In my search fo a stainless steel rifle to hunt every thing from Elk to Antelope I was leaning toward a 7mm rem. mag. and while doing some reloading yesterday I can across the 280 Ackley improved. I'm going to run the numbers through some calulators today, but it looks like you get more engery and velocity with than the standard 280. While the 280 ia has less engery and velocity than the 7mag but also less recoil than the mag. Whats not to like about that? I like like the idea of more engery/velocity than the 280rem and less recoil than the 7rm. After spending 3 hours at the range yesterday with my 300 H&H less recoil is a good thing!

I did a search and read most of the 131 post on the subject. I know some of you, Savage 99, hates the improved round and most of the guys who have a 280 improved love it. Soo... why get the 280 improved over a 7mm rm? If you had to do it over again would you build the 280ai or just buy a 7mag?

Also the way I under stand it you could have a standard 280 rem rechambered to 280 ai, right?

I think I read this some where, can't you still shoot factory ammo in it? Say like if you got out west and the airlines lost our handloads. Couldn't I just buy some 280rem loads and shoot them?

I also read some where that a company was selling 280ai brass? I'm not sure the guy who posted it listed the company name. If so I didn't write it down. I do recall him saying you had to send them a round fired in you gun and then they would match it from there. Anybody know the company name and the cost of the brass?

[ 04-13-2003, 19:27: Message edited by: mark65x55 ]

Hey Mark, I think you are on to something. I have a std. .280 & really like it. Just over 7 1/4# ready to go & it rolls a 160grNP out @ just under 2900fps from a 23"bbl. It isn't my 1st choice for a big bull elk, but I haven't hesitated to hunt elk w/ it.
I like the 7mags, but in factory form, the 7remmag can be equaled w/ the .280AI in a lighter rifle. Frank N. has one & can probably chime in on some loads. I went w/ the .280rem because it is the only rifle I have that shoots a factory round?!
I understand that you can NOT use std. 280 in the AI, but someone who has one will know for sure. I't a handloaders round, but that's why you want it.

[ 04-13-2003, 20:35: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

I've spent this morning reading all I can find on the .280AI and fireforming seems to be the only draw-back I've read. You got an idea about case life? If you fireformed 100 rounds, which sounds like range time to me, and you could get 6 or 8 firings from each then thats 600 to 800 rounds. That'd last me a long time.

As to building this thing. I want to keep the total weight down to 8 pounds or a little less. I want a 24" barrel and fluted would be nice. I guess I'll use Talley rings, a Leupold 2.5-8x36 scope and a Bansner stock, painted by Rick.
What do you think as for as actions? I like Winchesters, but I know they are heavy. How about a Weatherby Vanguard action? I personal like it better than a Remington. How about the new MRC 99 action? Would the Vanguard make it easer to stay at or a little under 8 pounds?

Hi Mark, Hope I can help. I'm a big 28 caliber fan. They do work but so do other.
I have both 7mm Rem.Mag.and a 280 A.I. 40-degree shoulder angle. They each shoot very well. When I go hunting and the need for somethig like a 28 cal. is up for the task I generaly pick up the 280A.I.
To help on your questions,yes you can rechamber a 280 Rem. to a 280A.I. To have this done right they will have to turn your barrel back so you will have the right head space,
Yes you can shoot regular 280 ammo in your A.I.<its safe> That is what you do when you are fire-forming your brass.
If I was you I would not pursue the idea of buing brass. When you have your gun rechamberd to A.I. the chamber may very some. It would be best to fire form your own and set your reloading dies up to fit your brass.
I had my gun done by Mark Brown, at Brown Precision, Inc. in Los Molinos,CA His phone # is 530- 384- 2506, His web site is www,brownprecision.com/ They do good work.
If I can answer any more Questions you can e-mail me. rcoleconstruction@msn.com
Have a good day
Hammerdown.

I took an accurate Rem 700 that had a 26" Douglas and was originally .280 Rem and had it rechambered to the AI flavor this past year. As previously mentioned the Smith will turn the barrel back a thread when they rechamber.

I purchased a set of .280 AI dies from REDDING and they have worked very well. Very concentric bullet seating.

Fireforming is NO big deal. I used some cheap 145 gr bullets loaded with a relatively light load of IMR4895. Seat the bullets in a std .280 case well into the lands so that the case is snug against the bolt. This method yields a nicely done AI case. It was even accurate enough that I practiced shooting from field positions with these loads. NOT benchrest accurate but accurate enough.

I use both my .280's, the AI and my WBY Ultra Lt Wt in standard .280 Rem, as sort of dual purpose rifles,meaning deer/antelope and in a pinch elk. So I like to load a bullet that will work on both as I see elk when I hunt deer and vise versa.
I've used the 150 Nosler partition on all three species over the past several years with very good results.Plus used the 150's to take a few heads of African antelope too.

The heavier 160's and 175's are great bullets for the larger species too. I used 175's in RSA on a large black wildebeest and one shot went from end to end and did the job.

I get 3050 fps with 150's and 2950 fps with 160's in my AI. Maybe not 7mm MAG velocities but then again everything I've EVER shot with it has died, and rather quickly.

