My budget is such that I can either buy a new stainless Vanguard or a used, blued 700 BDL synthetic DM for about the same price. The BDL has a lousy trigger compared to the Vanguard. Other than that, they both feel good. Since I have never owned either before, is one better than the other, all else being equal?

The Weatherby will immediatedly depreciate in value while the used BDL will always be worth somewhere near what you paid. If resale isn't an issue, buy the one you think looks the best.

The new WBY Vanguards come with a factory target...and they shoot!

Nothing against the Vanguard; he was comparing a new gun which will drop in value when he walks out the door to an already used gun which has depreciated all that it should if he bought wisely. I'm simply saying that you can't go to WalMart and buy a Vanguard and then expect to get exactly what you paid for it later. (Unless you find someone who just doesn't know they can get a brand new one for the same money but no one on AR would do that, would they?)

I have shot the vanguard rifle w/ factory rounds and I got disappointing accuracy. I was sighting the rifle for a friend so, I didnt have the chance to work up a good hand load.

I will say that I have never shot a Rem model 700 that wasn't a "Tack Driver." I have shot piles of Mod 700s and every one of them has shot factory rounds great and handloads even better.

I can usually get around .75" 100 yard groups w/ factory ammo in a Model 700.

I know I shouldn't compare one gun to many but, It sure is funny that none of those 700s wouldn't shoot and My first experience w/ a vangaurd was bad.

I would defintely go the Model 700 route.

Good Luck on your rifle hunt!

Reloader

I was a big Remington fan for years, no longer. When they fire a few bean counters and lawyers and rebuild their quality control department I'll return, not before. Most of my rifles are Remington Varmints and BDL's. My last 3 have had to be glass bedded, barrel floated and trigger changed. This adds about $200. to the cost of the rifle. I want new rifles, not kits which in effect they've become.
CZ and Tikka are stealing Remingtons thunder. It took me a long time to come around to this view, and it's not meant to offend anyone. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Have 2--7 Wby Van. mags one bought in 88 and the other a Wally special got in 94. Both are good shooter's, just changed the cheap butler stock and the later on. The boy also has the Smith and Wesson 1500 action also made by Howa in a -06.

For got to mention that customer service is great at Wby and does not give you all the hassel that Remington can and does from time to time

Vanguard. The workmanship is much better.

Simple and easy answer to this question. Go with the company that has a Customer Service department and backs their product. Also helps to go with the company that gives you a WRITTEN accuracy guarantee along with a sample target to show how the firearm shoots.

Remington does not meet any of these standards plus I can give you five reasons why not to buy a Remington,

1.] hideous safety

2.] brazed on bolt handle

3.] declining quality control

4.] non existent customer service

5.] a trigger group made from stamped metal

Do yourself a favor and go with the Weatherby. You will not regret it. Lawdog

My son in law just picked up a new Vanguard . I like it better than any of the Remingtons I have seen lately , hands down ..........

Amd now your choice is clear as muddy water, eh?

Well, I am probably going to stir up the shit here, but I would not have a Vanguard for free! There were a lot of my friends who bought those things years ago and they ALL got rid of those junk rifles.

I like honest to GOD Weatherby rifles, as in the Mark Five's, but the Vanguards are junk in my opinion. Why Weatherby still sells them is beyond me.

If the Remington in question has a poor trigger, at least it can be adjusted.

I am serious, I would not consider buying a Vanguard. They are poorly made in Japan. (The same old Howa junk)

I admit, Remington has suffered some quality issues as of late, but you know what, so have a lot of other companies.

I recently spent a good deal of time with a Kimber 84M in 22-250. I found it to be a much over rated firearm. Poor feeding, the bolt felt like it was riding on sandpaper, the trigger could not be adjusted below 3 pounds, the darned thing would seldom shoot under 1.5 inches with ANY darned load. I was not impressed.

I currently own a brand new Winchester Model 70 chambered in 223 WSSM that is an absolute piece of junk. Model 70's used to be great rifles. This one would not reliably hit a pickup at more than 300 yards!!

So, for my money, buy the Remington.

I admit that the brazed on bolt handle sometimes gives problems. I do not know why anyone would think the safety was not as good as any other. The triggers are adjustable by anyone with any brains. And mostly, they shoot!

Forget that Vanguard!

R F

Hey everyone, thanks for your opinions. And yes tiggertate, the waters are a bit muddy after reading this info

I would buy the Vanguard based on the extractor, alone. It's a SAKO-type extractor, and it leaves that bent paperclip Remington calls an extractor far, far behind.

Not to mention that it comes standard with a 24"-barrel and a target from the factory.

The Howa 1500/S&W/Vanguard rifles are simply a superior design when it comes to a push-feed rifle. That assessment is based on the reasons listed above, as well as what is arguably a much more reliable trigger and safety than the Remingtons have.

From my vantage point, it's a no-brainer: buy the Vanguard. That's coming from a man who buys guns to shoot/hunt with, not to re-sell. And, even if I were planning on re-selling it, the Vanguard would still get the nod.

RSY

remington all the way. I will not dispute the benefit of some design changes which are due the Vanguard,..but as far as out of the box accuracy goes, and the fact that any gunsmith worth their salt can completely blueprint a 700 action for ~$200+/-, I still say 700rem. Far more aftermarket options....

Gentlemen,

If I was to buy a new rifle today between a 700 and a Vanguard, it would be the Vanguard without question. I know a number of people (including my father) who use them with great success. I have shot my father's rifle a lot, and it has been very accurate and easy to load for.

Most recent 700 purchasers that I know have been disappointed with the quality.

An old 700 in good shape would be an excellent rifle though

Just my opinion...

Joel -

What do you consider to be an "old" 700?

Alan,

I'd probably say one from the 80's or earlier. Most of the older production ones that I have handled seem to have excellent fit and finish.

I'm not an expert on M700's at all. I've just been around the ones that my friends and colleagues have.

Thanks Joel.

I would also buy the Vanguard. I have one of the heavy barrel varmit rifles in .223 and love it. The Mark V's made by HOWA were excellent rifles. They might be the best Mark V's. I think they are better made than the American made Mark V Ultra Light I had.
The HOWA 1500 actioned triggers are adjustable, Sako style extracter, 24" barrel, excellent accuracy. I don't think you would go wrong in your purchase.