.

It's a little more rifle than I need, but it's not overbore.

[ 05-06-2003, 02:00: Message edited by: TC1 ]

Bear in fairbanks.
Lets see.
.338-06
50.5 grains of powder.
2570 feet per second with a 225 Nosler.

.338 win. 225 nosler at 2882fps. driven by 71.5 grains of powder.

The winchester gets 132 feet per second faster for 40% more powder.

Does this mean that the .338 Win. is an over bore cartrige?
Not!!!

The Ultra mag doesn't look so bad using your numbers , does it??


Jamie

Bear in Fairbanks,

If you're trying to make claims about efficiency, you need to re-do your numbers in terms of ft-lbs of muzzle energy per grain of powder (which contains chemical potential energy--not velocity). I think you'll find the RUM does quite well.

Now, tell me the wind drift of the two loads in a 5 MPH crosswind at 400 yards. You may just find the "Eargensplittenloudenboomer guys" will be able to more accurately place their shots under variable light wind conditions.

Bear.
I pulled the load data from Noslers Book.
Nosler says 50.5 grains of RL-15 gave them 2570 fps. I added 40% to 50.5 number to come up with 70.7 (close enough).
Is my math correct?
I obviously chose this load to make the point that cartridge efficiency is of minor consequence in the real world. Almost 400 feet per second can make a significant difference (in my opinion). Let me explain before you bring a flaming retort
101grains of Retumbo gives me 3220fps with 225 Barnes X (not messy on small game). With a 300 yard zero the bullet is 3 inches high at 200 and 7 inches down at 400. Retained velocity at 400 is 2450fps or about the same as the .338 Win at 200.
The .338 Win. can be zero'd at 300 as well but will be over 5 inches high at 200.
Don't get me wrong I like the .338, its just not in the same class for long range work.
For shorter (normal) shooting I prefer the .375 Ultra, but, we have game a lot bigger than deer up here.

Flame away!
Jamie

Brad, you are correct in saying that"[e]very cartridge is a compromise weighted in one direction or another."
One thing no one has mentioned yet is chamber pressures.
A big case can generally generate the same muzzle speed in a given bullet weight with less peak pressure. Since it's pressure and the heat it creates (rather than speed, per se) that erodes throats and diminishes barrel life, a really nice benefit of these monster 'cats is having high (not highest, necessarily) muzzle speeds with little barrel wear.
Look at the 416 Rigby. Folks are loading that thing up to 2600 fps per 400gr bullet and more.
The original load was, what?, 2380 or so? Not because Rigby, et al., didn't know how to push it; they were more interested in keeping pressures low for easy extraction in tense moments. Otherwise they could've saved themselves alot of trouble and sold alot more cartridges by making the COL 3.6" instead of whatever it is - 3.75"?
Find the hottest load in a WinMag and duplicate it in your RUM. Then so it 4000 times, and enjoy.

This all completely regardless of the fact that a 30-30 kills deer very, very dead.

I don't care for the rebated rim, and I wish they hadn't gone that extra .002" on the case from the orignal Jeffery cases. But a simalar round, the 360 Imperial Magnum, has always intrigued me as a way to achieve "plenty" of speed at fairly reasonable pressures.

"Cheers" to all of you.

HOw come I got so much grief? I dont mind the RUMs I just dont think they make much of a diff in killing power from their magnum counterparts (or 270 who ever that was that was wanting me to put that in again.) in fact if you look at the latest wsm,rum crazz it has realy brought about alot of new shooters. Though I wouldnt own some cartridges, every cartridge has its place as they have all contributed.

Brad
I think you are an Ultra Mag kind of guy you just don't realize it!
A 22 inch barreled .338 producing 2840 ish with a 225 is fairly hot if not a bit optomistic.
A 22 inch barreled 338-06 pushing a 225 grainer at 2700 is fairly warm as well.
I'm not trying to tell you that these loads are rediculous, they'r not, but you are matching pressures with my Ultra mag.
This kind of loading leads me to believe that you are a closet Ultra Mag man.

Come out of the closet Brad!!

Sorry I can't help myself
Jamie

Yea, I think a 308 or 30-06 is plenty for elk.

I myself just shoot the puny 300 wby mag. I usually have to end up tracking my deer 6 yards, and drag it out to the road myself.
The neighbor up the road has a RUM, and just by shot placement, he can make his deer fall to the left, or the right, or he can get the deer to run all the way back to the vehicle before it dies. He says that once in awhile, the deer just drops on the spot, but usually he gets them to die the way he wants them too though.
I envy him.
Trigger

Overbore...shmoverbore...check out my quote...(actually Elmer Kieth said it first).

Overloud, overbore, hell on barrels...I love it! My 7mm Ultra Sendero just keeps putting them in there. All 7mm progress did not stop with the 7mm mauser or 7mm Remington Magnum. There are always trade offs for performance. I don't see any of the Ultras as being "everyman's gun" but for certain applications they seem unbeatable at the price. I am certainly glad I bought mine and since I am a .338 fan will probably buy the .338 Ultra next. Good shooting to all!

JBD.
Buy them all!
Works for me.
Jamie

roger that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!