If I remember correctly the AI version has 8% more case capacity than a std .280 case. The formula is to cut the difference in half, so we have 4%. Multiply that by the std case velocity and you get a velocity boost of basically 120 fps in say a 3000 fps 140 gr load. Surely not earthshaking but +120 fps none the less.

I've surely not done an exhaustive test, but the AI cases DO seem to require very little trimming,compared to std .280 rem cases. So theoretically case life should be better.

Is the AI really worth doing?? Probably NOT. BUT...... It surely IS a sexy looking case. And as a certified Gun Loony, we HAVE to do stuff like this, its expected of us.

IMR 4831 and RL19/22 seem to work well with moost all bullets. IMR7828 really seems to be THE powder for 160's and 175's. In MY guns anyway.

FN in MT

I am a huge .280 Ackley fan. I've built and shot hundreds of them over the past 21 yrs. Having said that, the .280 Ack will not do anything that they 7mm Rem Mag won't do better. The difference in recoil is impossible for me to distinguish in the field or at the bench. The only reason to go with the .280 Ackley is just because you want one. And that can be a pretty good reason. the last three rifles I built for myself were .280 Ackley's, but only because the actions I ended up with were std. bolt face.

I ordered the Nosler #5 Manual last night, I understand it has more data in it than the #4.

After giving it some thought, I'm still a Winchester guy at heart and if I'm going to built a rifle it mite as well be on a action I like. I did some looking around last night and I can pick a push feed Winchester for around $300 or a stainless classic for $525. I leaning toward the push feed to keep the cost down. I think I can build a 8 pound Winchester and still have a 24" barrel. I brought a Winchester classic lt sporter (24" barrel, Rimrock stock, Warne rings, 3.5-10x40 Leupold) to work with me today so I can get one of lab guys to weigh it. I don"t think its much over 8 pounds, we'll see. I know the Bansner stock is lighter than the Rimrock, 4 oz+/-, the Talley Light Weight One-Piece Aluminum Scope Mounts are lighter than the Warnes and the 2.5-8x36 Leupold is lighter than the 3.5-10x40. But again I'll get it weighed today and we'll see.

One the other hand being a cheap ba#$@%d I wouldn't pass up a smoking deal on one somebody was selling Even if it was a Remington. Wellllllll it'd have to be one hellva deal mind you

Mark65x55,

Not trying to talk out of an 280AI, if you want one go for it.

But, using the Nosler #5 as a guide, for the 160 grain Partition, as an example; consider the following:

Best velocities with 160 grain Nosler Partition.

BC .475 SD .283

7mm-08 = 2780 FPS max 47.5 grains Reloader 19
280 Rem = 2942 FPS max 58.5 grains IMR7828
280 AI = 2962 FPS max 60.0 grains IMR7828
7mm Rem Mag = 3112 FPS max 79.5 H870

Now using the ballistic tables, rounding to the nearest 100 FPS and Zeroing all @ 200 yards we get:

7mm08 +1.8" high @100 -7.8" low @300
280Rem +1.6" high @100 -7.1" low @300
280AI +1.5" high @100 -6.5" low @300
7mmRemMag +1.3" high @100 -6.1"low @300

A 280Rem, 280AI and 7mm mag will all weigh the same, if you are building them from scratch, no matter what action they are put in.

A 7mm-08 could weigh a 1/4 to a 1/2 pound lighter at the cost of -1.7" @ 300 yds.

With standard calibers you do not have to fireform, dies are cheaper and you do not suffer the cost of trying to sell a wildcat, if you change your mind later.

If your heart is set on a 280AI, like I said go for it. But being unique does not put more meat in the cooler, just empties the bank account a might faster.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Regards,

Bob

"But being unique does not put more meat in the cooler, just empties the bank account a might faster."

Amen Brother!!!!! Thats so true.

Mark65x55 - You received some very good advice regarding the 280 Ack Imp from Hammerdown and FrankNowakowski. I have both 7mm Rem Mag and 280 Ack Imp. Strange, every time I go out (Arkansas & Texas whitetails) I have the 280 A I in my hand.
It has much less recoil, is very easy to reload & I have found good results with RL-22 and Nosler 140 BT. Using my Oehler 35P best load turns up 3,102 fps with 0.3� five shot group; 3,206 for 0.7�. While we are on the subject, does anyone have any experience with VihtaVuori N560 and 140 & 150 gr bullets?

SilverSam, I have extensive testing with N165 and with stellar results. I use 63.5 gr. with the 140 Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3206 fps. the 5 shot groups are between .6" and down to the mid .4" this is out of a 24 3/4" Hart barrel, .010" off the lands. Give her a whirl.

Not to be pragmatic or anything but have you considered either of the two new short-magnums?

Why yes I have Bill. I've looked a the 7mm wsm load data. Then looked at it some more. I even went to the store to look at a model 70 ss, they didn't have one. They did have the ammo. I guess I'm just too old school, I know from looking at the load data the 7mm wsm will do more than the 280ai, without fire forming the cases, but I just can't make myself want to buy one.

Mark,
Sent you an email about a 280AI I have you may be interested in.

Matt,
Emailed you back. Lets talk.
Mark

Thanks Tim in TENN

I'm working up loads with n560 now. Will keep you posted.

Hi,

I looking for .280AI loadingdata with Norma or Vithavuori powder.
As some of you now I have a swedish .280Rem site and now I will expand with more about .280AI.

Thanks!